Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 4 (Post-Settlement)

[Sciatic]

Lance's Podcast is a sponsor on George Hincapie's new team. There's nothing illegal about it in any jurisdiction including UCI rules so it is fine if that's George's direction for America's new pro team.
Hopefully we won't need to endure any history-washing in the process but there's not enough detergent to accomplish that, I hope. It'll make for some theater, for sure when Lance is first in line to interview successful team members. Hopefully he doesn't ask: "who was the most inspirational figure in American cycling in your opinion?"

😆 Ha!

 

[Rob5091]

Lance & George back together again and with Vino running the show at Astana, it's like Make Cycling Great Again! Hurrah!🙂

 

[Ulle97]

What are your thoughts on Lance using a motor during his heyday? 99-05.

Rumours of a motor being developed in 98 and it being kept a secret for 10 years?

 

[Lequack]

He's still putting in those miles, as Froome would say

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBSUc6yV-rA

 

[red_flanders]

What are your thoughts on Lance using a motor during his heyday? 99-05.

Rumours of a motor being developed in 98 and it being kept a secret for 10 years?

Personally never bought it. The doping all tracked, always was obvious.

Feels odd to say it, but to be honest, I think he would have found it...unethical. According to his sense of ethics. He respected the sport and the history on some level.

 

[Unchained]

I don't know if it will ever be public but I would think that Armstrong the bike racer made and lost lots of money, but I think as an investor he is doing quite well. Lance likely to keep his post settlement wealth accumulation a bit more discreet.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Personally never bought it. The doping all tracked, always was obvious.

Feels odd to say it, but to be honest, I think he would have found it...unethical. According to his sense of ethics. He respected the sport and the history on some level.

I mentioned several years ago in this very thread (part 3) that Pharmstrong is cycling's Bogeyman. Virtually any accusation is plausible because he's never come comprehensively clean. And even were he to try, it would never be entirely credible because he has such an extensive history of lying.

It was inevitable that in time people would start attributing miscarriages and solar eclipses to his magical powers.

Then there's the matter of his personal assistant and bike mechanic, Mike Anderson, who would have told us by now.

Anderson was working for the Posties at their Gerona hide-out in 2004. While unpacking Pharmstrong's luggage for him, he discovered several vials of androstenedione, an anabolic steroid, in the medicine cabinet. Anderson was shocked but Pharmstrong talked him down from that ledge by convincing him "everybody else is doing it," and Anderson became part of the Postie's cabal. At least until that autumn, when Pharmstrong employed Anderson as a handy man over the off-season at his gated Texas estate.

While Pharmstrong was taking a trip without advising USADA of his change in whereabouts, he became aware the "Vampires" were at his home, looking for him but the gates were locked (of course). He telephoned Anderson and instructed him to get into his (Phamrstrong's) tinted window truck and drive nonchalantly around the estate, making sure he could be seen from the front gate.

When USADA approached him later with the "whereabouts" violation, Pharmstrong claimed it was he in the tinted window truck, that he was out checking his property and wasn't aware his mobile had lost its charge. Which satisfied the USADA folks.

When Anderson found out he had been used in the deception, he resigned. And anyone who resigns from the employ Lance Pharmstrong without his consent suffers the consequences (just ask FLandis, Tyler Hamilton and Alberto Contador). Pharmstrong sued Anderson for theft of property (a claim settled out of court) and had him blackballed. In time, Anderson moved to New Zealand (no, I'm not making this up) to escape the argy-bargy.

So to say there is no love lost between those two would be an huge understatement. And there is zero chance Anderson would not have shouted it from the rooftops if Pharmstrong had used an electrified bicycle.

All this was run to ground years ago in this thread (or its earlier incarnations), but it would be difficult to locate, even if you knew what to look for.

 

[Berzin]

And there is zero chance Anderson would not have shouted it from the rooftops if Pharmstrong had used an electrified bicycle.

Conjecture as proven fact. You can believe what you want, but the odds of someone who had a history of trying everything under the sun would not use a motor if one were available to him are slim to none indeed. I am convinced he used a motor. I have no proof aside from what I've heard from insiders (and I will never reveal my sources) but I've been a certified, licensed OG hater of this man for decades and remain one to this very day. I would put nothing past him. This is what I ascertain from his behavior and not from my abhorrent dislike of him.

 

[pastronef]

Conjecture as proven fact. You can believe what you want, but the odds of someone who had a history of trying everything under the sun would not use a motor if one were available to him are slim to none indeed. I am convinced he used a motor. I have no proof aside from what I've heard from insiders (and I will never reveal my sources) but I've been a certified, licensed OG hater of this man for decades and remain one to this very day. I would put nothing past him. This is what I ascertain from his behavior and not from my abhorrent dislike of him.

your bias is waaaay bigger than your actual analysis or proof

 

[Cookster15]

Conjecture as proven fact. You can believe what you want, but the odds of someone who had a history of trying everything under the sun would not use a motor if one were available to him are slim to none indeed. I am convinced he used a motor. I have no proof aside from what I've heard from insiders (and I will never reveal my sources) but I've been a certified, licensed OG hater of this man for decades and remain one to this very day. I would put nothing past him. This is what I ascertain from his behavior and not from my abhorrent dislike of him.

I can't see Lance having using a motor. Unless you can provide more to back up your theory this very much looks like personal bias to me.

In fact, this seems like much of what we read for months in the motor doping and even Pogacar Clinic threads - conspiracy theories and people believing what they want to believe but not based upon facts, logic or reason.

And Lance last raced in January 2011. Femke Van den Driessche wasn't discovered until 2016. What concealed motor technology was available during Lance's era?

 

[aphronesis]

I can't see Lance having using a motor. Unless you can provide more to back up your theory this very much looks like personal bias to me.

In fact, this seems like much of what we read for months in the motor doping and even Pogacar Clinic threads - conspiracy theories and people believing what they want to believe but not based upon facts, logic or reason.

And Lance last raced in January 2011. Femke Van den Driessche wasn't discovered until 2016. What concealed motor technology was available during Lance's era?

More than this and to StSt’s resummation, Armstrong’s definitive, salient and most contentious period ended in 2005. But maybe his motor just wasn’t working later on Verbier even if all the staff and teammates were properly vetted by then.

 

[Rob5091]

I suppose it was inevitable that we end up here with "I'm a victim!" (remember folks, there's a new film in the making ...)
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...lture-after-going-from-hero-to-zero-overnight

 

[E_F_]

I suppose it was inevitable that we end up here with "I'm a victim!" (remember folks, there's a new film in the making ...)
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...lture-after-going-from-hero-to-zero-overnight

Cancel culture? Goodness.

 

[Oldman]

Personally never bought it. The doping all tracked, always was obvious.

Feels odd to say it, but to be honest, I think he would have found it...unethical. According to his sense of ethics. He respected the sport and the history on some level.

That...as you said he would have found it unethical in the historical sense.

 

[SHAD0W93]

View: https://youtu.be/bqRjxF-oPrQ?is=8RuUPqAiLNMP8H0R

 

[Lequack]

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4pjMl-vp23Y?feature=share

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

I suppose it was inevitable that we end up here with "I'm a victim!" (remember folks, there's a new film in the making ...)
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...lture-after-going-from-hero-to-zero-overnight

Lance should rightfully be considered the greatest Tour de France rider of all time.

 

[repoman]

I don't think Armstrong was on anything special compared to the others. He'd win 1-3 stages a tour, do one prep race per year with his entire year focused on the TdF. He looked genuinely wrecked at the end of stages he won. He has a proven history of being a genetic freak as a teenager. He wasn't winning 6-8 stages per tour and any classics he wanted and just being 10% beyond everyone else all year while breathing out of his nose with sausage legs. I do believe the current "GOAT" is on something novel and only being used by UAE.

 

[Nomad]

I don't think Armstrong was on anything special compared to the others. He'd win 1-3 stages a tour, do one prep race per year with his entire year focused on the TdF. He looked genuinely wrecked at the end of stages he won. He has a proven history of being a genetic freak as a teenager. He wasn't winning 6-8 stages per tour and any classics he wanted and just being 10% beyond everyone else all year while breathing out of his nose with sausage legs. I do believe the current "GOAT" is on something novel and only being used by UAE.

Any speculation as to what that could be & why only used by UAE?

I remember back when EPO first arrived in the peleton, late 80s/early 90s, it spread like wildfire where by the mid-90s, it was being used by all the top riders. This prompted Bjarne Riis to infamously state that EPO was the "normal preparation for a professional rider."

Riis said in addition to EPO, he used HGH & cortisone (must have worked perfectly for him winning the 96 Tour becoming a prolific climber with that big body of his. Lol).

And Armstrong followed suit with EPO, HGH & cortisone usage as well. So the EPO/HGH/Cortisone combo seemed to be the blueprint for the dopers of the 90s & 00s.

 

[red_flanders]

I am convinced he used a motor. I have no proof aside from what I've heard from insiders (and I will never reveal my sources) but I've been a certified, licensed OG hater of this man for decades and remain one to this very day. I would put nothing past him.

OK, and that works for you. You've seen information that convinces you. No one can argue that, since we don't know who you are, or the sources, or what they said. So I remain unconvinced, and I don't see anything from his rides which suggest motors to me, but I'm always open to new evidence...for anything.

By contrast, I have no explanation other than motors from some Sky performances - mostly Froome. And I think a good case has been made for Cancellara.

 

[Oldman]

Lance should rightfully be considered the greatest Tour de France rider of all time.

Knowing riders, clean riders that could drop him at almost any phase in his career save for the Full Ferrari you could say he was the most successful cheat. Trying to rewrite history seems to be a new initiative by forum members.
Many of us remember the bot army and chronic intimidators, too. None were as great as Lance, himself.

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

Knowing riders, clean riders that could drop him at almost any phase in his career save for the Full Ferrari you could say he was the most successful cheat. Trying to rewrite history seems to be a new initiative by forum members.
Many of us remember the bot army and chronic intimidators, too. None were as great as Lance, himself.

Basso, Ullrich, Vino, all cheats as well and couldn’t beat him.
Who are these clean riders ?

 

[Oldman]

Basso, Ullrich, Vino, all cheats as well and couldn’t beat him.
Who are these clean riders ?

You'll need to dig deep into these archives to see names of great riders that chose not to continue. The life of team doping promoted as early as Montgomery-Subaru, 7-11 and Motorola was convincing to a few. Not to mention his relatively tepid pro introduction until he found juice.
But you speak with such certainty it will be a journey of joy for you to dig through the years we all lived, raced and try to forget. All it takes is Lance's return to media, some bots and fanboys to ruin that possibility.

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

You'll need to dig deep into these archives to see names of great riders that chose not to continue. The life of team doping promoted as early as Montgomery-Subaru, 7-11 and Motorola was convincing to a few. Not to mention his relatively tepid pro introduction until he found juice.
But you speak with such certainty it will be a journey of joy for you to dig through the years we all lived, raced and try to forget. All it takes is Lance's return to media, some bots and fanboys to ruin that possibility.

So what did Lance have that Basso or Ullrich didn’t?
What does Pogacar have that Vingegaard or Remco don’t?
I don’t have to dig anywhere, I’ve seen it said that club riders in Texas are regularly beating Lance. Yet he won a world championship and classics before his ‘transformation’ post Cancer. He was always a great rider.
I don’t need to dig through anything, show me the riders that were better than Lance, or be quiet.

 

[Oldman]

So what did Lance have that Basso or Ullrich didn’t?
What does Pogacar have that Vingegaard or Remco don’t?
I don’t have to dig anywhere, I’ve seen it said that club riders in Texas are regularly beating Lance. Yet he won a world championship and classics before his ‘transformation’ post Cancer. He was always a great rider.
I don’t need to dig through anything, show me the riders that were better than Lance, or be quiet.

I'm not talking post retirement.
This: our amateur team had an extremely good, big climber. So good he made the US Olympic team (the only amateur).
While training for that TTT with Eddie B following in a car, Lance took a glory pull to drop another former Nat team junior he didn't get along with when they were at USAC training. Down to 3 riders and 4km from the finish of the session; Eddie rolls up alongside and asks my former teammate to finish the TTT. He did not like Lance or Thom Weisel; Lance's patron (and his boss). My guy slowed it down to collect the dropped guy (they needed to finish with 3). Lance took his next turn and my guy rotated to the front. The other two guys said "he just ramped up the pace evenly...Lance was gone....Eddie was pleased."
Lance had forgotten earlier in the year he and George Hincapie did a pro-am stage race the our team entered. That same guy finished 3rd behind a Coors pro and a very talented George H. I was several minutes back after doing dom work. Lance finished 10 minutes back on that mountaintop stage. Doped then; just not the Ferrari method. Always a fraud and there are many more riders that prefer never to have their names mentioned in piece with him.
You can be at peace with the best doper part, though.