Official Lance Armstrong thread

[Anonymous]

I'm seriously thinking of not posting here anymore. I just don't think I am intellectual enough to keep up.

Yea, with a name like huge anus, your posts SCREAM intelligence...

 

[fulcrum]

Here is a partial translation that I just put together. In reference to the last (6th) mini-chapter of the article:

from

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/uomo/solo/comando/elpepidep/20090727elpepidep_2/Tes

supposedly a serious spanish newspaper.


6. Agua en el Ventoux, champaña en el hotel
Una escena equívoca a mitad de la ascensión al Ventoux dejó en muchos aficionados con memoria la impresión de que, ... ..., Contador se negaba a aceptar la cortesía de Armstrong, que le ofrecía un bidón de agua con los colores del Caisse d'Épargne. La imagen aislada engañaba. Faltaba el plano anterior. "Yo iba en fuga y me acaba de alcanzar el grupo de Contador y Armstrong. Iba por la izquierda de la carretera y cuando me alcanzó Contador, que iba por el centro, le ofrecí mi bidón, porque vi que él no tenía agua y soy su amigo", cuenta el cántabro Iván Gutiérrez, el número uno en fugas (581 kilómetros escapado, sin recompensa). "Pero fue alargar el brazo con el agua, cuando Armstrong, que iba un poco más retrasado, por el centro, lo cogió al vuelo y se adelantó a Alberto. Después de beber se lo ofreció a Alberto, pero éste pasó. Y ya se lo iba a quedar cuando le recordé que era mío, que me lo devolviera".

El detalle refleja el sentido patrimonial con que el ganador de siete Tours consideraba no sólo su relación con su equipo, sino con todo el pelotón. También era Armstrong quien decidía cuándo había que brindar con champaña para celebrar los triunfos del equipo: sí, en medio de gran júbilo y aplausos de los suyos, el día del abanico, la noche de la contrarreloj por equipos; y no, sino frialdad, cuando Contador conquistó el maillot amarillo en Verbier o ganó la contrarreloj de Annecy. "Un funeral para celebrar el amarillo", resumió un miembro de otro equipo. Dueño de su copa de champaña, en el tradicional brindis al comienzo de la etapa de París cada año, Contador la chocó con casi todos sus compañeros, pero no con Armstrong.


6. Water on Mt. Ventoux, Champagne in the hotel

A confusing image left lots of cycling fans with the believe that Contador had refused Armstrong's courtesy in the form of a water bottle with the colors of Caisse d'Epargne. The image without the context was misleading. The previous take was missing. "I was in a breakaway and I just got caught by Contador's and Armstrong's group. I rode on the left of the road and when Contador, riding in the middle, got up to me, I offered him my water bottle, because I saw he didn't have any and I am his friend", said Ivan Gutierrez, the cantabrian with the most km in breakaways (581 km without reward). "As soon as I stretched my arm, Armstrong, who was a little behind us riding in the center, got ahead and caught the bottle on the fly, before Alberto did. After Lance drank he offered the bottle to Alberto, but he refused. Lance was going to keep the bottle when I had to remind him it was mine and that I wanted it in return".

This little incident shows the sense of entitlement the seven time Tour winner showed in regards to not only his own team, but the entire peloton. It was Armstrong the person deciding when champagne should be used to toast for the teams achievements: yes to the day of the echelons, surrounded by great cheers, to the TTT; no to the day Contador got his yellow jersey in Verbier or to the Annecy day when he won the ITT. "A funeral to celebrate a yellow jersey", summarized a member of another team. When Alberto was handed his very own glass of champagne at the beginning of the last stage, like it is tradition, he toasted with almost every member of his team, but not with Armstrong.

 

[Publicus]

I wonder what Kloden did to this child?

If you were going for a non-sequitor, then mission accomplished!

 

[Publicus]

Here is a partial translation that I just put together. In reference to the last (6th) mini-chapter of the article:

from

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/uomo/solo/comando/elpepidep/20090727elpepidep_2/Tes

supposedly a serious spanish newspaper.


6. Agua en el Ventoux, champaña en el hotel
Una escena equívoca a mitad de la ascensión al Ventoux dejó en muchos aficionados con memoria la impresión de que, ... ..., Contador se negaba a aceptar la cortesía de Armstrong, que le ofrecía un bidón de agua con los colores del Caisse d'Épargne. La imagen aislada engañaba. Faltaba el plano anterior. "Yo iba en fuga y me acaba de alcanzar el grupo de Contador y Armstrong. Iba por la izquierda de la carretera y cuando me alcanzó Contador, que iba por el centro, le ofrecí mi bidón, porque vi que él no tenía agua y soy su amigo", cuenta el cántabro Iván Gutiérrez, el número uno en fugas (581 kilómetros escapado, sin recompensa). "Pero fue alargar el brazo con el agua, cuando Armstrong, que iba un poco más retrasado, por el centro, lo cogió al vuelo y se adelantó a Alberto. Después de beber se lo ofreció a Alberto, pero éste pasó. Y ya se lo iba a quedar cuando le recordé que era mío, que me lo devolviera".

El detalle refleja el sentido patrimonial con que el ganador de siete Tours consideraba no sólo su relación con su equipo, sino con todo el pelotón. También era Armstrong quien decidía cuándo había que brindar con champaña para celebrar los triunfos del equipo: sí, en medio de gran júbilo y aplausos de los suyos, el día del abanico, la noche de la contrarreloj por equipos; y no, sino frialdad, cuando Contador conquistó el maillot amarillo en Verbier o ganó la contrarreloj de Annecy. "Un funeral para celebrar el amarillo", resumió un miembro de otro equipo. Dueño de su copa de champaña, en el tradicional brindis al comienzo de la etapa de París cada año, Contador la chocó con casi todos sus compañeros, pero no con Armstrong.


6. Water on Mt. Ventoux, Champagne in the hotel

A confusing image left lots of cycling fans with the believe that Contador had refused Armstrong's courtesy in the form of a water bottle with the colors of Caisse d'Epargne. The image without the context was misleading. The previous take was missing. "I was in a breakaway and I just got caught by Contador's and Armstrong's group. I rode on the left of the road and when Contador, riding in the middle, got up to me, I offered him my water bottle, because I saw he didn't have any and I am his friend", said Ivan Gutierrez, the cantabrian with the most km in breakaways (581 km without reward). "As soon as I stretched my arm, Armstrong, who was a little behind us riding in the center, got ahead and caught the bottle on the fly, before Alberto did. After Lance drank he offered the bottle to Alberto, but he refused. Lance was going to keep the bottle when I had to remind him it was mine and that I wanted it in return".

This little incident shows the sense of entitlement the seven time Tour winner showed in regards to not only his own team, but the entire peloton. It was Armstrong the person deciding when champagne should be used to toast for the teams achievements: yes to the day of the echelons, surrounded by great cheers, to the TTT; no to the day Contador got his yellow jersey in Verbier or to the Annecy day when he won the ITT. "A funeral to celebrate a yellow jersey", summarized a member of another team. When Alberto was handed his very own glass of champagne at the beginning of the last stage, like it is tradition, he toasted with almost every member of his team, but not with Armstrong.

I thought it was strange that someone from Caisse would offer water to Armstrong. This explains some things.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Yea, with a name like huge anus, your posts SCREAM intelligence...

Excuse me sir it is pronounced yahnoos. Please don't tease me about it I had enough of that in kindergarten.

 

[Anonymous]

Excuse me sir it is pronounced yahnoos. Please don't tease me about it I had enough of that in kindergarten.

Well, considering that I am getting killed on cyclingnews forums infractions, I am forced to say that Mr Januss, you are quite possibly the most intelligent, well spoken, friendliest person who posts on this site. I want to have your baby. I think that you are quite possibly my favorite poster in the history of postdom. Would you consider being my BFF?

Seriously, I guess I have to stop here because I am up to 12 points, and while I am not sure what the scale is, I am pretty sure I have racked up more points than most, and I actually do want to keep posting privileges. I guess you are allowed to insult me without consequence, so keep it up. You are actually pretty good sometimes. I appreciate a good troll, and you are definitely better than most.

 

[shankapot0mus]

I agree with you for the most part, he is the money man, like it or not, this is something pro sports here, and probably all over the world, have had to deal with for years. Michael Jordan got Doug Collins fired, etc. (And prolly a whole bunch of other guys we'll never know about) But it was done quietly and away from cameras and microphones. That's the way it is supposed to be done. Lance don't play dat way. He wants the politics out in the open. Michael took care of business behind closed doors. His legacy will endure. Lance's? I doubt it.

lol i see ,,,you guys just can't handle "LANCE'S"... IN YOUR FACE STYLE"... I love it ....
the " Gun Fighter Personality "

The Tour or Life, its about kick'n azz and take'n names,,,,sorry most of you "LADIES" can't take it's ,,,sad

 

[laura.weislo]

I know that both side of the Armstrong love/hate issue are passionate about their opinions, but let's PLEASE keep this civil. OK?

Stick to the facts and stop insulting each other!

You've all been warned!

 

[shankapot0mus]

I know that both side of the Armstrong love/hate issue are passionate about their opinions, but let's PLEASE keep this civil. OK?

Stick to the facts and stop insulting each other!

You've all been warned!

Dear Laura Weislo,

I appreciate your enthusiasm in this matter. Understand no fool language was used at any time!,,,so your referee skills will not be needed at this time...

Sincerely,

shankapot0mus

P.S. Have a Nice Day, you do a wonderful job with the site keep up the good work.

 

[ggusta]

I know that both side of the Armstrong love/hate issue are passionate about their opinions, but let's PLEASE keep this civil. OK?

Stick to the facts and stop insulting each other!

You've all been warned!

A little late. The thread was probably dying under its own inertia anyway. Couple gels, some water, they might revive. Then again, it might be over. Need a couple more news items and tweets to stoke the fire.

 

[mambo#5]

Here is a partial translation that I just put together. In reference to the last (6th) mini-chapter of the article:

from

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/uomo/solo/comando/elpepidep/20090727elpepidep_2/Tes

supposedly a serious spanish newspaper.


6. Agua en el Ventoux, champaña en el hotel
Una escena equívoca a mitad de la ascensión al Ventoux dejó en muchos aficionados con memoria la impresión de que, ... ..., Contador se negaba a aceptar la cortesía de Armstrong, que le ofrecía un bidón de agua con los colores del Caisse d'Épargne. La imagen aislada engañaba. Faltaba el plano anterior. "Yo iba en fuga y me acaba de alcanzar el grupo de Contador y Armstrong. Iba por la izquierda de la carretera y cuando me alcanzó Contador, que iba por el centro, le ofrecí mi bidón, porque vi que él no tenía agua y soy su amigo", cuenta el cántabro Iván Gutiérrez, el número uno en fugas (581 kilómetros escapado, sin recompensa). "Pero fue alargar el brazo con el agua, cuando Armstrong, que iba un poco más retrasado, por el centro, lo cogió al vuelo y se adelantó a Alberto. Después de beber se lo ofreció a Alberto, pero éste pasó. Y ya se lo iba a quedar cuando le recordé que era mío, que me lo devolviera".

El detalle refleja el sentido patrimonial con que el ganador de siete Tours consideraba no sólo su relación con su equipo, sino con todo el pelotón. También era Armstrong quien decidía cuándo había que brindar con champaña para celebrar los triunfos del equipo: sí, en medio de gran júbilo y aplausos de los suyos, el día del abanico, la noche de la contrarreloj por equipos; y no, sino frialdad, cuando Contador conquistó el maillot amarillo en Verbier o ganó la contrarreloj de Annecy. "Un funeral para celebrar el amarillo", resumió un miembro de otro equipo. Dueño de su copa de champaña, en el tradicional brindis al comienzo de la etapa de París cada año, Contador la chocó con casi todos sus compañeros, pero no con Armstrong.


6. Water on Mt. Ventoux, Champagne in the hotel

A confusing image left lots of cycling fans with the believe that Contador had refused Armstrong's courtesy in the form of a water bottle with the colors of Caisse d'Epargne. The image without the context was misleading. The previous take was missing. "I was in a breakaway and I just got caught by Contador's and Armstrong's group. I rode on the left of the road and when Contador, riding in the middle, got up to me, I offered him my water bottle, because I saw he didn't have any and I am his friend", said Ivan Gutierrez, the cantabrian with the most km in breakaways (581 km without reward). "As soon as I stretched my arm, Armstrong, who was a little behind us riding in the center, got ahead and caught the bottle on the fly, before Alberto did. After Lance drank he offered the bottle to Alberto, but he refused. Lance was going to keep the bottle when I had to remind him it was mine and that I wanted it in return".

This little incident shows the sense of entitlement the seven time Tour winner showed in regards to not only his own team, but the entire peloton. It was Armstrong the person deciding when champagne should be used to toast for the teams achievements: yes to the day of the echelons, surrounded by great cheers, to the TTT; no to the day Contador got his yellow jersey in Verbier or to the Annecy day when he won the ITT. "A funeral to celebrate a yellow jersey", summarized a member of another team. When Alberto was handed his very own glass of champagne at the beginning of the last stage, like it is tradition, he toasted with almost every member of his team, but not with Armstrong.

this is bullshit. Go to the 3:30 mark on the following video. You will see that Alberto has a water bottle in his bike. After that, they go on a left hand turn. Lance is in front of Alberto. Ivan Gutierrez hands the water bottle to Lance, who takes a sip and tries to pass it to Alberto who ignores the gesture. Lance tries to put the bottle in his cage but he has one there, so he passes it back to Ivan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwjHykueExE

 

[Publicus]

this is bullshit. Go to the 3:30 mark on the following video. You will see that Alberto has a water bottle in his bike. After that, they go on a left hand turn. Lance is in front of Alberto. Ivan Gutierrez hands the water bottle to Lance, who takes a sip and tries to pass it to Alberto who ignores the gesture. Lance tries to put the bottle in his cage but he has one there, so he passes it back to Ivan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwjHykueExE

Can't really tell what happens with the fan in the green outfit blocking them.

 

[mambo#5]

Can't really tell what happens with the fan in the green outfit blocking them.

sure can't. If Alberto was at the front, it would all be crystal clear.

 

[scribe]

"I offered it to Contador because he is my friend."

This sounds more like high school than a shootout on a nasty mountain. Contador's new team should be named 90210.

 

[dgodave]

Can't really tell what happens with the fan in the green outfit blocking them.

Which describes most of the remote analysis that goes on here...
.

 

[Anonymous]

sure can't. If Alberto was at the front, it would all be crystal clear.

Yea, he was out of the saddle climbing and didn't need a drink. HORRIBLE sportsmanship....

 

[Anonymous]

"I offered it to Contador because he is my friend."

This sounds more like high school than a shootout on a nasty mountain. Contador's new team should be named 90210.

And Armstrong's should be named "Trailer Parks-R-Us"

 

[scribe]

"It hurt my feelings that he took my water bottle that I meant to give to my friend. I wanted it back. :cries"

 

[fulcrum]

this is bullshit. Go to the 3:30 mark on the following video. You will see that Alberto has a water bottle in his bike. After that, they go on a left hand turn. Lance is in front of Alberto. Ivan Gutierrez hands the water bottle to Lance, who takes a sip and tries to pass it to Alberto who ignores the gesture. Lance tries to put the bottle in his cage but he has one there, so he passes it back to Ivan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwjHykueExE

Maybe, maybe not. Both Alberto and Lance had bottles. But we don't know if they had any water. If they did, why would Lance need to drink from an opponent's?

As the article said, the image is misleading because it was lacking context. By the time they show the riders, Lance is already all the way up to Ivan, but you can see Alberto moving to his right as if Lance had gotten in his way.

The Lance taking a sip and passing it to Alberto doesn't contradict the article, neither does the fact that Lance makes a gesture to keep the bottle (they have two cages in the bike). You cannot see Ivan at that point, but he could have been telling Armstrong "get me that bottle back". So the video seems inconclusive to me. I'd rather see the 5 seconds preceding that moment.

PD: in fact, if you look at the image, you can kind of see the latter part of a Lance launch for the bottle at around 3:59.

 

[Publicus]

"I offered it to Contador because he is my friend."

This sounds more like high school than a shootout on a nasty mountain. Contador's new team should be named 90210.

Geez, you are pretty harsh. Guy is offering water to a compatriot and now he's a snobby kid from 90210.

 

[jyrgen]

Strangest thing happened during the summarizing show on Eurosport yesterday.

I watch it in swedish but the broadcast is the same, regarding cameras, interviews etc.

The broadcast ended with an interview with Lance where he said that he will be back next year in style. This year he took it all light hearted and it was more like a fun thing to do for him and a great stage for his Livestrong project.

The interviewer asked him if he was serious about the light hearted statement and Lance said yes, he meant it was obviously displayed by his attitude and that the whole peloton saw that he was light hearted about this year. He was serious when he had to but mostly it was more of a fun thing to do, kind of a vacation from the work with Livestrong and other things.

The swedish guys (former cyclists) just said: Eehh, hmmmm... and then the broadcast ended.

Did anyone else catch this (eurosport viewers of course)? I can't find any link for it yet but I will try. Was he joking? It all was quite strange.

Or, was the interview from a few days back and I just missed it before?

Anyone?

PS A good portion of rivalry will not be a bad thing for next years TdF, potential to the best one in a long time.

 

[Publicus]

sure can't. If Alberto was at the front, it would all be crystal clear.

Yes, because the MJ should be pacing a domestique up the mountain.

The video is inconclusive to the point of Fulcrum's post.

 

[scribe]

Here is what we learned today about Contador's leadership skills and what he expects out of his team when he is the king of his next team....because if you don't, regardless if he wins the race, he will rat out his teammates in the press after the race.

#1 Stay out of my seat
#2 I run on my own time, so I expect the team to wait for me.
#3 All gestures from other riders during a ******* mountain stage are meant for me, King Contador.

 

[Publicus]

Strangest thing happened during the summarizing show on Eurosport yesterday.

I watch it in swedish but the broadcast is the same, regarding cameras, interviews etc.

The broadcast ended with an interview with Lance where he said that he will be back next year in style. This year he took it all light hearted and it was more like a fun thing to do for him and a great stage for his Livestrong project.

The interviewer asked him if he was serious about the light hearted statement and Lance said yes, he meant it was obviously displayed by his attitude and that the whole peloton saw that he was light hearted about this year. He was serious when he had to but mostly it was more of a fun thing to do, kind of a vacation from the work with Livestrong and other things.

The swedish guys (former cyclists) just said: Eehh, hmmmm... and then the broadcast ended.

Did anyone else catch this (eurosport viewers of course)? I can't find any link for it yet but I will try. Was he joking? It all was quite strange.

Or, was the interview from a few days back and I just missed it before?

Anyone?

PS A good portion of rivalry will not be a bad thing for next years TdF, potential to the best one in a long time.

Without having seen the video, it looks like Lance is engaging in a little revisionism. Mr. Armstrong was quite adamant about why he was at the Tour and it wasn't about cancer awareness.

 

[fulcrum]

Maybe, maybe not. Both Alberto and Lance had bottles. But we don't know if they had any water. If they did, why would Lance need to drink from an opponent's?

As the article said, the image is misleading because it was lacking context. By the time they show the riders, Lance is already all the way up to Ivan, but you can see Alberto moving to his right as if Lance had gotten in his way.

The Lance taking a sip and passing it to Alberto doesn't contradict the article, neither does the fact that Lance makes a gesture to keep the bottle (they have two cages in the bike). You cannot see Ivan at that point, but he could have been telling Armstrong "get me that bottle back". So the video seems inconclusive to me. I'd rather see the 5 seconds preceding that moment.

PD: in fact, if you look at the image, you can kind of see the latter part of a Lance launch for the bottle at around 3:59.

Actually, I take some of it back. After further review, it is pretty clear that Lance does launch for the bottle around Contador. He passes on Contador's right and then turns towards the left to grab the bottle. Forcing Contador to move to his right. Just see the video a few times and keep an eye on Armstrong at all time, see where he starts and where he ends. IMO the video actually confirms the article.