Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

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Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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Billie said:
Ballan, Pozzata, Flecha and co was loaded field in the early Boonen years. They are not to be underrated.

The Boonen years were earlier than Cancellara years. I think Boonen had a lot more competition than Cancellara (especially 13-14 was not stacked fields).

One big difference anyway is that it was easy to take Hincapie, Hoste, Flecha to the finish line, they were always happy to work to stay away and no threat at all to win a 2 or 3 man sprint.
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There were also guys like Hushovd, Nuyens and O´Grady (he had a really good run 2003-2007).

When we really think about there were strong fields back then as well, better then some would like to portray.

I think the biggest difference is that a lot of teams rode for one leader. Great riders who could have won as well if given the opportunity, but they were helpers. The hierarchy was different. There are some teams who still ride for one leader, but a lot of teams brings a couple of options and co-leaders these days. The strategy is different. The helpers are used differently, more than just protecting their leader. That the field is stronger these days is somewhat of a false illusion.

I dont think a rider like Boonen would have fared worse, since he would have probably been able to follow early moves and make the final selection. I dont think he would be dropped and had nothing to do with the win.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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Salvarani said:
There were also guys like Hushovd, Nuyens and O´Grady (he had a really good run 2003-2007).

When we really think about there were strong fields back then as well, better then some would like to portray.

I think the biggest difference is that a lot of teams rode for one leader. Great riders who could have won as well if given the opportunity, but they were helpers. The hierarchy was different. There are some teams who still ride for one leader, but a lot of teams brings a couple of options and co-leaders these days. The strategy is different. The helpers are used differently, more than just protecting their leader. That the field is stronger these days is somewhat of a false illusion.

I dont think a rider like Boonen would have fared worse, since he would have probably been able to follow early moves and make the final selection. I dont think he would be dropped and had nothing to do with the win.
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Hushovd never got top 10 at de Ronde.

The one thing that makes competition hard to discuss is that ultimately it's a 0 sum game, every race has one winner so you're judging the competition of a period by the distribution of results, as you cannot test the field of one race against the field of the other. In some ways arguments inevitably get somewhat circular.

In my opinion the best riders for a strong competition are riders that score high consistently, like MvdP is a great barometer I think. Or Cancellara in the early 2010s. And I think a large amount of flukey results is the opposite of that, but this is very hard to say with cobbled classics and basically easier in other sports.

Finally, I think it's important to split between De Ronde and Roubaix, as they're quit different with quite a few riders being much better in one than the other, so if you mix them up I think you quickly start overestimating the competition of both.
 
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Salvarani

Oct 15, 2017
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Red Rick said:
Hushovd never got top 10 at de Ronde.

The one thing that makes competition hard to discuss is that ultimately it's a 0 sum game, every race has one winner so you're judging the competition of a period by the distribution of results, as you cannot test the field of one race against the field of the other. In some ways arguments inevitably get somewhat circular.

In my opinion the best riders for a strong competition are riders that score high consistently, like MvdP is a great barometer I think. Or Cancellara in the early 2010s. And I think a large amount of flukey results is the opposite of that, but this is very hard to say with cobbled classics and basically easier in other sports.

Finally, I think it's important to split between De Ronde and Roubaix, as they're quit different with quite a few riders being much better in one than the other, so if you mix them up I think you quickly start overestimating the competition of both.
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Ok. However, Hushovd won both G-W and Omloop. He had a few top 10s in other cobbles races as well, but you are correct that he didnt have much success in the Ronde. I think that was not the point I was making though.

Yes, and as I have alluded to it is a debate that becomes circular when you comparing eras. I think I said that in another post. There are just too many factors to consider.

I think what you originally said about Boonen is an opinion that I find very unlikely, but we will never know.

I think Boonen, Cancellara and a few others in their peak would have faired pretty well against the current field.
 
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Andre

Andre

Feb 1, 2020
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“I'm good enough to race and I’ll be competitive but I was supposed to start my season at Strade Bianche at 100%. Due to the circumstances, I’ll start racing at Tirreno a bit lower than 100% and I’ll be trying to catch up this week,” Van Aert revealed to Cyclingnews and other media in Italy on Sunday.
 
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Rackham

Rackham

Jul 16, 2015
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I don't know what it is but he seems... calmer? Like he's mellowed slightly. It seemed that despite not racing to win stages or whatnot at the front in Tirreno, he still appeared happy during the race. He clearly enjoyed blowing up the peloton on the cobbled climb yesterday as well, i.e. something some people questioned in terms of tactics... but it was still funny as hell & a great power flex, especially seeing Alaphilippe clearly ride up & say something afterwards (i.e. something like "have you finished yet?!").

Even his reaction when he collided with Pidcock in one of the early stages was super relaxed & cool. Just my impression.
 
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Valanga

Valanga

Apr 12, 2017
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Nick2413 said:
I know he just got over an illness but his form didn’t seem the greatest in TA, hopefully he can still hit a good peak for the spring classics.
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You must have seen a different TA. Me, and Alaphilippe (but what does he know ;-)) saw something completely different:

sporza.be

Julian Alaphilippe vond wat hij zocht in Tirreno: "De benen zijn in orde" | sporza

De beste Julian Alaphilippe hebben we dit seizoen nog niet gezien. De Fransman van Soudal-Quick Step won Milaan-Sanremo in 2019 en finishte ook nog eens 2 keer op het podium (2e in 2020, 3e in 2017). Vorig jaar miste hij de langste klassieker door ziekte, dit jaar hoopt hij opnieuw een glansrol...
sporza.be sporza.be

"But who impressed me the most last Saturday is Wout van Aert. He really did something crazy, he rode incredibly strong."

"He is in excellent form and he is definitely the big favorite for all the races to come."
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Valanga

Valanga

Apr 12, 2017
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Red Rick said:
Van Aert has one problem for Sanremo and is simply that Pogacar is in great shape too right now.

If Pogacar races like last year on the Poggio again he may just make them both lose again.
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It's not like Pogacar has many other options, does he?
So it will be van Aerts job to hang on again ... hope they get a gap and then try to win the 1 vs 1 sprint for once ;-)
 
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frisenfruitig

Jul 28, 2010
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Red Rick said:
Van Aert has one problem for Sanremo and is simply that Pogacar is in great shape too right now.

If Pogacar races like last year on the Poggio again he may just make them both lose again.
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I would like to see UAE tear things up at the Cipressa to make the race as tough as possible. You can attack 4 times on the Poggio but if the race has been too easy before that it just isn't enough to really drop enough of the fast guys. It happens too often that they just wait for the Poggio imo
 
Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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Valanga said:
It's not like Pogacar has many other options, does he?
So it will be van Aerts job to hang on again ... hope they get a gap and then try to win the 1 vs 1 sprint for once ;-)
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I don't know how good Van Aert was last time but I was surprised how much trouble he had following Pogacar on a 4% incline in the draft. Maybe he's simply better now. I was a bit surprised Pogacar didn't trust he could do it on the one 8% section on the Poggio
 
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