Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[thehog]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

I guess Armstrong must be lying about Och as well?

Paul Scott [a member of Landis’ legal team]: Did anybody offer to pay any money on your behalf to any member of the Coors Light cycling team to allow you to win any stage of that race?

Armstrong: I believe that Jim Ochowicz, perhaps Phil Anderson, negotiated some package with Coors Light.

Scott: And how is it that you believe that Jim Ochowicz did that?

Armstrong: Because I heard that.

Scott: From whom?

Armstrong: From those guys. From Jim.

Scott: Jim Ochowicz told you he negotiated a deal?

Armstrong: Yeah. And Phil Anderson.

Scott: And Phil Anderson. For them basically to not compete at their strongest level and allow you to win the race; is that right?

Armstrong: No. Well —

Sharif Jacob [a member of Armstrong’s legal team]: Calls for speculation.

Armstrong: — I don’t know if they competed — I don’t think they threw the race, but I don’t know — I was so new to the sport, and that side of the sport was so new to me, I wasn’t very clear on how that worked.

Reached by email this week, Ochowicz denied any knowledge of the deal. “I never heard anything about Coors Light,” he said. “Anything I have heard about this came way after the fact. I heard about this like everybody else. I had nothing to do with anything related to Coors Light.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/10/news/armstrong-names-ochowitz-in-93-race-fixing_388118#boqVs4RDDK5vR0lE.99

 

[D-Queued]

Re: Re:

...
Is this you telling me that I'm trolling Betsy? WOW I have read just about a tone of crap but if that is your post or contention then I truly don't get you at all. I'm part of the last page and as you put it I have wasted bandwidth with crap to discredit Betsy which I think you are full of crap with that line of thought.

I read these last pages and at first I thought this was over some type of facebook message or twittt from Lance. It is not and it is a bit ironic that you guys who self serve each other are on here calling people out. That was just my opinion.

Sigh.

No. No, I am not accusing you of trolling Betsy.

You appeared to have been accusing me, and others, of accusing some posters of being Lance. I was clarifying that I wasn't attempting to call anyone out and certainly not trying to suggest that DM is/was Lance.

Peace between us?

For the larger readership: This is the Lance thread, not the Betsy thread. Given the topic, and the lies being forwarded that are off-topic, there does appear to be some strong trolling effort being pursued.

So what really happened recently?

Some journo approached Betsy over another obvious Lance lie. One that involved her husband.

Some folks posting here aspire to twist that such that Betsy must be calling all journos constantly as, according to DamianoMachiavelli, "Betsy does it because her whole life... is about prosecuting her grudge against Lance"

This is a very clear lie. Surrounded by all of the other lies, it can't be anything less than concerted trolling and serious ad hominem.

It is impossible that anyone's whole life would be dedicated to a single cause. Setting aside the question of who else are the journos going to call, Stephanie McIlvain (?), it is also obvious that Betsy would be sought out where Frankie has been maligned by Lance. Any respectable journalist would want a 'balanced' story.

Imagine the sequence. Lance just said some sh*t about Frankie. That sh*t being an obvious lie while under oath. Some journos boss probably ok'd or told someone to do a story on that. Doing that story requires insight from the Andreus. So, the journo calls Betsy to see if she wants to comment... Betsy says ok even though she just said no to about a dozen others... while she tries to get her kids off to school and/or do the many other things that form the majority of her day and her whole life (sic)...

It should also not require any insight whatsoever to grasp that Betsy likely receives many, many requests from many, many journalists looking for more insight into what has been, and continues to be, a big story. When that story veers in the direction of the Andreus, then those journos aren't doing there job if they don't try and get 'the other side' of the story.

But, DamianoMachiavelli is obviously not Lance. Lance wouldn't fabricate lies as stupid as the lies that DamianoMachiavelli insists on pursuing - even after being called out on them.

Dave.

 

[thehog]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

And finally Frankie admits to his career long use of cortisone... Frankie is smearing himself

“I joined 7-Eleven in 1984 and raced in Europe and used cortisone after bad crashes as well as was given it by a team doctor before a couple races, but I was 29 when I first took EPO. Then I was out of the sport at 32,” Andreu told Cyclingnews.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/andreu-armstrong-is-just-in-attack-mode/

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/andreu-armstrong-is-just-in-attack-mode/

I realise that even asking this question makes me an Armstrong apologist and Betsy hater, but - even correcting for the errors in Andreu's dates - is Andreu now saying that he used cortisone for the majority of his career? That - I'm sorry, but there's no other way to phrase this - he doped for the majority of his career?

(As I said earlier, some people believe it's only doping if it's oxygen vector doping, while some people believe it's doping if it's doping.)

 

[thehog]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/andreu-armstrong-is-just-in-attack-mode/

I realise that even asking this question makes me an Armstrong apologist and Betsy hater, but - even correcting for the errors in Andreu's dates - is Andreu now saying that he used cortisone for the majority of his career? That - I'm sorry, but there's no other way to phrase this - he doped for the majority of his career?

(As I said earlier, some people believe it's only doping if it's oxygen vector doping, while some people believe it's doping if it's doping.)

FA is being very careful with his words and likes to mention "I started EPO in..", as all that matters is EPO.

Bottom line is he was using Cortisone before Lance was using it! You couldn't make this stuff up...

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

FA is being very careful with his words and likes to mention "I started EPO in..", as all that matters is EPO.

Frankie says "doping a lot or a little is wrong." But seems to be implying that only doping with EPO is doping, doping with cortisone is not doping.

Bottom line is he was using Cortisone before Lance was using it!

To be fair, we don't know when LA started using cortisone. He's kept the lips zipped on that one. I guess he's not yet ready to throw Chris Carmichael under the bus, even as the wheels squish Jim Ochowicz.

 

[chiocciolis_calves]

This long ago stopped being about "Lance" and more about the perpetually aggrieved and the crusading zealots. Out of all the folks who have cashed in on this to some degree, only Hamilton seems to have some rational perspective. This country has spent less far less time and resources on dozens of serial killers than this turkey.

 

[chiocciolis_calves]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/andreu-armstrong-is-just-in-attack-mode/

I realise that even asking this question makes me an Armstrong apologist and Betsy hater, but - even correcting for the errors in Andreu's dates - is Andreu now saying that he used cortisone for the majority of his career? That - I'm sorry, but there's no other way to phrase this - he doped for the majority of his career?

(As I said earlier, some people believe it's only doping if it's oxygen vector doping, while some people believe it's doping if it's doping.)

Yes, that is what he's saying. It's a variation on the defense used by the very folks he and others have assailed.

 

[thehog]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

FA is being very careful with his words and likes to mention "I started EPO in..", as all that matters is EPO.

Frankie says "doping a lot or a little is wrong." But seems to be implying that only doping with EPO is doping, doping with cortisone is not doping.

Bottom line is he was using Cortisone before Lance was using it!

To be fair, we don't know when LA started using cortisone. He's kept the lips zipped on that one. I guess he's not yet ready to throw Chris Carmichael under the bus, even as the wheels squish Jim Ochowicz.

I think its coming down to the fact that when Frankie was a single guy living the dream, doping was fine by him. Career long use of Cortisone, kept EPO in his fridge, he showed Hincapie how to dope etc. The shift came when he got married and he got busted by his wife then he had to stop doping as she would have left him.

Not sure how that comes down to Lance when the choice was made long before to dope.

From memory Swart also named Frankie as the organizer of the million dollar heist at the Coors Classic did he not? (edit: Confirmed on Twitter its in 7DS).

Again, you couldn't make this stuff up... its actually pure comedy

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

From memory Swart also named Frankie as the organizer of the million dollar heist at the Coors Classic did he not? (edit: Confirmed on Twitter its in 7DS).

Me, I woinder if everyone's not just telling porkies about the Philly heist, talking it up cause it's such a great story. I mean, that was 1994 and only the year before Verbruggen had told the sports' world that race fixing was a problem of the past:

As you know, cycling was confronted with two great scourges: fixing and doping. Fixing has disappeared. It is always possible for interests to coincide during a race, but that’s as far as it goes. And doping? It is a question of education. We are fighting it hard. We hunt it down among the young. It has greatly decreased. But to change attitudes will take years.

I know whose word I'd trust...

 

[racing_like_scalded_cats]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

I am a longtime fan of Frankie. But, if he was on junk most of his career he wasn't taking it right. Lance is and will always be a liar who's word is of no value. I remember when Lance used to refer to Floyd as a serial perjurer. That is all you need to know about Lance Gunderson.

 

[thehog]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

I am a longtime fan of Frankie. But, if he was on junk most of his career he wasn't taking it right. Lance is and will always be a liar who's word is of no value. I remember when Lance used to refer to Floyd as a serial perjurer. That is all you need to know about Lance Gunderson.

They all doped you know...

I don't know why some want to hold onto some value that one doper somehow is a more virtuous doper than the other. BA and few others were quoted on this very forum as saying Frankie never doped until he meant Lance. That clearly wasn't true. Again it's another case whereby some want their version of the truth to be THE truth.

His USADA statement makes no mention of the cortisone, so again it was clearly BS as well and a Tygart special to get his name out there;

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Andreu+Frankie+Affidavit.pdf

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/andreu-armstrong-is-just-in-attack-mode/

I realise that even asking this question makes me an Armstrong apologist and Betsy hater, but - even correcting for the errors in Andreu's dates - is Andreu now saying that he used cortisone for the majority of his career? That - I'm sorry, but there's no other way to phrase this - he doped for the majority of his career?

(As I said earlier, some people believe it's only doping if it's oxygen vector doping, while some people believe it's doping if it's doping.)

FA is being very careful with his words and likes to mention "I started EPO in..", as all that matters is EPO.

Bottom line is he was using Cortisone before Lance was using it! You couldn't make this stuff up...

Nice post, Hog.

 

[gooner]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

FA is being very careful with his words and likes to mention "I started EPO in..", as all that matters is EPO.

Frankie says "doping a lot or a little is wrong." But seems to be implying that only doping with EPO is doping, doping with cortisone is not doping.

Bottom line is he was using Cortisone before Lance was using it!

To be fair, we don't know when LA started using cortisone. He's kept the lips zipped on that one. I guess he's not yet ready to throw Chris Carmichael under the bus, even as the wheels squish Jim Ochowicz.

I think its coming down to the fact that when Frankie was a single guy living the dream, doping was fine by him. Career long use of Cortisone, kept EPO in his fridge, he showed Hincapie how to dope etc. The shift came when he got married and he got busted by his wife then he had to stop doping as she would have left him.

Not sure how that comes down to Lance when the choice was made long before to dope.

From memory Swart also named Frankie as the organizer of the million dollar heist at the Coors Classic did he not? (edit: Confirmed on Twitter its in 7DS).

Again, you couldn't make this stuff up... its actually pure comedy

IIRC, it was in Juliet Macur's book and it was there in the early editions as it was released. Just after that, I had a look and noticed that section was removed from later copies.

 

[thehog]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

The biggest irony is the hospital room incident. I'm sure it's not lost that when Lance supposedly blurted out the list of drugs, Frankie failed to tell his partner he was already taking them! He also failed to tell anyone else that he was doing what Lance was doing back in 1996 and he was doing it prior to Lance...

 

[Race Radio]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

From memory Swart also named Frankie as the organizer of the million dollar heist at the Coors Classic did he not? (edit: Confirmed on Twitter its in 7DS).

Again, you couldn't make this stuff up... its actually pure comedy

Actually you can make it up.

The original exchange was during one of the early races and Frankie tossed out $50k. He then left to race in Europe and did not race the rest of the series

As lance said the million dollar heist was organised by Phil Anderson and Och.

 

[Race Radio]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/andreu-armstrong-is-just-in-attack-mode/

I realise that even asking this question makes me an Armstrong apologist and Betsy hater, but - even correcting for the errors in Andreu's dates - is Andreu now saying that he used cortisone for the majority of his career? That - I'm sorry, but there's no other way to phrase this - he doped for the majority of his career?

(As I said earlier, some people believe it's only doping if it's oxygen vector doping, while some people believe it's doping if it's doping.)

That is not what he is saying

He is saying that he joined 7-11 in 1984. He was 18 and racing on the national team, which is essentially what 7-11 was back then. Later, after moving to Eruope, team doctors gave him cortisone after some bad crashes (Which is allowed) and prior to 2 races. He then started EPO when he was 29 and used it for 3 years.

Frankie raced full time for 14 years. It is funny to see Lance now trying to paint him as a junkie When they were teammates he used to bust Frankie's balls because he would not get on the Ferrari program.

 

[thehog]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

The biggest irony is the hospital room incident. I'm sure it's not lost that when Lance supposedly blurted out the list of drugs, Frankie failed to tell his partner he was already taking them! He also failed to tell anyone else that he was doing what Lance was doing back in 1996 and he was doing it prior to Lance...

Hard to tell with all the lies going around, Frankie included. You kinda wish he'd just fess up and tell it straight. We keep getting drip feed. I guess the next round of disclosures there will be another "admission".

Nevertheless it was in 7DS, Walsh confirms Frankie did arrange the heist

Watch this space, the BA show to roll on...

 

[mewmewmew13]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

The biggest irony is the hospital room incident. I'm sure it's not lost that when Lance supposedly blurted out the list of drugs, Frankie failed to tell his partner he was already taking them! He also failed to tell anyone else that he was doing what Lance was doing back in 1996 and he was doing it prior to Lance...

Hard to tell with all the lies going around, Frankie included. You kinda wish he'd just fess up and tell it straight. We keep getting drip feed. I guess the next round of disclosures there will be another "admission".

Nevertheless it was in 7DS, Walsh confirms Frankie did arrange the heist

Watch this space, the BA show to roll on...

Yeeha the show must go on!
I love how out of the blue since Lance became a "changed person" as told to USA today that now is when he decides that everyone should know that Frankie lied and doped a LOT. Funny how Lance let this info slide all these last years...even when he was going down.
Oh yeah..remember that Hincapie even apologized to Frankie for saying untruths that Lance told him to say in the Detroit Free Press...

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/andreu-armstrong-is-just-in-attack-mode/

I realise that even asking this question makes me an Armstrong apologist and Betsy hater, but - even correcting for the errors in Andreu's dates - is Andreu now saying that he used cortisone for the majority of his career? That - I'm sorry, but there's no other way to phrase this - he doped for the majority of his career?

(As I said earlier, some people believe it's only doping if it's oxygen vector doping, while some people believe it's doping if it's doping.)

That is not what he is saying

He is saying that he joined 7-11 in 1984. He was 18 and racing on the national team, which is essentially what 7-11 was back then. Later, after moving to Eruope, team doctors gave him cortisone after some bad crashes (Which is allowed) and prior to 2 races. He then started EPO when he was 29 and used it for 3 years.

Frankie raced full time for 14 years. It is funny to see Lance now trying to paint him as a junkie When they were teammates he used to bust Frankie's balls because he would not get on the Ferrari program.

So lance under oath is painting him as a junkie now? NOW WHAT? I just don't know where we go from here really. I understand the FACT that lance dissed these guys and ran them down. What I don't understand is the spin where he was asked questions under oath and we transpose that to the media. Look I'm not calling anyone a pig here or "whitewashing" shat as my man said before. Lets just say we are not on the same page with this and maybe we should have a PM on the twitt or here. I just dont *** get it.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

The biggest irony is the hospital room incident. I'm sure it's not lost that when Lance supposedly blurted out the list of drugs, Frankie failed to tell his partner he was already taking them! He also failed to tell anyone else that he was doing what Lance was doing back in 1996 and he was doing it prior to Lance...

Hard to tell with all the lies going around, Frankie included. You kinda wish he'd just fess up and tell it straight. We keep getting drip feed. I guess the next round of disclosures there will be another "admission".

Nevertheless it was in 7DS, Walsh confirms Frankie did arrange the heist

Watch this space, the BA show to roll on...

Yeeha the show must go on!
I love how out of the blue since Lance became a "changed person" as told to USA today that now is when he decides that everyone should know that Frankie lied and doped a LOT. Funny how Lance let this info slide all these last years...even when he was going down.
Oh yeah..remember that Hincapie even apologized to Frankie for saying untruths that Lance told him to say in the Detroit Free Press...

can we link this or what cause I'm *** dumbfounded and confused on what is quoted with the press or with the depo's or even some stuff from a twitter.

I'm not going to go out on a limb here but these F-ing loser's were all playing the game. Guess what **hats who's game was it?

 

[thehog]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

The biggest irony is the hospital room incident. I'm sure it's not lost that when Lance supposedly blurted out the list of drugs, Frankie failed to tell his partner he was already taking them! He also failed to tell anyone else that he was doing what Lance was doing back in 1996 and he was doing it prior to Lance...

Hard to tell with all the lies going around, Frankie included. You kinda wish he'd just fess up and tell it straight. We keep getting drip feed. I guess the next round of disclosures there will be another "admission".

Nevertheless it was in 7DS, Walsh confirms Frankie did arrange the heist

Watch this space, the BA show to roll on...
Yeeha the show must go on!
I love how out of the blue since Lance became a "changed person" as told to USA today that now is when he decides that everyone should know that Frankie lied and doped a LOT. Funny how Lance let this info slide all these last years...even when he was going down.
Oh yeah..remember that Hincapie even apologized to Frankie for saying untruths that Lance told him to say in the Detroit Free Press...

So you saying Frankie didn't take cortisone even when he just admitted taking it prior to racing with Lance? Ummm, ok.

Detroit Rock City, alright!

 

[gooner]

Didn't Scott McKinley deny this happened with Frankie?

 

[thehog]

Re:

Didn't Scott McKinley deny this happened with Frankie?

What's $50k in the brown paper bag & cortisone injections between fiends?

It's an ugly picture.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

Didn't Scott McKinley deny this happened with Frankie?

Dude for real? These guys all on the cort back then no doubt and it was legal in some sense when it comes to playing the game as Race Radio also said. It is what it is. THESE DIRTY **** are all playing the GAME all the TIME and we get played, unless you see it for what it is. The rest is just some ****'s playing the rest of us to give 2 *** when we should be out of ** to give. Honestly Should we care?

Hey DAVE and RACE who is whitewashing WHO? WE are all to lose.

all we now is coleslaw and the merry band of the dirty dozen to freeze in.