Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

[bNator]

At this point it's a disservice to Wout to constantly compare him to MVDP. The whole thing started in CX, but the reality is Wout has never been MVDP's equal in CX - the 3 straight WC's kind've masked the real story, which is MVDP beats him better than 2 out of 3 and is the greatest CX'er of all-time. He's not his equal as a 1-day classics rider either. Never has been, never will be. Wout is a better all-around road racer than MVDP. I doubt MVDP will ever win a TT, Champs-Elysees, or a mountain stage at the TDF - let alone all in the same one. Why isn't that enough?

Partly, that's also due to Wout's ambitions as a one day racer and I don't he himslef values his unique abilities as a stage racer either. That's where most of his success/reputation in road cycling comes from. Not classics or monuments but from Tour de France. And what does he do: trade TdF for a one day race

I think he should embrace the fact he is a beast in grand tours and prioritise that from now on - using one day races as training instead of putting them as the main goal for the season. But it doesn't matter what we think, it's what he wants...

 

[Volderke]

If you wanne see power for power you saw that in E3 this year, all flat(not even on the hills) - one seemingly toying with the other.

That was a 12K /19 minute stretch with 250 climbing meters and 3 hills: Paterberg, Oude Kwaremont and Karnemelkbeekstraat. So the equivalent to 4200 altitudinal meters if the whole race was like this.

It's clear MvdP was the better rider of both, but the intellectual dishonesty is staggering.

Try riding your very best on that stretch, i.e. Paterberg until the top of Karnemelkbeekstraat.
Next, give yourself a 30 second penalty, and try to beat your intermediate time on top of Kwaremont with 20 seconds (that's 3% faster), and see how fresh you are on top of Karnemelkbeekstraat.

It's only logics to see how WvA cracked (coming from altitude, no race rythm, on the back foot and against a better opponent), but to use this to extrapolate into Roubaix and say he is the level of Pedersen... is just garbage talk.

 

[Volderke]

Forget E3 if you want(not sure why you should do cause Mvdp had to do the exact same with less race days etc.. and that 30sec turned to 2min on pure numbers its not science...again not thowing dirt but at some point its just not even a stretch anymore to force something which is is not there) but look at WC, Flander last year if you want its not much that tell you he has the power Mvdp has? in fact its really far from it. Thats not dishonest to say Wva is not close to have the power Mvdp has its really not whe in fact hes never matched it.

I dont think you do Wva any favours by comparing him to Mvdp anymore, clearly its only Pog who has showed he can do anything to him. I said he was closer to Pedersen than he is to Mvdp im not throwing dirt I do think the results over the last years reflects that very well aswell.

Anyway im out of the Wva/Mvdp game wasnt my intention since its not really a debat but by saying he would easily follow I do wonder what youve seen over the last years ..its a disservice to Wva if anything at this point is my poinion and that guy is a beast and pure class act so by talking about him next to Mvdp he will always be talked down to instead of the praise he actually deserve.

And ive ridden those Paterberg, Karnemelkbeekstraat etc many times even with the said Wva.

Again, this shouldn't be too complicated:
we're talking about Roubaix. Not about RVV, not about E3, not about Glasgow.
It's about:
Would WvA have been able to follow MvdP's attack in Roubaix?
There are people who say he wouldn't, based on apples / oranges comparisons.
I'm refuting that.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I do believe VDP is in the end more talented, but for the classics.
However, Van Aert can run him closest in Roubaix, all it takes is a not super VDP and a Super Van Aert and Van Aert will beat him in Roubaix.
But a super VDP with form like today or glasgow sorry no, not even in Roubaix. However, take the VDP we had in flanders, who in my opinion was not super but just "very good", WVA would have a good chance with that form vdp in roubaix.

As for overall, Wout is more versatile and cerainly better suited to stages in GT's, TT's, mass sprints even... it's just that he wants to win the classics so bad where VDP just has the edge on him...you can't say they are on equal footing in those, you simply can't. VDP has now 6 monuments and a world championship... Van Aert 1. That difference is clear.

Do we know Wout couldn't beat him this year? No we don't. Mathieu was really, really good last year, and Wout was easily as good and it looked for a moment like he had Mathieu in trouble on Carrefour right as he punctured.

I can't see Mathieu straight up dropping Wout in this year. Flanders, yeah, Roubaix no. But its all to depressing to think about so I'll stop posting in this thread, I'll just get angry and feel bad.

Recover well, Wout!! Still two big one day races left.

 

[jaylew]

Don't know if this has been previously discussed but I think a frustrating thing about Wout's injury is that they didn't get to find out if this new preparation strategy was the right move. Do they try it again, banking everything on the two cobbled monuments? Or do they decide that skipping big races he has won before like MSR or SB is not worth it when there's always a chance a crash can derail your plans? For example, a MSR win in the pocket would have taken some of the sting out of what happened to him at Dwars.

 

[Spine Concept]

Do we know Wout couldn't beat him this year? No we don't. Mathieu was really, really good last year, and Wout was easily as good and it looked for a moment like he had Mathieu in trouble on Carrefour right as he punctured.

I can't see Mathieu straight up dropping Wout in this year. Flanders, yeah, Roubaix no. But its all to depressing to think about so I'll stop posting in this thread, I'll just get angry and feel bad.

Recover well, Wout!! Still two big one day races left.

Wout had Mathieu in trouble at last year’s PR? Quite a reach. Wout attacked right when Mathieu and Degenkolb bumped into each other and he was off balance. Watch the race again.

These what if games are just a waste of time. I like Wout, and I’ve enjoyed their rivalry from day one in CX, but Mathieu always had that edge over him, call it “killer’s instinct” or whatever you like. Point is, Mathieu has 6 monuments and Wout only has excuses, should of’s and could of’s.

I do agree that it’s a shame he wasn’t there this year. It’s always better to beat the best, not that Mathieu hasn’t, on multiple occasions. Let’s hope we can see them battle again next year.

 

[saunaking]

I didn't start this 'what if' game. Others started it by saying he wouldn't have followed MvdP in PR.
That's a very unsubstantiated 'what if' in Roubaix, much more than the other way around.

We have been robbed off a great race / duel, and it's easy to see how the race would have evolved with Wva in it. The first MvdP attack in Arenberg would haven been covered by WvA, but with Van Dijcke also there and Philipsen / Pedersen flatting, WvA would have riding hard with MvdP to keep the gap, and there is a big chance they would already have been away with a group no more than 5.

Even if it came together, WvA would have covered MvdP's attack in Orchies, and either WvA would commit and it would been a duel, or WvA would ride defensively like last year, riders would be able to come back /bridge across and we would still have had a race. How far that race would have gone before e.g. MvdP breaking free (or not), we don't know.

But those that say WvA wouldn't have been able to follow just becasue the meagre competition yesterday didn't even try, have not watched previous Roubaix editions.

You are stating this like it would be some certainty...
Its just as (or more) likely that Wout would have been caught napping and caught up with Mads, they would work together for a while as the gap extended.

Someone said it before, we have to stop comparing Wout with MVDP or speaking like they are of the same level.

 

[Hugh Januss]

You are stating this like it would be some certainty...
Its just as (or more) likely that Wout would have been caught napping and caught up with Mads, they would work together for a while as the gap extended.

Someone said it before, we have to stop comparing Wout with MVDP or speaking like they are of the same level.

Nope.

 

[Spine Concept]

Nope.

Yep.

 

[Volderke]

You are stating this like it would be some certainty...
Its just as (or more) likely that Wout would have been caught napping and caught up with Mads, they would work together for a while as the gap extended.

Someone said it before, we have to stop comparing Wout with MVDP or speaking like they are of the same level.

Watch 2023 PR again, maybe.
A rider doesn’t have to be on exactly the same level to follow / compete. Stop the straw man’s argument. I’m not comparing the riders as in saying Wva is on the same level m, I’m only assessing if they would be together / be able to follow-respond to attacks, and it’s clear from editions until now that Wva is the only one who can remotely do that.

Without Wva, the race was over before the start. Mvdp didn’t suddenly improve another level: his only possible competition was simply absent.

 

[Barkintheeye]

At this point it's a disservice to Wout to constantly compare him to MVDP. The whole thing started in CX, but the reality is Wout has never been MVDP's equal in CX - the 3 straight WC's kind've masked the real story, which is MVDP beats him better than 2 out of 3 and is the greatest CX'er of all-time. He's not his equal as a 1-day classics rider either. Never has been, never will be. Wout is a better all-around road racer than MVDP. I doubt MVDP will ever win a TT, Champs-Elysees, or a mountain stage at the TDF - let alone all in the same one. Why isn't that enough?

In principle I agree with you but specifically on the point of WC CX then Wout’s win in Valkenburg 2018 was fair and square. MVDP had an excellent season and was the clear favorite going into the WC but Wout had kept his focus and in the harsh muddy conditions could grind Van der Poel into submission. I think that loss changed something for Van der Poel because the next year in Bogense his focus on the WC was immense - you could feel it from the start - and there he beat Van Aert with supreme skill (the off camber section). Since then the story has been the same. MVDP is winning every WC when they meet. Not every race but every WC.

 

[Volderke]

But let's not compare them, even though they were evenly matched in the WC 2023, that's only a year ago.

 

[Blanco]

But let's not compare them, even though they were evenly matched in the WC 2023, that's only a year ago.

And that was probably the last time they were more or less even.
From that sprint it was Van Der Poel all the way.
He was probably closest in that Roubaix last year, but his level is higher now, Mathieu said that himself.
I do think that the difference between the two is certainly not so big as the results in the biggest classics says, but I also think that there is a difference.

 

[velaso montador]

With how much of a gap Van der Poel generated, he would have had lots of room for more attacks of Wout had stayed with him. I’d like to believe Wout could have went to the line with him but it’s really hard to imagine that.

Yeah I cant remember a race of importance this wasnt the case that Mvdp drops Wva whenever he wants and it goes so far back its always the imagine im left with. And nvm with this Mvdp which now clearly is even better than previous years, like Glasgow Mvdp and we saw how much stronger he is than anyone there too. He wouldnt have had a chance indeed.

I suspect like others said he would be closer to Pedersen and co just like weve seen before its a far more likely outcome for me.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

And that was probably the last time they were more or less even.
From that sprint it was Van Der Poel all the way.
He was probably closest in that Roubaix last year, but his level is higher now, Mathieu said that himself.
I do think that the difference between the two is certainly not so big as the results in the biggest classics says, but I also think that there is a difference.

Mathieu made one, maybe two, huge jumps since the back issues plagued winter of cx 22/23. While Van Aert has had his first "lesser" season in 2023. Their trajectory also seems different now.

Come GTs Im sure Wout will be on top though. As I said, Wout is a far more complete rider who can excel at much more terrains. But in the classics, meh.. I can follow Volderke that in Roubaix Van Aert is most likely to follow or beat him though. That sort of effort is just more Van Aert's cup of tea. This Roubaix VDP was insanely good tho... so he'd need an super day as well imo

 

[Divergence]

Mathieu made one, maybe two, huge jumps since the back issues plagued winter of cx 22/23. While Van Aert has had his first "lesser" season in 2023. Their trajectory also seems different now.

Come GTs Im sure Wout will be on top though. As I said, Wout is a far more complete rider who can excel at much more terrains. But in the classics, meh.. I can follow Volderke that in Roubaix Van Aert is most likely to follow or beat him though. That sort of effort is just more Van Aert's cup of tea. This Roubaix VDP was insanely good tho... so he'd need an super day as well imo

There is no evidence that Wout is a far more complete rider than MVDP. Sure Wout had a nice TdF in 22 but I believe MVDP can do just as well if he really wants to do it. At the TdF 21 he was pretty extraordinary the first few days with the yellow jersey and all. Regarding big climbs, there is no reason why MVDP should not be able what Wout did on (say Ventoux). He is a bit lighter with probably close to same absolute power.

 

[Red Rick]

There is no evidence that Wout is a far more complete rider than MVDP. Sure Wout had a nice TdF in 22 but I believe MVDP can do just as well if he really wants to do it. At the TdF 21 he was pretty extraordinary the first few days with the yellow jersey and all. Regarding big climbs, there is no reason why MVDP should not be able what Wout did on (say Ventoux). He is a bit lighter with probably close to same absolute power.

Did you just use an absence MvdP can do the same to argue there is no evidence Van Aert is more versatile?

dafaq?

 

[topcat]

Did you just use an absence MvdP can do the same to argue there is no evidence Van Aert is more versatile?

dafaq?

This is getting good. How far can we take it? Nibali retires because of the permanent tailwind. RR retires because the forum has descended into an abyss.
MvdP can do anything he wants. He'd rather win AGR by an hour than rip the SHlT out of the tour.

 

[Divergence]

Did you just use an absence MvdP can do the same to argue there is no evidence Van Aert is more versatile?

dafaq?

Up to now (in road racing) Wout has had wins on more versatile parcours which makes him a more versatile rider (but I do indeed think that MvdP can do the same if he puts his mind to it). However, the post was claiming that Wout is a far more complete bicycle rider which is absolutely not true. They both ride CX and on the road but MvdP rides MTB as well which makes him a more complete rider. On top of that, it seems to me, that if you organize a folding bike race MvdP will be tha absolute favourite and he will smash everybody.

 

[Volderke]

Yeah I cant remember a race of importance this wasnt the case that Mvdp drops Wva whenever he wants and it goes so far back its always the imagine im left with.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cq7VISmUCM


check 1:51:51 up until 2:02:26

I suspect like others said he would be closer to Pedersen and co just like weve seen before its a far more likely outcome for me.

View: https://youtu.be/5Cq7VISmUCM?t=10540

Wout van Aert versus Mads Pedersen | Same race results

Comparison of results between Wout van Aert and Mads Pedersen in races where they both started.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[DutchDynamite]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cq7VISmUCM


check 1:51:51 up until 2:02:26

I dont think MvdP can drop WvA at will, but i think he knows how to beat him. He just attacks and attacks and attacks and sooner or later WvA cant follow any more.
MvdP never drops WvA when he first tries.

I think MvdP recharge faster and better than WvA and has simply more bullets to shoot.

 

[Volderke]

I dont think MvdP can drop WvA at will,

I don't agree 100%: I think MvdP can drop WvA at will as he did in some races, while he can't drop him at will as we saw in last year's Roubaix.

And that's the only point I am making, contrary to those, who in the absence of WvA, claim that WvA would have been dropped anyway and Pedersen is on the same level.

 

[sam6]

Kelderman is out of the Giro having fractured is collarbone in Paris-Nice, so Wout has no chance

 

[Red Rick]

Kelderman is out of the Giro having fractured is collarbone in Paris-Nice, so Wout has no chance

Kelderman is the last rider you should compare any other rider to. The guy breaks something and needs 3 months out any time he goes down it's unreal

 

[senna6541]

MVDP and Wout have their unique strengths (relative to each other), but they meet in the middle in CX and in 1 day classics. And to this point, MVDP has proven to be superior in those arenas. I'm an MVDP fan, but at this point I think it is fair to say he just has more of champion's mentality (killer instinct and willingness to risk losing to win) mentality than Wout. And as strong as Wout is, he just doesn't have MVDP's freakish explosiveness that allows him to get separation and win bike races against the very best in the world when they are all in for the win. He also doesn't have MVDP's handle which buys him seconds that add up. All that said, Wout is has proven to be the more versatile road racer which counts for a lot. Doesn't get much more freakish than winning a TT, Ventoux, Champs Elysees in one TDF.