Official thread: le Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré

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Mar 12, 2009
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Geez everyone keeps saying -
Contador won't be riding like that in July.
Contador has an extra gear

well to be honest he looked toasted to me, July is not too far away and if you ask me Evan's is shortening in my odds book for the tour and I've been far from impressed with AC.

Also consider that S-L look a much more stronger and together unit and maybe this bloke that "won't ever win the Tour" might prove a few wrong, let's not forget he's only been seconds away in the past.
 
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Anonymous

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lookkg386 said:
Geez everyone keeps saying -
Contador won't be riding like that in July.
Contador has an extra gear

well to be honest he looked toasted to me, July is not too far away and if you ask me Evan's is shortening in my odds book for the tour and I've been far from impressed with AC.

Also consider that S-L look a much more stronger and together unit and maybe this bloke that "won't ever win the Tour" might prove a few wrong, let's not forget he's only been seconds away in the past.
....and he will be even further back this year. It's OK, we Yanks understand, we always think its going to be Hincape's time to win before P-R every year too.

I will give Cadel props, he did finally ride like a man today....or yesterday where you are.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Well according to a lot of people Evans won't win the tour....but neither might Contador or any of the favourites for that matter.

We saw for the first time since I don't know when S-L have someone up the road comeback and provide support for Evan's. Perhaps they have finally realised (or not) that they actually need to provide support if they wanna chance at winning anything??!?!:p

BTW. There is nothing wrong,with being patriotic and showing support for your countries rider(s) in a race. Or for that fact being hopefull that they may actually get up and win.:D
 
Apr 11, 2009
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180mmCrank said:
Is there is a touch of some forward thinking (politcs) by Contador.

So is there some Spanish collusion? I can't believe Contador is particularly happy at Astana - the future of the team at best looks uncertain. Is this all foreplay before he makes the jump to replace (the essentially banned) Valverde at Caisse d'Epargne? (for 2010? or sooner?). It's not hard to see that he might be happier riding for a Spanish team.
Good point--and Evans agreed in his remarks afterward about collusion/collaboration, whatever. Seems that Contador closed the gap on Evans EVERY single time dragging Valverde back up, BUT with no apparent intention of winning. Smart, but I don't like riders riding by nationality when it's not their home tour (fine if Italians cooperate in the Giro--which they don't usually manage to do, LOL, but not in the Tour etc.)

It's part of the problem with Puerto (Spanish auths. are protecting Spanish athletes, eg. Nadal, for one, whose combo of speed and endurance belie his size). He moves like Agassi while built like a Rhinoceros.:rolleyes: Have always wondered about his amazing ability to recuperate from five set matches while carrying the weight/muscle that he does :(

The Spanish seem to stick together too much. Wondering who would help Lotto at Tour in response. Quickstep?

Addition: MSJett, no disagreement with supporting home country riders, but I just wish teams of same nationality wouldn't do it. It hurts someone who deserves to win and who has the ability to win, like Cadel.

But also interesting how it works the reverse way at World Road Championships, where pro team allegiances can override national team identities, LOL.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Parrot23 said:
Good point--and Evans agreed in his remarks afterward. Seems that Contador closed the gap on Evans EVERY single time dragging Valverde back up, BUT with no apparent intention of winning. Smart, but I don't like riders riding by nationality when it's not their home tour (fine if Italians cooperate in the Giro--which they don't usually manage to do, LOL, but not in the Tour etc.)

It's part of the problem with Puerto (Spanish auths. are protecting Spanish athletes, eg. Nadal, for one, whose combo of speed and endurance belie his size). He moves like Agassi while built like a Rhinoceros.:rolleyes: Have always wondered about his amazing ability to recuperate from five set matches while carrying the weight/muscle that he does :(

The Spanish seem to stick together too much. Wondering who would help Lotto at Tour. Quickstep?

Addition: MSJett, no disagreement with supporting home country riders, but I just wish teams of same nationality wouldn't do it. It hurts and individual with the ability to win, like Cadel.
It was more directed to fans of their own countries riders, sometimes it comes across, that people are implying your an idiot for being patriotic believing that your countries rider(s) have a chance of winning because they read your comments and consider you as being naive and that you know nothing.

Think back to last years tour.....I felt that Valverde got involved with other riders in tactics to mess with Evans (to great effect I should add) on a climb.... He already had the Schleks messing with him, I seem to remember it was another spanish rider (Sastre) that went on to win (could be pure coincidence and I have to say, there is no doubt Sastre was up to the task)...So you have a good point about them sticking together.

But whether it's just we are all friends or there is a compensation of sorts I wouldn't know!:p
 
Apr 1, 2009
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lookkg386 said:
Contador won't be riding like that in July.
Contador has an extra gear
Plus, if Armstrong is at all competitive, then Contador will be riding for him.
He owes him big time.
And with Bruyneel saying that Contador is the man to lead Astana in the Tour, that certainly confirms that Armstrong is going to lead the team.
 
patswana said:
Plus, if Armstrong is at all competitive, then Contador will be riding for him.
He owes him big time.
And with Bruyneel saying that Contador is the man to lead Astana in the Tour, that certainly confirms that Armstrong is going to lead the team.
Is this a Riddle?:confused::confused:
How come Contador owes LA anything at all? FYI Bruyneel already made the cut:
Contador Leads & Levi is second shut. LA is the THIRD man:cool::cool:
 
Apr 1, 2009
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hfer07 said:
Is this a Riddle?
How come Contador owes LA anything at all? FYI Bruyneel already made the cut:
Contador Leads & Levi is second shut. LA is the THIRD man
Contador won the '08 Giro, beating Ricco & Sella, both of whom later tested positive to CERA. After they tested positive, there were many calls to test the '08 Giro samples retrospectively. This would potentially have caught Contador, who won it without even training for it properly.
The Giro organisers announced in quick succession two things:
1. Armstrong would ride the Giro in '09.
2. There would be no further testing of the '08 samples.
That is why Contador owes Armstrong.

You can ignore what Bruyneel says. He prefers Armstrong and owes his fame and fortune to him. We know he is not that smart. He thinks being a clever tactician is telling people Contador is the team leader but then surprising us with Armstrong being the #1 on the team. The only thing that will stop this is Armstrong not being competitive.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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patswana said:
Contador won the '08 Giro, beating Ricco & Sella, both of whom later tested positive to CERA. After they tested positive, there were many calls to test the '08 Giro samples retrospectively. This would potentially have caught Contador, who won it without even training for it properly.
The Giro organisers announced in quick succession two things:
1. Armstrong would ride the Giro in '09.
2. There would be no further testing of the '08 samples.
That is why Contador owes Armstrong.

You can ignore what Bruyneel says. He prefers Armstrong and owes his fame and fortune to him. We know he is not that smart. He thinks being a clever tactician is telling people Contador is the team leader but then surprising us with Armstrong being the #1 on the team. The only thing that will stop this is Armstrong not being competitive.
So what you are saying is that had Contador ridden the Giro, that would have been cause enough to push forward with retrospective testing???

I am sorry but I cannot believe that as the reason for Contador not riding and owing anything to Armstrong. As far as favouritism goes we know that Bruyneel is all for Armstrong....but I cannot imagine him as being so dumb to put Armstrong over Contador no matter what the reasoning.:confused:
 
Apr 1, 2009
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msjett said:
So what you are saying is that had Contador ridden the Giro, that would have been cause enough to push forward with retrospective testing???
No. Armstrong's presence at the Giro made the Giro organisers a lot of money & brought a lot of attention to the race. For this, they stopped any further retrospective testing from being done, which was good news for Astana.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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patswana said:
No. Armstrong's presence at the Giro made the Giro organisers a lot of money & brought a lot of attention to the race. For this, they stopped any further retrospective testing from being done, which was good news for Astana.
If that is the case possibly not the only team is was good news for...:p
 
Mar 18, 2009
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patswana said:
No. Armstrong's presence at the Giro made the Giro organisers a lot of money & brought a lot of attention to the race. For this, they stopped any further retrospective testing from being done, which was good news for Astana.
But they are being tested retrospectively, but by the police (I think) rather than the Giro organizers.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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msjett said:
If that is the case possibly not the only team is was good news for...
True, but they were just worried about Contador and therefore Astana/Discovery reputation. It would have put further questions over Armstrong if his team's new leader was busted.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Too little too late...I had thought the reason why Contador and co rode the Giro last year was because they were not invited at the time to take part in TDF? Or had that not been decided?
 
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Anonymous

Guest
patswana said:
Contador won the '08 Giro, beating Ricco & Sella, both of whom later tested positive to CERA. After they tested positive, there were many calls to test the '08 Giro samples retrospectively. This would potentially have caught Contador, who won it without even training for it properly.
The Giro organisers announced in quick succession two things:
1. Armstrong would ride the Giro in '09.
2. There would be no further testing of the '08 samples.
That is why Contador owes Armstrong.

You can ignore what Bruyneel says. He prefers Armstrong and owes his fame and fortune to him. We know he is not that smart. He thinks being a clever tactician is telling people Contador is the team leader but then surprising us with Armstrong being the #1 on the team. The only thing that will stop this is Armstrong not being competitive.
i wondered when the 08 Giro samples would come up.

Am I right in observing that they are not testing those samples because they fear all the best riders would have ended up out of the sport for 2 years?

anybody know what the claim their reason it.

------
lance went to the giro to help levi win it. not to keep contador way. contador is doing focus training, which is what the Dauphine is, preparing for july.
contador was off the bike 28 days in may then does this race. then he goes to practice ride the tour mountains.
lance is NOT number 1 on the team. actually he's no 3, levi is no2... and as well as klooden is riding, he's lucky he's not no4. chris horner looked good with levi before he crashed, so maybe lance ends up behind him too. maybe lance and popo will get the water bottles.:rolleyes:
no, actually i think lance will ride well. but he's not no1 unless Bertie falters.

levi and lance are training in colorado. today doing 5 hrs in the mountains climbing steep hard dirt roads. yesterday he did his interview next to woody creek tavern where Hunter S Thompson use to hang out. he was doing time trial training. claims he beat levi. :D
 
Apr 1, 2009
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msjett said:
Too little too late...I had thought the reason why Contador and co rode the Giro last year was because they were not invited at the time to take part in TDF? Or had that not been decided?
I don't really see what relevance the reasons for riding the '08 Giro have to this. I'm just saying that Armstrong riding in '09 was a boom for the Organisers. Not testing the '08 samples was a bonus for Contador. And also for the organisers too, in that the embarrassment of having the winner test positive a few months later would make them look bad.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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jackhammer111 said:
lance went to the giro to help levi win it. not to keep contador way.
Contador riding or not riding the '09 Giro again is not relevant to this. It was the presence of Armstrong that was a major bonus for the coffers of the Giro people.
 
Jun 13, 2009
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Whoever said Contador has an extra gear ...

+1 from me!

Really, disaster would have to strike for him to lose the tour (and hey it could). Respect to Evans, Sastre, Menchov, Armstrong, etc but Contador is really a step up on all these guys now. Can time trial and climb better than most and he's in the prime of his career.

It's a reflection on the rest on that list that I would almost rate the old guy with the mending collar bone as second favorite.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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subzro said:
Whoever said Contador has an extra gear ...

+1 from me!

Really, disaster would have to strike for him to lose the tour (and hey it could). Respect to Evans, Sastre, Menchov, Armstrong, etc but Contador is really a step up on all these guys now. Can time trial and climb better than most and he's in the prime of his career.

It's a reflection on the rest on that list that I would almost rate the old guy with the mending collar bone as second favorite.
I have heard a rumour that the Tour riders will be in a "rider compound" throughout the '09 Tour with very limited people able to access the riders, to try to stop the Ferraris, Cecchinis, Fuentes etc from getting in. If this is true, then maybe Contador won't have that extra gear quite as much.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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patswana said:
Contador riding or not riding the '09 Giro again is not relevant to this. It was the presence of Armstrong that was a major bonus for the coffers of the Giro people.
Simply asking the question...also its too little to late relates to retrospective testing by anyone from 08 samples.

And what the hell does this whole conversation have to do with the dauphine libere if you are going to start nit picking?:p
 
Jun 13, 2009
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subzro said:
Whoever said Contador has an extra gear ...

+1 from me!

Really, disaster would have to strike for him to lose the tour (and hey it could). Respect to Evans, Sastre, Menchov, Armstrong, etc but Contador is really a step up on all these guys now. Can time trial and climb better than most and he's in the prime of his career.

It's a reflection on the rest on that list that I would almost rate the old guy with the mending collar bone as second favorite.


patswana said:
I have heard a rumour that the Tour riders will be in a "rider compound" throughout the '09 Tour with very limited people able to access the riders, to try to stop the Ferraris, Cecchinis, Fuentes etc from getting in. If this is true, then maybe Contador won't have that extra gear quite as much.
I said he only had one extra gear ... not three!

Seriously, if I had cause to suspect Contador was on something now, then I really have no basis not to suspect most of the others are too. I prefer the assumption that the pack is being cleaned up, and this has been the case for awhile.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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subzro said:
I said he only had one extra gear ... not three!

Seriously, if I had cause to suspect Contador was on something now, then I really have no basis not to suspect most of the others are too. I prefer the assumption that the pack is being cleaned up, and this has been the case for awhile.
If you believe Contador is either clean or the same level of "dirty" as the rest of the peloton, then I have a bridge to sell you!
 
Jun 3, 2009
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180mmCrank said:
It certainly looked that way - Valverde seemed to be at his limit - and it seems a one week stage race is about as far as he can go - after that it seems to go a bit pear shaped. I don't know if this a mental or a physical thing - maybe a bit of both.

Contador will not be riding like that in July - he has an extra gear.

And I agree Evans will have to win this in the ITT and defend or follow in the mountains. This will be good enough to get him close or onto the podium but not good enough to win. It will be good enough to beat most of the climbers including Schleck but harder to mangage Sastre and even Armstrong. Not the way to beat Contador. And Menchov can do what Cadel can do but possibly a little better. I think it's going to require a certain amount of circumstance and good fortune for Cadel to be on the top step of the TdF podium.

But with a ITT and Mont Ventoux in the last few days when people are tired...all sorts of things could happen. It's why I think it's going to be a fascinating race. :D:D
Yeah, with those last 2 stages it will be a problem. Cadel has to be yellow after the ITT but then it will be his teams responsibility to drive the pack. Then on the climb he will probably be isolated and be the one again who has to do all the chasing if someone close gets away, with no help like the day before yesterday (on the same climb). Hopefully Matty Llyod and VDB can be as good then as they were yesterday (even though Cadel didn't gain any time).

Also Cadel doesn't seem to get stronger as a 3 week race gets towards the end, unlike some others.
 
Cancellara absolutely monstered yesterday's Tour du Suisse prologue, having been totally anonymous all season.
If the Schlecks show anything near the same level of improvement...well...all I can say is watch out.

Dark horse for the Tour podium is Roman Kreuziger, who is getting better and better. Can do it all.
If Cadel's team had shown up three days earlier, on the Ventoux, he would have walked the Dauphine.
Valverde has been really fortunate this week, in having an extra team mate in the shape of Contador.
Maybe, the shape of things to come?
 

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