Official London Olympics Doping thread

[FoxxyBrown1111]

From Professor Anthony Moffat, Emeritus professor of pharmaceutical analysis (that means he knows more than you and me) from UCL has responded to the latest nonsense from serial criminal Victor Conte:

"He (Conte) is wrong to think that the lab cannot detect a drug they have never seen before. They can work out its identity from analytical data. The methods being used will detect and identify any new such drugs even if they do not recognise what they are straight away."

He went on to say tha tthese were the cleanest games in recent times.

Yep sure. Especially when women sprinters look like bouncers nowadays. As said in an earlier post responding to one of your posts: Dream on in fantasy world.

 

[TheInternet]

From the official iaaf homepage.

Edit: Ahh, ok i see. At his homepage he is listed 1.95 and 94 kg. Either iaaf.org is lying or Bolt, or iaaf has older numbers (pre 2008?). Anyway, however we look at it, it makes Bolt even more doubtful: Growing 2 cm once being an adult? Where did i hear that before? Ahh yes, Barry Bonds head size grew reported by DER SPIEGEL over the years. HGH.
Gaining 18 kg and getting faster? Well that reminds me of.... Yeah, Ben Johnson. Steroids.
Add in the Kelli White story: Nowadays even sprinters take Epo...

Well, well, Bolt is a big doper...

FWIW, Carl Lewis thinks he's an inch shorter, and Bolt's height and weight on the IAAF bio is supposedly from 2002. Nobody ever grew after age 16.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Unfortunatly, Lance's "most talented" image stained one universal for many people: the most talented athletes will be the best. It will always be an exceptional body that is on top. Thats just by definition. The argument that an athletes uniqueness is an indicator of doping is unfound (not that anyone is making it). But, we cannot dismiss the fact that the best athletes will be unique, and doing something newer or better than everyone else.

The large performance jumps can be attributed in part to some of the deepest short sprint competition the league has seen. Obviously, a deep field raises the necessity to dope, but competition always drives performance (dirty and clean). Even Tyson Gay (I think is a good barometer for clean performance) ran a (very) windy 9.6 prior to Beijing when trying to make a statement to Bolt. I find nothing suspicious in performance jumps alone, and suspicion should on their circumstances. Particularly telling are late-career resurgences, among others.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

... or that a alleged non doper beats a field of dopers in a competion truly spoiled since the mid/late eighties.

 

[TheInternet]

Mid/late 60's.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

FWIW, Carl Lewis thinks he's an inch shorter, and Bolt's height and weight on the IAAF bio is supposedly from 2002. Nobody ever grew after age 16.

LOL. You say it´s 2002. And i say it´s from 2007, just one year before his transformation. Very few (if any) ever grew by 2 cm after grown up.

 

[hiero2]

From Professor Anthony Moffat, Emeritus professor of pharmaceutical analysis (that means he knows more than you and me) from UCL has responded to the latest nonsense from serial criminal Victor Conte:

"He (Conte) is wrong to think that the lab cannot detect a drug they have never seen before. They can work out its identity from analytical data. The methods being used will detect and identify any new such drugs even if they do not recognise what they are straight away."

He went on to say tha tthese were the cleanest games in recent times.

Source, please. Google doesn't turn up this quote.

 

[TheInternet]

LOL. You say it´s 2002. And i say it´s from 2007, just one year before his transformation. Very few (if any) ever grew by 2 cm after grown up.

LOL. I say it's 2002 because the IAAF bio you posted cites the 2002 Central American and Caribbean Youth Championships as the source of the information. Very few (if any) actually read what they don't want to hear, even after when grown up


The difference is this: I read and reported the information as posted in his bio (the same bio you are using for your argument), and you hand-picked a year that is convenient for your argument.

BTW,
IAAF Bio (claimed source of info: 2002 Central American and Caribbean Youth Championships); height:1.93m, weight: 76kg
IAAF Profile (written 2006, edited 2007); height: 1.96m, weight: 86kg 1-2 years before transformation
ABC Athlete Profile (2008); height: 1.96m, weight: 88kg The miraculous 0.00m, 2kg transformation!
Usain Bolt Bio (presumably current); height: 1.95m, weight: 94kg

 

[D-Queued]

...


Welcome back to reality. I mean it´s clear they always sell a new "science" to make fans believe unreal performances. With Ben Johnson it was necessary to have a big bulk for an explosive start. In reality his roid use improved the backend of his sprints.

Then came Michael Johnson. It was said you need small but powerful steps (exact the opposite to Bolt. LOL. How can people forget this nonsense? It was all powerful drugs that allowed him to prevent slow downs at the end of his runs). His record was as un-natural as ever before (bettering a altitute 19.72 to 19.32 just in time came the home games. ).

And now it´s Bolt: Height, high leg lift BS, big steps and other nonsense. As if the runners before 1990 were dwarfs who couldn´t run.

Exactly. Very well stated.

If Bolt were shorter, we would be introduced to toe-nail cutting science to explain his performances.

As for Bolt's running partner, it is obviously the 'claw' pose for the camera that makes him 1s faster than the field.

Sometimes the obvious answer is obvious.

Dave.

 

[The Hitch]

Usain Bolt clocked 20.61 at 15. Unless you think he was doping then- and surely not even the most ridiculous of you (and that's a fair number) do- then taking 1.2 seconds off your time from 15-25 isn't unreasonable.

Some people on here try to back up their arguments, and whilst I disagree that's fair enough.

The people that are totally out of order are the mindless mudslingers who simply say: "Bolt lol," or condemn Enniss for being "too dominant," whilst ignoring the fac tthat many of her main rivals had particularly poor competitions.

I have even seen people throwing totally baseless allegations against Coe and Redgrave, again because their achievements were deemed to be too good.

If you simply dismiss anyone successful out of hand then anyone out there who sweats their guts out their whole life to achieve anything should just give up.

Some people do just excel. Don Bradman really was twice as good (statistically) as any other batsmen. Was Jim Thorpe on drugs in 1912? Jesse Owens?

It really depresses me that, in this day and age, people would highlight sa photo of a female Chinese athelete, who does not meet Western ideals of feminism and beauty, and all have a laugh. "Look how big and muscular she is. Drugs!"

Do you think that particularly camp men are all on feminising drugs?? No. Some men are born to have deep voices and hairy backs, some aren't. Some women are born with differing chemical balances within them. Some are born to model, some are born to throw.

You really spoil the credibility of the site by just chucking allegations round wildly.

The site really went into conspiracy overload when allegations about fixing the football came up. Why? Who benefits? Do you not understand the chance of that being leaked outweigh any benefit in doing it?

Are there dopers? Yes. Do those who haven't been caught, or had their names come up in files from a lab, or had twelve witnesses say they saw them do it deserve to be presumed to be clean? YES.

In an earlier post strangely reminiscent of a former troll who thankfully hasn't posted in a while, you accused " everyone in the.clinic" of holding the same opinion and EVERYONE who posts here (though presumably with the exception of you) of being out of touch with reality and that sanity belonges exclusively to the fans and journalists of the status quo


And yet was it not your beloved bbc who kept talking about how the chinese swimmer must be doping and the bbc as well as the daily mail who screamed "doping " when an Algerian with not a bone in his.closet, won the 1500.

Your whole perfect world view about how everyone else is rational and the clinic is the clin asylum doesn't seem to make.much sense when the people who you look up to as the spearheads of reason and justice, will resort to the d word with as much abandon as the most trigger happy clinic poster, provided that someone is not too big to fall, which is actually worse than say the hog because it mixes the -i decide if someone dopes logic with cowardice and even racial profiling.

 

[The Hitch]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics--usain-bolt-rips-carl-lewis---i-have-no-respect-for-him-.html

Earlier in the same press conference, a U.S. reporter began to ask Bolt a doping question about the Jamaican track team and erroneously referred to it as "the Jamaican drug team." The reporter then quickly corrected himself and asked if the public could believe the Jamaicans were a clean team. "Without a doubt," Bolt said, gesturing to his teammates Yohan Blake and Warren Weir, who captured silver and bronze in Thursday’s 200 meters. "These guys train hard."

Warren Weir went from 20.43 to 19.84 in one year. He must have trained really hard!

Wait, he just answered the question? He didnt call the questioner a "f****** w****" or anything?

 

[D-Queued]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics--usain-bolt-rips-carl-lewis---i-have-no-respect-for-him-.html





Warren Weir went from 20.43 to 19.84 in one year. He must have trained really hard!

New shoes. Works every time.

Dave.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

LOL. I say it's 2002 because the IAAF bio you posted cites the 2002 Central American and Caribbean Youth Championships as the source of the information. Very few (if any) actually read what they don't want to hear, even after when grown up

Triple LOL back. I still say 2007.
To enlighten you, i´ll answer: The information has nothing to do with Ht/Wt etc.! It´s cited achievements outside of IAAF championships. If you look at Carl Lewis you´ll find his national titels, if you look at Tyson Gay you´ll find his (btw no numbers of Ht/Wt posted , even tough his information is filled with titles).
Don´t ever accuse me of something i didn´t do. I have nothing cherry picked, posted complete numbers and reasonable thoughts to back the obvious points. OTOH i gave hints to all readers that Lewis doped with cough medicine. Why should i do that if i do cherry picking?

Don´t try to hide the obvious: Bolt´s performance jumps were never seen before, including heavy dopers like Ben Johnson, Tim Montgomery or Justin Gatlin. And that he & his suddenly become world class sprinters hide in no testing heaven Jamaica.
There is no doubt that Bolt is an as heavy doper as say Armstrong or Ben Johnson.

 

[hiero2]

From Professor Anthony Moffat, Emeritus professor of pharmaceutical analysis (that means he knows more than you and me) from UCL has responded to the latest nonsense from serial criminal Victor Conte:

"He (Conte) is wrong to think that the lab cannot detect a drug they have never seen before. They can work out its identity from analytical data. The methods being used will detect and identify any new such drugs even if they do not recognise what they are straight away."

He went on to say tha tthese were the cleanest games in recent times.

My 1st request for the source on this has been buried by other posts. If ANYBODY knows a source for this statement, please post a link. I want to read it.

 

[TheInternet]

Don´t ever accuse me of something i didn´t do.

The argument of a doper, no?

Don´t try to hide the obvious...

I never questioned the obvious, nor have I attempted to hide it. Stick to the facts: I pointed out that you have no basis to relate changes in Bolt's height to anything that occurred after 2007.

 

[Centurion]

U.S. women set world record in 4x100m relay.

Previous record stood for 27 Years.
Beating the old World record by 0.55 seconds.

http://www.cbssports.com/olympics/b...940/us-women-set-world-record-in-4x100m-relay

 

[therealtimshady]

U.S. women set world record in 4x100m relay.

Previous record stood for 27 Years.
Beating the old World record by 0.55 seconds.

http://www.cbssports.com/olympics/b...940/us-women-set-world-record-in-4x100m-relay

Got to be suspicious - as let's face it the previous wr by the east Germans was dodgier than Liverpool fc's transfer policy

 

[will10]

Jamaicans were just outside old WR also I believe.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Got to be suspicious - as let's face it the previous wr by the east Germans was dodgier than Liverpool fc's transfer policy

Indeed.

I don't mean "within the clinic suspicious" either.

That's family dinner table discussion suspicious.

 

[buckle]

U.S. women set world record in 4x100m relay.

Previous record stood for 27 Years.
Beating the old World record by 0.55 seconds.

http://www.cbssports.com/olympics/b...940/us-women-set-world-record-in-4x100m-relay

US Men's 4x 400 looked normal. What's happened to Amercian 1/4 milers - have they all got religion?

 

[Benotti69]

David Matthews(former 800m runner) and Jerry Kiernan(former marathon runner) both who represented Ireland in the past at the Olympics were on Irish TV just there and were'nt happy one bit with Asli Cakir Alptekin winning the 1500m. Both practically accused her of doping. They obviously spoke about her past but were very sceptical of her performance tonight and Kiernan said her win 6 weeks ago in Helsinki in the European Championships with a final lap of 58 secs was very suspicious. She also done a 58 secs final lap tonight. David Matthews sarcastically said maybe we should start using Turkish coaches in Ireland to be successful.

Turkish coach a new name for EPO?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yea, just four hundredths outside it.

I liked having those old East German records still there. It provided a sense of legitimacy, in that "well, even with the advances of the last 20 years, they still can't beat those doped freaks from the DDR". But now they can. Not just beat them, but obliterate them. The last remaining DDR World Record in athletics has just fallen.

Here's Let'srun.com's account of querying Carmelita Jeter's and Jason Richardson's associating with banned agent Mark Block, who is two years into a ten year ban. Here's Carmelita's response:

I'm going to count to ten, only because I'm up here, I just won a bronze medal for the United States of America. I am a woman that has a medal in the 100 and 200 now.

For me to be asked about my relationship with someone bothers me, but you can ask me anything else other than that but I will answer you.

Mark Block is a close friend of mine. He's a very close friend of mine and I love him dearly. Whatever happened with Mark Block before I came to Mark Block has absolutely nothing to do with me. I love that man. I love his family. I love his daughter. And I don't know how some people are raised but I was raised to always be friends with someone and to have loyalty with people.

And if he got in trouble for whatever he got in trouble for that does not mean I still do not care for him, that does not mean I do not still consider him a close friend of mine because that is exactly what he is. Now, yes, he was banned for the time you said. That does not mean, that he cannot be of management. He cannot be an agent. He comes to meets that I am at, because he is a great supporter of mine.

Also, here's an SI article that references that, among other things. Some interesting notes in here, particularly comments by former WADA chief (Richard) Pound:

It's short of suspicion: I would never go out and say I'm suspicious of his results, but they're so remarkable that even though he is 6-foot-whatever-he-is and runs like a cat rather than a tank in the old steroidal model, the improvement is so far off the curve that you have to wonder if it's entirely natural. I hope it is -- but you wonder. That's the price you pay for allowing this doping to get out of control

Also notable is Victor Conte's presence:

Conte, a convicted felon, showed up in The Times of London to say he was working with U.S. sprinter Ryan Bailey, who finished fifth in the 100 final here, and bronze-medal-winning U.S. boxer Marlen Esparza]

More from Pound:

Pound said that Conte's estimate of 60 percent dirty is probably high, though, "frankly, as somebody on the inside he's probably more likely to know than we are." His guess? "It's north of 10 and short of 90 [percent]," Pound says, "but it's more than people expect.

"Yet we consistently are finding only between one and two percent of all the tests we do as positive. So something is wrong here: Either we're not testing the right people or there's stuff out there we don't know about or we can't get at the right people at the right time. That's discouraging."

 

[BroDeal]

Turkish coach a new name for EPO?

Turkish swim coaches are where it's at.

 

[terribleone]

Michael Johnson was equally damning on the Turkish 1500m runner, having already been suspended etc. He was on BBC and said that, "she served her suspension and will get tested tonight. No news is good news." although given what Pound and Conte are saying above it seems like there is some new methods that are difficult to trace...

I'm wondering if the Algerian that won the 1500m will face the same tests and if frozen samples are being retained? Obviously coaches and national teams are onto new method and the questionnaire where over 50% of athletes would dope to win gold, even if they were going to die within 4 years. Given that the peloton have been trying fairly randomly, new pills and potions without a second thought for the future. Maybe we'll just see more athletes dying off sooner.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Exactly. Very well stated.

If Bolt were shorter, we would be introduced to toe-nail cutting science to explain his performances.

As for Bolt's running partner, it is obviously the 'claw' pose for the camera that makes him 1s faster than the field.

Sometimes the obvious answer is obvious.

Dave.

I love your posts. Sarcasm mixed with cynism that makes me laugh. Actually you managed the square of the circle.

U.S. women set world record in 4x100m relay.

Previous record stood for 27 Years.
Beating the old World record by 0.55 seconds.

http://www.cbssports.com/olympics/b...940/us-women-set-world-record-in-4x100m-relay

Jamaicans were just outside old WR also I believe.

Yep, both teams beat respectively almost beat the record of the GDR "women". It´s monsters vs. aliens. The aliens finally prevailed.