Ah I mischecked the month on Boonen, made the 1980 / 2012 equation. On Devolder I genuinely thought he was deep into the autumn of his career when he had his two wins.Boonen was 31 and Devolder was 29
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Ah I mischecked the month on Boonen, made the 1980 / 2012 equation. On Devolder I genuinely thought he was deep into the autumn of his career when he had his two wins.Boonen was 31 and Devolder was 29
Tbf Andrea Tafi and Johan Museeuw won several cobbled monuments past 35 if I'm not mistaken?Explosiveness is a super badly defined term generally anyway. Peak power and 20s power goes down more so than 1 minute-3 minute power. Valverde stopped doing real bunch sprints before he turned 30
Boonen not winning RvV after 31 is irrelevant. They are not nearly the same rider type. Boonen stopped competing in RvV because he was never all that great on the modern RvV route anyway and the game passed him by. Especially with newer bike setups being more forgiving for lighter riders on cobbles, RvV is way more of a hilly classic than it used to be. Like Tom Boonen would go to Eneco Tour every year and get murdered on the Muur van Geraardsbergen because in Eneco Tour they would actually drive it from bottom to top whereas in RvV they would just pubcrawl until the steep part starts.
I don't see why Van Aert can't be this level until his mid 30s. I don't see any younger dudes catching up to the Big 3. But this was Pogless RvV and therefor a bigger wasted opportunity than the last 2 years.
Maybe. But 'goals' are also a double edged sword, i.e. athletes can rush things because they want to recover as fast as possible.
Boonen didn't have a clean shot at Ronde from 2013 to 2015. Injuries and age did him in on the new route, not the climbs. I see nothing to suggest that it would have troubled him from 2005 to 2009.Explosiveness is a super badly defined term generally anyway. Peak power and 20s power goes down more so than 1 minute-3 minute power. Valverde stopped doing real bunch sprints before he turned 30
Boonen not winning RvV after 31 is irrelevant. They are not nearly the same rider type. Boonen stopped competing in RvV because he was never all that great on the modern RvV route anyway and the game passed him by. Especially with newer bike setups being more forgiving for lighter riders on cobbles, RvV is way more of a hilly classic than it used to be. Like Tom Boonen would go to Eneco Tour every year and get murdered on the Muur van Geraardsbergen because in Eneco Tour they would actually drive it from bottom to top whereas in RvV they would just pubcrawl until the steep part starts.
I don't see why Van Aert can't be this level until his mid 30s. I don't see any younger dudes catching up to the Big 3. But this was Pogless RvV and therefor a bigger wasted opportunity than the last 2 years.
For the hype this guy has, he won very little. No GC wins in 3 week or important 1 week races. No world titles or Olympic wins. Just one monument (Milano) and one half monument (Strade) many years ago. That's it.
Boonen was not in his prime in his 30's. I still think the old route was very hard and the Muur was even more suited to Pogacar than Kwaremont. A peak Pogacar would kill everyone (including MVP) in the Muur. Boonen was a different beast between 2005-2010 and he had by far the best team which made him very winnable during this period in cobbled classics.He was barely hanging on to Ballan and Pozzato in RvV the year he won Roubaix with a 60km solo by about 3 minutes. The Ronde field on average got way better at hilly terrain, and since 2012 the only rider with less hilly race cred than Boonen is probably Kristoff.
Fortunately has a couple of little brats to keep him occupied and help realise that there are other important things in his life.very true, its a fine line to tread and he needs a good set of people around him to tell him when the moment is right and when it isnt, which Im sure he'll have.
but I can assure you when youve worked as hard and sacrificed as much to get to this position for this season where he had big goals, to have that all taken away by a crash like that, which he no doubts blames himself for as well, he'll be endlessly replaying that moment and berating himself for why didnt he do something different, and with the amount of injuries, I mean a collarbone would be one thing but we know most riders bounce back pretty soon from that, but with the ribs and the sternum too, and then to say well thats seasons done, dont aim for anything this year.
he will find himself suffering from depression, the what could of been, the blame he puts on himself, will he get that chance again and so on and that can be even harder to overcome and recover from than the pure physical injuries alone without something to aim for.
something to target as a ok we're in a bad place at the moment, but if we focus and look forward, instead of back or at what might have been, at where we want to be next, it can be very self defeating, why train hard at all if all that happens is you get injured again, why bother ?
IMO elite sport is much more about mentality and mental strengthness, rather than the pure physicality, and he needs to target a race this season to aim for, he might not be ready in time for it and then has to pick a new goal, but without that kind of impetus behind his recovery, it will be much longer and more protracted, and he might not end up as good a rider as he was before.
You obviously aren’t a big cobbled classic fan as you’ve completely dismissed his prowess there. I mean, he beat Pogacar and MVDP straight up in E3 last year. Some of us put a lot of value on those races. I would still agree his accomplishments in monuments are disappointing. As for one-week stage races, he usually wasn’t there to win them given that Roglic and Vingegaard were his teammates.For the hype this guy has, he won very little. No GC wins in 3 week or important 1 week races. No world titles or Olympic wins. Just one monument (Milano) and one half monument (Strade) many years ago. That's it.
The rest are stage wins in GTs which is great of course. But overall, he's a man of many trades, but master of none. Time is not on his side. Now he'll have to work for Jonas again on TdF and try to win couple stages.
I think the issue is, so did Mathieu.Still, despite it all being hard and stuff he put his best numbers relative to other years just before the classics according to Heijboer.
He also failed to mention Amstel Gold...stupidity shown by his detractors is nothing new, though the commentary that he is a jack of all trades, but a master at none, has some validity. And, while 2nd places are not 1st places, his placings are well above some of the riders he is derogatoraily mentioned with. He is an overwhelming champion in another time that didn't include Mathieu. This is not an uncommon thing in cycling, but his haters love their hate so much, that getting them to recognize reality is a pointless exercise.You obviously aren’t a big cobbled classic fan as you’ve completely dismissed his prowess there. I mean, he beat Pogacar and MVDP straight up in E3 last year. Some of us put a lot of value on those races. I would still agree his accomplishments in monuments are disappointing. As for one-week stage races, he usually wasn’t there to win them given that Roglic and Vingegaard were his teammates.
Is he really that unlucky? It seems his main stroke of bad luck is having an opponent that is better than him in his main targets, which hardly seems like luck at all. He's missed races due to illness or injury, but everyone in the sport does (heck, that same main opponent had two down years due to a chronic injury that many thought could be career threatening). He also has been racing in the best team in cycling for the last half decade, which isn't luck either but surely can't hurt.Van Aert has a lot of big wins: MS, Strade, Gent-Wevelgem, Amstel, E3, Omloop, nine Tour stages, green jersey, three world titles cyclo-cross, and so on. Then there are all those silver and bronze medals. I'm tired of those haters who are always saying "it doesn't count". Of course it counts. He's one of the best and most versatile riders of the past six years, just incredibly unlucky.
He's certainly not too old to win classics in the future. Tchmil was 37 when he won the Tour of Flanders. Now Van Aert needs to deal with the situation mentally and give his body time to heal.
Well to be fair Van Aert does lead Van der Poel 2 to 1 in puncturing out of the lead at Cyclocross world championships. Then there was last years Paris-Roubaix. When he has bad luck it is on the big stage front and center.Is he really that unlucky?
Wout van Aert in Flanders and Roubaix the last 3 years:Is he really that unlucky? It seems his main stroke of bad luck is having an opponent that is better than him in his main targets, which hardly seems like luck at all. He's missed races due to illness or injury, but everyone in the sport does (heck, that same main opponent had two down years due to a chronic injury that many thought could be career threatening). He also has been racing in the best team in cycling for the last half decade, which isn't luck either but surely can't hurt.
He will probably win more monuments yet. He might not. But when it comes to luck, over a long career it generally averages out.
Mathieu is more explosive...but when he has to do that over 3 weeks of racing, he sh!ts the bed every time. Wout comes in 2nd a lot to Mathieu, but Mathieu drops out of races where Wout is winning stages. He's just weaker in that way, it's the groupetto for Mathieu on the hard days...Wout is up there dropping GT leaders for his team. Mathieu just doesn't have the engine to do that. Never will.
The hyperbole was rhetorical and intentional. However, Mathieu could not replicate what Wout does in the Tour. His strengths are not what is required to do so. He couldn't win Ventoux on his best day, he couldn't win the green jersey if he tried, he will never TT like Wout.Sh1ts the bed? We have 4 data points for MvdP in GTs, 3 where WVA also started.
Tour 2021: crazy first week from both, but specially from VDP - 1 stage, leading out Merlier for another, a superb time trial to keep yellow and a big duel with WVA on a hilly stage to keep yellow. Only faded on a MTF, out of his territory, and then DNF as planned to prepare for Tokyo MTB.
Giro 2022: 1 stage win and then constantly on the attack during the whole 3 weeks, even on mountain stages, finishing with a top-5 or top-10 on the final time trial. One could say he wasn't at his best, but lets not forget that he came from a winter where he was off his bike for a long period of time due to back issues, started training a month or so from the classics, and on Paris Roubaix and Amstel the decline in form was evident.
Tour 2022: Nowhere to be seen, even in the first stages. Probably overraced with a serious lack of base training to sustain the racing mileage he had done after the winter without training.
Tour 2023: Raced mostly in support of Philipsen and wasn't near his top shape but that was probably planned as we could see two weeks after in Glasgow.
Of course Mathieu will never do the kind of things Wout did in 2022 Tour, but so far I believe he never started a GT where we could say that he properly planned his shape to be the strongest there so we could see that he can keep his explosivity during the 3 weeks.
Very much doubt this part.he couldn't win the green jersey if he tried
I don't. He can lead out, but up against actual sprinters on a day to day basis, he loses a lot more than he wins.Very much doubt this part.
IIRC Van Aert had surgery a few weeks before the 2021 Tour. He grew into that Tour, and the day Van der Poel went under, Van Aert started to get into his groove.Tour 2021: crazy first week from both, but specially from VDP - 1 stage, leading out Merlier for another, a superb time trial to keep yellow and a big duel with WVA on a hilly stage to keep yellow. Only faded on a MTF, out of his territory, and then DNF as planned to prepare for Tokyo MTB.
It wasn't just the 2022 Tour. In 2021 he won on Ventoux, won the TT and on Champs Elysees the next dayOf course Mathieu will never do the kind of things Wout did in 2022 Tour, but so far I believe he never started a GT where we could say that he properly planned his shape to be the strongest there so we could see that he can keep his explosivity during the 3 weeks.
He doesn't need to win sprints. He just has to grab a lot of points. Systematically finishing top 5 - top 10, grabbing a win or two in hilly/classics stages... It's possible when guys like Van Aert (who is a better bunch sprinter, a better climber and a better stage racer all together) or Philipsen (who will basically top 3 every sprint, on top of winning 2, 3 or 4 stages) aren't competing.I don't. He can lead out, but up against actual sprinters on a day to day basis, he loses a lot more than he wins.