Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Race Radio]

no fanboy here and not sure what is said behind closed doors, but since the fall from grace LA hardly mentions her, if at all, in any of the interviews he's done. if you go to betsys facebook page its post after post about how LA is the worst human being to ever exist on the planet. the comments are even worse, equating him to murderers & rapists. not much perspective from the betsy fanboys.

Huh? Did you read Juliet Macur's book? The interviews with her hometown newspaper? There are also lots of "Off the record" comments to reporters designed to smear her.

I have not checked out her facebook page but completely agree about how some weirdos take it way to far.

 

[the sceptic]

no fanboy here and not sure what is said behind closed doors, but since the fall from grace LA hardly mentions her, if at all, in any of the interviews he's done. if you go to betsys facebook page its post after post about how LA is the worst human being to ever exist on the planet. the comments are even worse, equating him to murderers & rapists. not much perspective from the betsy fanboys.

Yeah im sure people can make up their own mind about this stuff now. We dont need Besty to remind us how evil and how much of a liar Lance is all the time.

Ironically she is the one that comes across as the most agressive of the two now.

 

[Bluenote]

From what I see, Ms. Andreu is trying to be an advocate for clean sport.

She's spoken at panels, given interviews on clean sport. She's talked some about the health aspects, or how the risks impact a family. Unfortunately, those efforts don't get widely reported, so people paint her as fixated on Armstrong.

But part of her story is about omerta. About the impacts on their family for speaking up. Omerta was Armstrong, but it was lots of other people - many still active in cycling. She's certainly called out others for their role in omerta.

The way I see it, Ms. Andreu doesn't need to get over it until omerta is dead and people understand the risks from doping. Until then, I hope she keeps fighting.

 

[DirtyWorks]

From what I see, Ms. Andreu is trying to be an advocate for clean sport.

She's spoken at panels, given interviews on clean sport. She's talked some about the health aspects, or how the risks impact a family. Unfortunately, those efforts don't get widely reported, so people paint her as fixated on Armstrong.

But part of her story is about omerta. About the impacts on their family for speaking up. Omerta was Armstrong, but it was lots of other people - many still active in cycling. She's certainly called out others for their role in omerta.

The way I see it, Ms. Andreu doesn't need to get over it until omerta is dead and people understand the risks from doping. Until then, I hope she keeps fighting.

+1

Sometimes, I think some conveniently forget how much Wonderboy pursued her and Frankie. I don't want to rehash the whole thing but, the Andreau's were ridiculously overpowered by Wonderboy and various bad actors. The phrase "bringing a knife to a gun fight" is appropriate.

To this day Wonderboy is still trying to discredit them.

 

[Benotti69]

no fanboy here and not sure what is said behind closed doors, but since the fall from grace LA hardly mentions her, if at all, in any of the interviews he's done. if you go to betsys facebook page its post after post about how LA is the worst human being to ever exist on the planet. the comments are even worse, equating him to murderers & rapists. not much perspective from the betsy fanboys.

Betsy uses facebook, so what. Armstrong has big media outlets letting him put forth his view unchallenged.

La is one of the worst sportsmen on the planet and we are talking in the sporting world.

Why mention rapists & murderers?

 

[Benotti69]

Yeah im sure people can make up their own mind about this stuff now. We dont need Besty to remind us how evil and how much of a liar Lance is all the time.

Ironically she is the one that comes across as the most agressive of the two now.

Man you way off, way off.

 

[juanito]

Huh? Did you read Juliet Macur's book? The interviews with her hometown newspaper? There are also lots of "Off the record" comments to reporters designed to smear her.

I did read all of that but one angry statement in Cycle of Lies and a weird interview GH gave the hometown paper is far from a "campaign" IMHO. Curious to know what the "off the record" stuff is because the on the record stuff coming from LA does not seem to be a smear campaign. Its one thing to not be sorry, which he does not appear to be and its fair to judge him on that, but it's another thing to be running a smear campaign - which I am not picking up in his statements since the fallout.

Another thing, are these interviews a sign that things are looking good for him in the Feds case? Author of Wheelman seemed to think so. Previous posts on here made me think it was open & shut for the feds.

 

[Oldman]

I did read all of that but one angry statement in Cycle of Lies and a weird interview GH gave the hometown paper is far from a "campaign" IMHO. Curious to know what the "off the record" stuff is because the on the record stuff coming from LA does not seem to be a smear campaign. Its one thing to not be sorry, which he does not appear to be and its fair to judge him on that, but it's another thing to be running a smear campaign - which I am not picking up in his statements since the fallout.

Another thing, are these interviews a sign that things are looking good for him in the Feds case? Author of Wheelman seemed to think so. Previous posts on here made me think it was open & shut for the feds.

I would think any PR campaign he participates in indicates things are not going well for him. At least his immediate history shows that any effort to improve his public persona is directly related to a perceived opportunity. Spin about a new cancer "charity", etc. are usually just that, spin.

 

[MarkvW]

At this point in time, now that, Lance no longer has the power he once had, the squabbling with the Andrews and LeMond is just amusement...like the National Enquirer or People Magazine.

 

[JRTinMA]

From what I see, Ms. Andreu is trying to be an advocate for clean sport.

She's spoken at panels, given interviews on clean sport. She's talked some about the health aspects, or how the risks impact a family. Unfortunately, those efforts don't get widely reported, so people paint her as fixated on Armstrong.

But part of her story is about omerta. About the impacts on their family for speaking up. Omerta was Armstrong, but it was lots of other people - many still active in cycling. She's certainly called out others for their role in omerta.

The way I see it, Ms. Andreu doesn't need to get over it until omerta is dead and people understand the risks from doping. Until then, I hope she keeps fighting.

She never cared about a clean sport, she a had one singular goal, to get Armstrong. Sure she dropped the clean sport BS once or twice to make it look like her obsession was greater than just Lance. LeMond was the same way, get LA at all cost, clean sport meant nothing to him either. Look at him praise Pantani and suck up to Vino. Its cool they got their story out, but you're foolish if you think it was any bigger than getting their man.

 

[the sceptic]

She never cared about a clean sport, she a had one singular goal, to get Armstrong. Sure she dropped the clean sport BS once or twice to make it look like her obsession was greater than just Lance. LeMond was the same way, get LA at all cost, clean sport meant nothing to him either. Look at him praise Pantani and suck up to Vino. Its cool they got their story out, but you're foolish if you think it was any bigger than getting their man.

I dont blame any of them for hating Lance, I would too. But yeah I doubt any of them really care about clean cycling. Same goes for Walsh obviously.

 

[BroDeal]

She never cared about a clean sport, she a had one singular goal, to get Armstrong. Sure she dropped the clean sport BS once or twice to make it look like her obsession was greater than just Lance. LeMond was the same way, get LA at all cost, clean sport meant nothing to him either. Look at him praise Pantani and suck up to Vino. Its cool they got their story out, but you're foolish if you think it was any bigger than getting their man.

This.

It is ironic how people who were so upset about being labeled by Armstrong
have spent years proving that Armstrong made the right call. Many who
used charges of doping to tar their foes are now exposed as obsessed axe
grinders. It was never about doping. On this very forum, which was built
on years of arguing for the prevalence of doping in the European peloton,
they now deny doping's extent because it might lessen the culpability of
one rider. They would prefer to live in a phantasmagorical reality where
a few riders condemning themselves to stay in the U.S. would have changed
the fates of their mythical clean riders, as though the places for those who
stayed home would not have been filled by the thousands of eager amateurs
who were not only willing to do what was necessary to race in the big
leagues but had already started.

It has been a seemy exercise in human duplicity. Remember the fanboys who
would prefix a post with a denial about being a fan? The other side of the
coin has been revealed. It is haters denying they hate Armstrong. It has
reached a risible point where they now claim they care about him and hope
he gets help. This of course is often done in the same post used to attack
any teammate or friend who has presented a more nuanced explanation of
what went into the decisions that were made. Those who have been lauded
as heroes of the revolution get an ice pick to the head if they, after the
better part of two decades have gone by, reconcile. Those traitors are put
on the Andreu Strategies enemies list, and the call goes out the interns to
attack them at every turn.

This Armstrong affair could have been the catharsis to change the sport,
to admit its past and transition to a better future. Instead it has been
the dawning of a new omerta. The demonization of Armstrong's doping is
an extension and reinforcement of the scapegoat policy that was used to
cover up the sport's systemic doping. Those who promote the division of
riders into good dopers and bad dopers are now part of the problem. They
are far more toxic than a pro making a dumb tweet or a UCI apparatchik
telling the prols we are in a new era.

 

[JRTinMA]

This.

It is ironic how people who were so upset about being labeled by Armstrong
have spent years proving that Armstrong made the right call. Many who
used charges of doping to tar their foes are now exposed as obsessed axe
grinders. It was never about doping. On this very forum, which was built
on years of arguing for the prevalence of doping in the European peloton,
they now deny doping's extent because it might lessen the culpability of
one rider. They would prefer to live in a phantasmagorical reality where
a few riders condemning themselves to stay in the U.S. would have changed
the fates of their mythical clean riders, as though the places for those who
stayed home would not have been filled by the thousands of eager amateurs
who were not only willing to do what was necessary to race in the big
leagues but had already started.

It has been a seemy exercise in human duplicity. Remember the fanboys who
would prefix a post with a denial about being a fan? The other side of the
coin has been revealed. It is haters denying they hate Armstrong. It has
reached a risible point where they now claim they care about him and hope
he gets help. This of course is often done in the same post used to attack
any teammate or friend who has presented a more nuanced explanation of
what went into the decisions that were made. Those who have been lauded
as heroes of the revolution get an ice pick to the head if they, after the
better part of two decades have gone by, reconcile. Those traitors are put
on the Andreu Strategies enemies list, and the call goes out the interns to
attack them at every turn.

This Armstrong affair could have been the catharsis to change the sport,
to admit its past and transition to a better future. Instead it has been
the dawning of a new omerta. The demonization of Armstrong's doping is
an extension and reinforcement of the scapegoat policy that was used to
cover up the sport's systemic doping. Those who promote the division of
riders into good dopers and bad dopers are now part of the problem. They
are far more toxic than a pro making a dumb tweet or a UCI apparatchik
telling the prols we are in a new era.

****ing good post Bro! This should be in the clinic hall of fame.

 

[the sceptic]

****ing good post Bro! This should be in the clinic hall of fame.

+1. brodeal should post more.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

+1. brodeal should post more.

Nah I like it when he posts less, but puts more time and energy into constructing his thoughts, as in this post.

Less chance of getting sucked into ongoing arguments. More like a sniper than a grunt kinda thing, if you catch my meaning.

Either way, agreed. Good post, Brodeal.

 

[Race Radio]

It used to be entertaining to watch a handful of posters drive the Armstrong fanboys crazy by baiting them, but now we realize that many of those posters didn't hate Lance, or doping, or even love the sport.....they just love conflict.

Elaborate conspiracy theories, paranoid obsessions, baiting, twisting, inventing. Anything to provoke a response. Armstrong just provided momentary fuel for their obsession for conflict, once they used him up they eagerly search for anything that can help fill that hole.

 

[thehog]

I dont blame any of them for hating Lance, I would too. But yeah I doubt any of them really care about clean cycling. Same goes for Walsh obviously.

I thought it was Sheryl Crowe's job to clean up cycling?

I guess the irony for me is Emma O'Reilly. As soon as she decided to deal with personal pain in her own way she was labeled "unstable" and may have "mental issues".

The irony being is that is what Armstrong would do. Label people as soon as they didn't tow the party line and talking points.

It's a mere observation, that is all.

 

[MonkeyFace]

This.

It is ironic how people who were so upset about being labeled by Armstrong
have spent years proving that Armstrong made the right call. Many who
used charges of doping to tar their foes are now exposed as obsessed axe
grinders. It was never about doping. On this very forum, which was built
on years of arguing for the prevalence of doping in the European peloton,
they now deny doping's extent because it might lessen the culpability of
one rider. They would prefer to live in a phantasmagorical reality where
a few riders condemning themselves to stay in the U.S. would have changed
the fates of their mythical clean riders, as though the places for those who
stayed home would not have been filled by the thousands of eager amateurs
who were not only willing to do what was necessary to race in the big
leagues but had already started.

It has been a seemy exercise in human duplicity. Remember the fanboys who
would prefix a post with a denial about being a fan? The other side of the
coin has been revealed. It is haters denying they hate Armstrong. It has
reached a risible point where they now claim they care about him and hope
he gets help. This of course is often done in the same post used to attack
any teammate or friend who has presented a more nuanced explanation of
what went into the decisions that were made. Those who have been lauded
as heroes of the revolution get an ice pick to the head if they, after the
better part of two decades have gone by, reconcile. Those traitors are put
on the Andreu Strategies enemies list, and the call goes out the interns to
attack them at every turn.

This Armstrong affair could have been the catharsis to change the sport,
to admit its past and transition to a better future. Instead it has been
the dawning of a new omerta. The demonization of Armstrong's doping is
an extension and reinforcement of the scapegoat policy that was used to
cover up the sport's systemic doping. Those who promote the division of
riders into good dopers and bad dopers are now part of the problem. They
are far more toxic than a pro making a dumb tweet or a UCI apparatchik
telling the prols we are in a new era.

Demonetization? What other rider forced riders out of the peloton? Committed perjury? Insurance fraud? Bribed officials? Witness intimidation? Lobbied government officials to dismantal the organization that was investigating him? Ruined another riders bicycling company? Demonized other former teammates that tested positive? Turned the clock on any progress following the Festina affair? He is different than any other doper. Who else had such a close connection with Hein

 

[Alpe73]

This.

It is ironic how people who were so upset about being labeled by Armstrong
have spent years proving that Armstrong made the right call. Many who
used charges of doping to tar their foes are now exposed as obsessed axe
grinders. It was never about doping. On this very forum, which was built
on years of arguing for the prevalence of doping in the European peloton,
they now deny doping's extent because it might lessen the culpability of
one rider. They would prefer to live in a phantasmagorical reality where
a few riders condemning themselves to stay in the U.S. would have changed
the fates of their mythical clean riders, as though the places for those who
stayed home would not have been filled by the thousands of eager amateurs
who were not only willing to do what was necessary to race in the big
leagues but had already started.

It has been a seemy exercise in human duplicity. Remember the fanboys who
would prefix a post with a denial about being a fan? The other side of the
coin has been revealed. It is haters denying they hate Armstrong. It has
reached a risible point where they now claim they care about him and hope
he gets help. This of course is often done in the same post used to attack
any teammate or friend who has presented a more nuanced explanation of
what went into the decisions that were made. Those who have been lauded
as heroes of the revolution get an ice pick to the head if they, after the
better part of two decades have gone by, reconcile. Those traitors are put
on the Andreu Strategies enemies list, and the call goes out the interns to
attack them at every turn.

This Armstrong affair could have been the catharsis to change the sport,
to admit its past and transition to a better future. Instead it has been
the dawning of a new omerta. The demonization of Armstrong's doping is
an extension and reinforcement of the scapegoat policy that was used to
cover up the sport's systemic doping. Those who promote the division of
riders into good dopers and bad dopers are now part of the problem. They
are far more toxic than a pro making a dumb tweet or a UCI apparatchik
telling the prols we are in a new era.

The demonization of Armstrong is a multimillion dollar machine ... constantly seeking out new angles to extend its shelf life. As marketing campaigns go, it attracts a good number of fanboys (haters) ... from influential journalists to shut-in chatters to perpetuate the demon narrative.Your post BroDeal is better than most I've read on here for mapping out middle ground terrain.

 

[Bluenote]

She never cared about a clean sport, she a had one singular goal, to get Armstrong. Sure she dropped the clean sport BS once or twice to make it look like her obsession was greater than just Lance. LeMond was the same way, get LA at all cost, clean sport meant nothing to him either. Look at him praise Pantani and suck up to Vino. Its cool they got their story out, but you're foolish if you think it was any bigger than getting their man.

Really, so why does she travel across the country doing panels on clean sport? Why does she post articles discussing the health risks of doping?

You're entitled to your own opinion - RE: her motivation. However, you are not entitled to your own facts. She is more active then just 'dropping the clean sport BS once or twice.'

If she didn't care about clean sport, why was she so adamant that Frankie compete clean? I'd call that pretty literally 'putting her money where her mouth is.'

 

[MarkvW]

The demonization of Armstrong is a multimillion dollar machine ... constantly seeking out new angles to extend its shelf life. As marketing campaigns go, it attracts a good number of fanboys (haters) ... from influential journalists to shut-in chatters to perpetuate the demon narrative.Your post BroDeal is better than most I've read on here for mapping out middle ground terrain.

It's ALL about marketing. The media milked Lance's rise. Now, they're milking his fall. When the time comes, it will milk his redemption.

 

[hfer07]

She never cared about a clean sport, she a had one singular goal, to get Armstrong. Sure she dropped the clean sport BS once or twice to make it look like her obsession was greater than just Lance. LeMond was the same way, get LA at all cost, clean sport meant nothing to him either. Look at him praise Pantani and suck up to Vino. Its cool they got their story out, but you're foolish if you think it was any bigger than getting their man.

First bold part: but that's been clear and evident since day one-her battle was and is personal & I have not heard otherwise. LA's attacks on Betsy were direct & personal, so she responded equally, so quite honestly I do not question her reaction a single bit, after getting trashed the way they both did by the LA machinery. As far as she being an advocate for clean sport? She didn't need to since she isn't the athlete involved in the sport-she happened to be affected by the dark side of the sport through her husband's own experience.

Second bold part: It was "disgusting" to watch Lemond on ES this past Tour talking wonders about people he once singled out as dopers & destroyers of the sport, shaking hands here & there and playing the field after all the speeches & pledges done publicly & how "bolt & determine" was his views for clean cycling. Although- I believe he was "asked" by the Organizers to never mention doping on the broadcasting & while engaging interviews, what bothers me is the "true Character" that is displayed when TV money & contracts are at stake-because Lemond is doing this for the cash and a way to secure his pension/retirement after all the lawsuits & BS he dealt with over a decade...... but then again-those actions expose the very core of what people truly stand for...... Walsh is in the same bus nowadays: got the most of the Armstrong chapter & after facing all the financial burdens inherited to those battles, he openly decided to change his mindset & get the income earned by looking the other way.....


the only authentic/real/truly Hero of the Armstrong's Tyrannical tale was, is and will be CHRISTOPHE BASSONS

 

[Race Radio]

Really, so why does she travel across the country doing panels on clean sport?

Didn't you hear?

The demonization of Armstrong is a multimillion dollar machine

Betsy is rolling in it. Making millions. Didn't she buy Lance's jet?

 

[JRTinMA]

Didn't you hear?



Betsy is rolling in it. Making millions. Didn't she buy Lance's jet?

Protecting the myth daily. Good work RR.

 

[Alpe73]

Betsy is rolling in it.

A housewife hero is something to be .... and a boon for frame rate.