Official Lance Armstrong thread

[ThisFrenchGuy]

Is this also the same L'Equipe which received very strict instructions to not speak of certain matters this year by its owner Amaury Group (same Amaury than from ASO)?
Not sure bringing up french media take on it is really that meaningful: France 2 has always been very careful in their coverage. The TdF is one of their major historic event (all the more since they have a limited access to football, which is the first moneymaker). L'Equipe (and Le Parisien) did have some freedom at one point to discuss certain issues, because it was beneficial (and absolutely necessary) to the credibility of cycling and TdF, but were always on a leash.
I am not saying those guys would gang up on Lance if they could and think the exact opposite, just that they are somewhat inclined to favor a rather consensual view on the Tour.

Armstrong came back, and it was a major surprise. He did a good result, that's true. He is a star and draw attention. I think the crowd likes him, esp. this year where he was weaker and appeared vulnerable and human (in the race). [Then again, one wonder who propagated the baseless myth of the French being out to get him? ]

That being said: I do not really see the point you are making?
What would I care that my opinion is within the mainstream or not? I have my views on Armstrong, they're mine and that's it. I will be happy to discuss about it with anyone though.

I did read those boards before joining: I couldn't miss the bazillions threads about Lance and I agree. The back and forth is sometimes ridiculous and "fanboys" and "haterz" are both to blame for some of the dull discussions.

 

[53x11 in DC]

Is this also the same L'Equipe which received very strict instructions to not speak of certain matters this year by its owner Amaury Group (same Amaury than from ASO)?
Not sure bringing up french media take on it is really that meaningful: France 2 has always been very careful in their coverage. The TdF is one of their major historic event (all the more since they have a limited access to football, which is the first moneymaker). L'Equipe (and Le Parisien) did have some freedom at one point to discuss certain issues, because it was beneficial (and absolutely necessary to save the credibility of cycling and TdF), but were always on a leash.
I am not saying those guys would gang up on Lance if they could and think the exact opposite, just that they are somewhat inclined to favor a rather consensual view on the Tour.

Armstrong came back, and it was a major surprise. He did a good result, that's true. He is a star and draw attention. I think the crowd likes him, esp. this year where he was weaker and appeared vulnerable and human (in the race). [Then again, one wonder who propagated the baseless myth of the French being out to get him? ]

That being said: I do not really see the point you are making?
What would I care that my opinion is within the mainstream or not? I have my views on Armstrong, they're mine and that's it. I will be happy to discuss about it with anyone though.

I did read those boards before joining: I couldn't miss the bazillions threads about Lance and I agree. The back and forth is sometimes ridiculous and "fanboys" and "haterz" are both to blame for some of the dull discussions.

Agreed 100% on your last point.

My general point is that the boards are looking more akin to a rally of fundamental extremists than open-minded folks. There is little middle ground, even though so many have tried (e.g. Alpe d'Huez and Merckx - where is Merckx these days??). I fear that the bi-polar bull$hit will crush the boards.

 

[elapid]

Agreed 100% on your last point.

My general point is that the boards are looking more akin to a rally of fundamental extremists than open-minded folks. There is little middle ground, even though so many have tried (e.g. Alpe d'Huez and Merckx - where is Merckx these days??). I fear that the bi-polar bull$hit will crush the boards.

+1. There has been a concerted effort by a few posters in the last couple of days to stop this love/hate BS and debate rationally and civilly. Let's hope we reach some sort of middle ground and some of the extremists will filter out of the forum as people no longer take the bait.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I dont see what many here complaining about Lance not attending the party.
In the tour, Contador was not the sportman that he should have been until the ventoux. He attacked in Andora, dropped Kloeden, against the manager's instructions. Let's look at it fairly - if Lance did not make that 40 seconds break (and another 4 seconds in the sprint), he would not be on the podium today. That's something you can't teach anywhere.

Contador was the perfect sportsman. He kept his mouth shut and did all his talking with his legs.

 

[ggusta]

You can count it as you wish, but in the official stats a TTT win is NOT "a win for each of the team members"

If it matters to anyone, AC's oficial web page says he had 2 stage wins in this years tour, Verbier and the ITT. If hew was counting the TTT, then that would be 3. So, using that logic, no Lance didn't win a stage. But his effort in the TTT should not be overlooked. Lance rode smartly and was definitely a contender. My issues with him arehis treatment of teammates and behavior off the bike.

 

[pmcg76]

Firstly, kudos to Lance on finishing on the podium, I thought me might lose it on Ventoux yesterday but managed to hold on. I wasnt sure how he would go in this Tour, I found it hard to believe that he could go from 12th in the Giro to Tour winner in 2 months but with Lance you never know. I think he really benefited being on the strongest team, I thought he could win it after the TTT but was not as strong as I expected. I would love to see him on Silence-Lotto to see how he would go.

I admit to hoping he wouldnt win as I dont think I would have been able to take the one-dimensional media coverage, has 3rd place in the Tour ever received so much coverage?

I still dont like him and nothing he has done on or of his bike this Tour has made me like him any better, I would say the opposite in fact. He did apologise to last years Tour contenders but that was it, he is still as arrogant, self centred and media manipulative as ever. He has shown very little respect to AC and in fact undermined him at every occasion so there will be no conversions here.

Hopefully cycling coverage can return to normal now that the comeback hype has subsided and Lance did not win.

 

[AAMilne]

Hopefully cycling coverage can return to normal now that the comeback hype has subsided and Lance did not win.

even though he didnt win, he was instrumental in the tour and its coverage. next year is long way off, but dont bet against him.
and btw, if not for him winning all those years, you would not have coverage at all, you need to appreciate his influence on getting coverage.
now, can you tell me how many winners (not just cycling) you know that are nice guys? was merckx? hinault? lemond? mostly they are egocentric, to say the least (you can add your adjectives)

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry, but there is no longer a middle of the road for me in terms of Mr Armstrong. I have stated many times why his ACTIONS are offensive. He has continued those same actions this tour, and I don't see that he will ever change. He is not a person I would want my children to emulate in any way, and he has purposefully hurt others and shown no remorse for having done so. His actions towards Contador, someone who showed enough humility to apologize to his teammates for attacking and dropping Kloden, and who also said several times that he looked up to Mr Armstrong are nothing but contemptible. I for one wish he would just go away. I won't call him a cancer to cycling, but he is a venereal disease.

And if you think I will go away because the Tour is over, you don't understand that I am actually a fan of cycling and have and will continue to post irrespective of whether The Uniballer is riding or not.

 

[pmcg76]

even though he didnt win, he was instrumental in the tour and its coverage. next year is long way off, but dont bet against him.
and btw, if not for him winning all those years, you would not have coverage at all, you need to appreciate his influence on getting coverage.
now, can you tell me how many winners (not just cycling) you know that are nice guys? was merckx? hinault? lemond? mostly they are egocentric, to say the least (you can add your adjectives)

My good man, here in Europe, we have a channel called Eurosport that has been showing live cycling since 1989, Lance or no Lance, they also show all GTs, most classics and many other races. Last year I lived in Belgium, I didnt have Eurosport but the Tour was on 5 different channels live, French, Belgian(Flemish/French) Dutch, German. I laughed at non-cycling fans complaining about the Tour being on everywhere.

I understand the importance of Lance in the US but that is solely a problem in the US. I have pointed out in other threads that cycling will always survive in the core Euro countries but popularity in other countries will flucuate with the success of riders from those countries, Ireland, Colombia in the 80s, Germany, Australia, US in the last decade. Even in Spain, popularity in cycling dropped with the retirement of Indurain.

Not to be particularly contrary with 53 x12 in DC but I have been at the last few Tours and the people following the race have been split between those that are there for the 'biggest annual event' and the hardcore fans so I dont agree with the idea of Lances popularity, I spoke to many and their knowledge on the sport was clearly limited. There are many more US, Aussie fans now but many have come in on the back of the Lance phenomenon and see the Tour as an event to attend, a more accurate crowd to gauge would be those at the Tour of Flanders or Dauphine Libere or similar race.

 

[SpeedWay]

What's so incredibly funny to me in reading this thread is just how far removed from the mainstream the haters are.

It's "reality" they're removed from. But that can be excused, their synapses are hard wired to their hemorrhoids Glad you had a good time. It's an experience you'll remember for a lifetime.

 

[Parrot23]

(DISCLAIMER: no flames, please, either for or against; these are just my fallible opinions or impressions)

Definitely no love lost on the podium between Conti and Armstrong; they barely even acknowledged each other (and Lance apparently didn't even go to Conti's victory party, but went for dinner with Radioshack crowd). Surprised by this. [edit: see correction below].

Conti was a lot tougher mentally than I thought he would be, and Lance physically (3rd is tremendous). Also, Lance letting bygones be bygones with Andreu and some others is good sportsmanship, as was his manlike recognition of the facts that Conti was stronger (no B.S. here after the key mountain stages). Not commenting on the rest of the stuff, though (others have covered that in depth, and I don't disagree).

But can't see the Radioshack venture working for long, if they take a whole lot of older riders like Levi, Klodi, Lance, Horner. Seems like a one-shot/year deal, with a great deal of expense to set up the team. Also, what's this biz about Lance doing triathlons, running, and other events with them? If he does that, he can kiss next year's tour goodbye. But would make sense ONCE he's stopped Pro Tour bike racing.

Graham Watson labels this pic of his: "Alberto Contador celebrates on the podium with Andy Schleck and a curious-looking Lance Armstrong". He didn't win 7 times by not wanting it.

And this bike is hideous (sport is becoming too commercialized with Lance/Trek, Nike, etc.):

Photo again by Graham Watson.

 

[elapid]

now, can you tell me how many winners (not just cycling) you know that are nice guys? was merckx? hinault? lemond? mostly they are egocentric, to say the least (you can add your adjectives)

In cycling, I would say Sastre (TdF 2008), O'Grady (P-R 2007), and even Boonen (lots of classics) are nice guys. Most golfers seem pretty nice, including Tiger Woods. Same for many tennis players, cricketers, Aussie Rules Football players, and rugby union players. They may play hard and most need to make selfish choices to succeed, but they are still nice to their team mates and rivals (especially when the competition is finished) and the media. For me, Lance is the opposite of all this - he chases down the likes of Bassons and Simeoni, he slags off his own team mates throughout the TdF (and even on the post-finish interview today), and controls the media by excluding anyone that has said anything bad about him. There are not many athletes that play this badly with others.

 

[elapid]

Lance apparently didn't even go to Conti's victory party, but went for dinner with Radioshack crowd.

This was the night before stage 21. He was coy about his plans after the finish.

 

[Parrot23]

This was the night before stage 21. He was coy about his plans after the finish.

Okay, thanks, got it:

http://www.velonews.com/article/96014

Easy to miss these details, but it's a BIG difference here. Good correction.

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, thanks, got it:

http://www.velonews.com/article/96014

Easy to miss these details, but it's a BIG difference here. Good correction.

I don't think it makes much of a difference at all. Plus, I am willing to bet he skipped tonight's also.

 

[Parrot23]

IF he skipped tonight's, that would be really bad form, LOL. Really doubt it, since it's the whole Astana team, not Conti. Let's see....

 

[AAMilne]

My good man, here in Europe...

I agree, cycling in europe is big and it is a US problem in term of coverage, but that channel (versus) broadcasts very little classics if big name US cyclist like Armstrong does not participate (Hincapie is second tier for them). But, regardless of what kind of person he is in your eyes, his positives are great. Not just cycling, but the Livestrong foundation is an amazing money generating machine, all for cancer research, and that is something that other people did not do (I like very much the 'good' people in the peloton. I like Andy and Frank Schleck, Jens Voigt, etc., they are great). But again, how many accomplished what Armstrong did, take away all his tour de france wins - just his foundation alone. Contador winning celebration? well, its not a biggie for me, sorry.

 

[hfer07]

AAMilne:
you are a good example of being a LA fan-but not a "cycling fan" -which without his accomplishments done in the sport -his foundation could have never existed- so I'd say to you-respectfully-please get informed in "cycling" to understand why LA is not completely respected-regardless his personal cause...
& perhaps you sound like him when you cannot "acknowledge"-not celebrating-that it was LA's "team mate" who triumphed out of really hard work,doubtfulness from his own DS Johann Bruyneel & "tolerated" all the world's pressure and the "inner battle" for leadership against LA himself who refused to accept that he-Contador-was the strongest-and at the podium what he gets from LA is a mere "hand shake" with a "bitter face"...
but then again- His comeback was about "cancer awareness"......

 

[richwagmn]

Another good article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ighty-contador-ushers-in-new-era-1761969.html

Confirms what many of us knew. Armstrong was trying to establish he was the leader of the team. Had he taken yellow, Contador would have been in a bad position. That's why Contador attacked on stage 7 and Lance went whining to the press.

But how was the great Lance Armstrong beaten by someone so supposedly dumb? A dumb person would have trusted LA and JB. Contador knew completely what he was up against. He executed masterfully.

And we got to enjoy Lance's sad puppy eyes on the podium.

 

[yourwelcome]

And we got to enjoy Lance's sad puppy eyes on the podium.

I'd love to know what LA did to the little club of obsessive haters in this forum... he can't have had time to backdoor all of you ;-)

 

[AAMilne]

AAMinle:
you are a good example of being a LA fan-but not a "cycling fan"

It just shows your ignorance. I am and always been a cycling fan, including the days with no television - yes, those are the days you may not even witnessed in your life.
Do you think everyone who adores Maradona (and I am not one of them) does not love soccer? You are somewhere else.
I am riding bikes seriously (didnot have the money to get one until later in life) for the past 25 years, thats before LA times.
Open your eyes my friend - bicycling is an important part of my life, but not everything. I can see the light without it.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd love to know what LA did to the little club of obsessive haters in this forum... he can't have had time to backdoor all of you ;-)

I'm sure a fanboy like you wants a video of is so you can burn through that new jar of lube.

 

[yourwelcome]

I'm sure a fanboy like you wants a video of is so you can burn through that new jar of lube.

This kind of obsessive weirdness is exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[Anonymous]

This kind of obsessive weirdness is exactly what I'm talking about.

My welcome?

You throw up a lob and I knock it out of the park and I am the one with the problem? Dang, throw harder pitches is all I can say.

 

[dolophonic]

The way things played out.. Lance has shown himself.Mr team... sure.
Did he have dinner with the team ? No he was off with all his superstar friends.. nice.
Lance has used the media like the professional he is.
Contador used his legs like the professional he is.!