Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

[DNP-Old]

Seconded.

That said, WvA has an unrealistic amount of catching up to do with MvP. I know I'm beating a dead horse with an obvious statement, but Wout (once healed) really better start bagging the big wins and soon. His palmares, as they stand, aren't even close to being reflective of his talent.

Literally translated we have the following saying in Dutch: too big for the napkin, too small for the tablecloth. That is Wout to me, a riding paradox. He is too good to race for crumbs, yet not good enough to grab the holy grail.

 

[Volderke]

Seconded.

That said, WvA has an unrealistic amount of catching up to do with MvP. I know I'm beating a dead horse with an obvious statement, but Wout (once healed) really better start bagging the big wins and soon. His palmares, as they stand, aren't even close to being reflective of his talent.

Wva won’t catch up; he should have won Roubaix / Flanders already when he could, like Roubaix 2019, Flanders 2020, Roubaix 2022. Those were the years he was equal or better than mvdp (in Roubaix 2022 still plagued by non optimal preparation because of his back issues).
He will only have a good chance to win when mvdp doesn’t show up. If mvdp crashed last week and Wva didn’t crash, he would have had a very good chance winning today, given the level of competition.
It reminds me about Boonen and Cancellara: Cancellara was the better rider in almost everything but sprinting, and once Cancellara found the key to unlock Roubaix and Flanders, Boonen could only win when Cancellara wasn’t there, like Roubaix 2012 which felt very similar to today (only one big favorite, long solo). But contrary to Wva, Boonen handily won his RVV and Roubaix mostly before Cancellara was the man to beat and Wva didn’t grab those chances.

 

[stonerider]

Best advantage MvP has got is luck. He even doesn't get punctures and i forgot the last time he crashed (Ronde 2019?). He's riding in great position, but so does WvA, so that doesn't explain that.

Is that luck or bike driving skill? Wout flats all the time...either his team needs a new tire sponsor or he is not lifting his bike tires over the big cobbles. Maybe Wout should spend some time riding a rigid MTB on a course with lots of tree roots and rocks in training.

 

[Nick2413]

With how much of a gap Van der Poel generated, he would have had lots of room for more attacks of Wout had stayed with him. I’d like to believe Wout could have went to the line with him but it’s really hard to imagine that.

 

[Didinho]

Wva won’t catch up; he should have won Roubaix / Flanders already when he could, like Roubaix 2019, Flanders 2020, Roubaix 2022. Those were the years he was equal or better than mvdp (in Roubaix 2022 still plagued by non optimal preparation because of his back issues).
He will only have a good chance to win when mvdp doesn’t show up. If mvdp crashed last week and Wva didn’t crash, he would have had a very good chance winning today, given the level of competition.
It reminds me about Boonen and Cancellara: Cancellara was the better rider in almost everything but sprinting, and once Cancellara found the key to unlock Roubaix and Flanders, Boonen could only win when Cancellara wasn’t there, like Roubaix 2012 which felt very similar to today (only one big favorite, long solo). But contrary to Wva, Boonen handily won his RVV and Roubaix mostly before Cancellara was the man to beat and Wva didn’t grab those chances.

That’s how fans see the race for their rider. I’m also thinking what if Mathieu didn’t fall on his Ronde debut (strongest in race), what if he didn’t push to keep Wout behind and couldn’t follow Pogi after. What if he didn’t bonked in Harrogate. What if he didn’t fall on the MTB and the back issues. His 3th place in Roubaix without preparation. His first 2 best years couldn’t even ride Roubaix. What if he went to live in Spain earlier. What if he started 5 years earlier on the road. Could’ve even won so much more WC and monuments.
But now everything goes right for him. You can only beat who’s there. You can’t know if someone could follow or not if they’re not in the race.

Will be hard to catch up indeed. But he will get another monument, I’m sure.

 

[repre]

Is that luck or bike driving skill? Wout flats all the time...either his team needs a new tire sponsor or he is not lifting his bike tires over the big cobbles. Maybe Wout should spend some time riding a rigid MTB on a course with lots of tree roots and rocks in training.

Punctures is driving skills? We are talking about the rider who is one of the best CX riders in history, WvA is not Remco...

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I do believe VDP is in the end more talented, but for the classics.
However, Van Aert can run him closest in Roubaix, all it takes is a not super VDP and a Super Van Aert and Van Aert will beat him in Roubaix.
But a super VDP with form like today or glasgow sorry no, not even in Roubaix. However, take the VDP we had in flanders, who in my opinion was not super but just "very good", WVA would have a good chance with that form vdp in roubaix.

As for overall, Wout is more versatile and cerainly better suited to stages in GT's, TT's, mass sprints even... it's just that he wants to win the classics so bad where VDP just has the edge on him...you can't say they are on equal footing in those, you simply can't. VDP has now 6 monuments and a world championship... Van Aert 1. That difference is clear.

 

[vwpe]

I do believe VDP is in the end more talented, but for the classics.
However, Van Aert can run him closest in Roubaix, all it takes is a not super VDP and a Super Van Aert and Van Aert will beat him in Roubaix.
But a super VDP with form like today or glasgow sorry no, not even in Roubaix. However, take the VDP we had in flanders, who in my opinion was not super but just "very good", WVA would have a good chance with that form vdp in roubaix.

As for overall, Wout is more versatile and cerainly better suited to stages in GT's, TT's, mass sprints even... it's just that he wants to win the classics so bad where VDP just has the edge on him...you can't say they are on equal footing in those, you simply can't. VDP has now 6 monuments and a world championship... Van Aert 1. That difference is clear.

Mvdp doesnt care much for either of those things so naturally...Monuments are for the best, whats define these guys, what each and one of em target their season around, i would know. Look Boonen eventually didnt even show up at Gts, Gt, Mvdp ride them as prep, TT is simply not something mvdp care for at all imagine if he did... Even Cancellara which started out as a Tt specialist didnt care much for it deeper into his career its just a niche thing and not worth it.

 

[vwpe]

If you wanne see power for power you saw that in E3 this year, all flat(not even on the hills) - one seemingly toying with the other. Just like weve getting used to see the last years. Like the other guy typed its all we've seen over the years so at one point its just kinda wild to say he has the same power when hes never matched it.

If you dont wanne go there take last WC, last flandern - the power is not really close, like at all and its at no point even a stretch to say by now Pog is the only one doing anything to this Mvdp..

Wva still a generational talent and a fabelous cyclist, I like everyone else in cycling love him, hes beyond a class act of a guy too.

I just dont think you do him any favours by comparing him to Mvdp anymore, hes closer to Pedersen than he is to Mvdp, thats just my belief tho, not facts like the rest which weve seen. Anyway get well champion, heal up and get back to the beast you are, we all miss you.

 

[proffate]

Is that luck or bike driving skill? Wout flats all the time...either his team needs a new tire sponsor or he is not lifting his bike tires over the big cobbles. Maybe Wout should spend some time riding a rigid MTB on a course with lots of tree roots and rocks in training.

I mean the e3 crash was Wout shitting himself trying to cover mvdps attack, while ddv was wheel overlap with his own teammate. Can't see how either of these events is related to luck.

 

[Spine Concept]

That’s how fans see the race for their rider. I’m also thinking what if Mathieu didn’t fall on his Ronde debut (strongest in race), what if he didn’t push to keep Wout behind and couldn’t follow Pogi after. What if he didn’t bonked in Harrogate. What if he didn’t fall on the MTB and the back issues. His 3th place in Roubaix without preparation. His first 2 best years couldn’t even ride Roubaix. What if he went to live in Spain earlier. What if he started 5 years earlier on the road. Could’ve even won so much more WC and monuments.
But now everything goes right for him. You can only beat who’s there. You can’t know if someone could follow or not if they’re not in the race.

Will be hard to catch up indeed. But he will get another monument, I’m sure.

Indeed. If there's one tired argument out of all it's the "what if" one. The same game could be played for Mathieu on several occasions and in different cycling disciplines as stated above. He "could" have also won more CX WC titles by now IF ....... He could be on two RR WC titles by now if not for THAT incident. If, if, if.

 

[acf69]

Best advantage MvP has got is luck. He even doesn't get punctures and i forgot the last time he crashed (Ronde 2019?). He's riding in great position, but so does WvA, so that doesn't explain that.

I disagree. Wout has had bad luck lately but MvdP has had bad luck in the past. Even if we take out the luck element, in big races where they both had the same luck, I can immediately think of RVV 2020, Strade 2021, MSR 2023, Worlds 2023, E3 2024 that MvdP won vs WvA without the latter having bad luck. The other way around, I can only come up with MSR 2020 and E3 2023.

 

[jono]

I disagree. Wout has had bad luck lately but MvdP has had bad luck in the past. Even if we take out the luck element, in big races where they both had the same luck, I can immediately think of RVV 2020, Strade 2021, MSR 2023, Worlds 2023, E3 2024 that MvdP won vs WvA without the latter having bad luck. The other way around, I can only come up with MSR 2020 and E3 2023.

Even at E3 2023 you could argue Wout was getting dropped when the race motorbike crashed in front of Mathieu and Pog.

 

[Spine Concept]

Even at E3 2023 you could argue Wout was getting dropped when the race motorbike crashed in front of Mathieu and Pog.

Sure. But IF he hadn't been dropped though... Watch out.

 

[senna6541]

At this point it's a disservice to Wout to constantly compare him to MVDP. The whole thing started in CX, but the reality is Wout has never been MVDP's equal in CX - the 3 straight WC's kind've masked the real story, which is MVDP beats him better than 2 out of 3 and is the greatest CX'er of all-time. He's not his equal as a 1-day classics rider either. Never has been, never will be. Wout is a better all-around road racer than MVDP. I doubt MVDP will ever win a TT, Champs-Elysees, or a mountain stage at the TDF - let alone all in the same one. Why isn't that enough?

 

[Sciatic]

imo they are both great riders, and I always felt MvdP had more talent and upside and higher peaks, but lacked consistency and was mentally not as strong with WvA who was more consistent and therefore able to match him often. Now that MvdP has become equally consistent the biggest advantage WvA had is gone and all things being equal MvdP will come out on top more often.

Over the last few years the results speak for themselves. I have so many visuals of WvA just trying to follow MvdP, but very little the other way around.

Overall It agree with your assessment. But let’s not forget it was MVDP chasing/following Wout when the latter flatted at P-R last year.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Overall It agree with your assessment. But let’s not forget it was MVDP chasing/following Wout when the latter flatted at P-R last year.

he was only chasing Wout because when he initiated his attacked the Philipsen/Degenkolb incident happened. That was the moment MVDP went and it would be ahead of Wout. Only because Mathieu was caught in that incident Wout went... Wout already started his "ride defensively" vs VDP arc

 

[Volderke]

Punctures is driving skills? We are talking about the rider who is one of the best CX riders in history, WvA is not Remco...

I think MvdP not flatting as much (as Boonen did in his days) is partly because of riding style. More weight on the front wheel by both Boonen / MvdP while e.g. WvA is very firmly sitting in the saddle and thus more heavy beating on that back wheel.

 

[Volderke]

That’s how fans see the race for their rider. I’m also thinking what if Mathieu didn’t fall on his Ronde debut (strongest in race), what if he didn’t push to keep Wout behind and couldn’t follow Pogi after. What if he didn’t bonked in Harrogate. What if he didn’t fall on the MTB and the back issues. His 3th place in Roubaix without preparation. His first 2 best years couldn’t even ride Roubaix. What if he went to live in Spain earlier. What if he started 5 years earlier on the road. Could’ve even won so much more WC and monuments.
But now everything goes right for him. You can only beat who’s there. You can’t know if someone could follow or not if they’re not in the race.

Will be hard to catch up indeed. But he will get another monument, I’m sure.

I didn't start this 'what if' game. Others started it by saying he wouldn't have followed MvdP in PR.
That's a very unsubstantiated 'what if' in Roubaix, much more than the other way around.

We have been robbed off a great race / duel, and it's easy to see how the race would have evolved with Wva in it. The first MvdP attack in Arenberg would haven been covered by WvA, but with Van Dijcke also there and Philipsen / Pedersen flatting, WvA would have riding hard with MvdP to keep the gap, and there is a big chance they would already have been away with a group no more than 5.

Even if it came together, WvA would have covered MvdP's attack in Orchies, and either WvA would commit and it would been a duel, or WvA would ride defensively like last year, riders would be able to come back /bridge across and we would still have had a race. How far that race would have gone before e.g. MvdP breaking free (or not), we don't know.

But those that say WvA wouldn't have been able to follow just becasue the meagre competition yesterday didn't even try, have not watched previous Roubaix editions.

 

[bNator]

At this point it's a disservice to Wout to constantly compare him to MVDP. The whole thing started in CX, but the reality is Wout has never been MVDP's equal in CX - the 3 straight WC's kind've masked the real story, which is MVDP beats him better than 2 out of 3 and is the greatest CX'er of all-time. He's not his equal as a 1-day classics rider either. Never has been, never will be. Wout is a better all-around road racer than MVDP. I doubt MVDP will ever win a TT, Champs-Elysees, or a mountain stage at the TDF - let alone all in the same one. Why isn't that enough?

Partly, that's also due to Wout's ambitions as a one day racer and I don't he himslef values his unique abilities as a stage racer either. That's where most of his success/reputation in road cycling comes from. Not classics or monuments but from Tour de France. And what does he do: trade TdF for a one day race

I think he should embrace the fact he is a beast in grand tours and prioritise that from now on - using one day races as training instead of putting them as the main goal for the season. But it doesn't matter what we think, it's what he wants...

 

[Volderke]

If you wanne see power for power you saw that in E3 this year, all flat(not even on the hills) - one seemingly toying with the other.

That was a 12K /19 minute stretch with 250 climbing meters and 3 hills: Paterberg, Oude Kwaremont and Karnemelkbeekstraat. So the equivalent to 4200 altitudinal meters if the whole race was like this.

It's clear MvdP was the better rider of both, but the intellectual dishonesty is staggering.

Try riding your very best on that stretch, i.e. Paterberg until the top of Karnemelkbeekstraat.
Next, give yourself a 30 second penalty, and try to beat your intermediate time on top of Kwaremont with 20 seconds (that's 3% faster), and see how fresh you are on top of Karnemelkbeekstraat.

It's only logics to see how WvA cracked (coming from altitude, no race rythm, on the back foot and against a better opponent), but to use this to extrapolate into Roubaix and say he is the level of Pedersen... is just garbage talk.

 

[Volderke]

Forget E3 if you want(not sure why you should do cause Mvdp had to do the exact same with less race days etc.. and that 30sec turned to 2min on pure numbers its not science...again not thowing dirt but at some point its just not even a stretch anymore to force something which is is not there) but look at WC, Flander last year if you want its not much that tell you he has the power Mvdp has? in fact its really far from it. Thats not dishonest to say Wva is not close to have the power Mvdp has its really not whe in fact hes never matched it.

I dont think you do Wva any favours by comparing him to Mvdp anymore, clearly its only Pog who has showed he can do anything to him. I said he was closer to Pedersen than he is to Mvdp im not throwing dirt I do think the results over the last years reflects that very well aswell.

Anyway im out of the Wva/Mvdp game wasnt my intention since its not really a debat but by saying he would easily follow I do wonder what youve seen over the last years ..its a disservice to Wva if anything at this point is my poinion and that guy is a beast and pure class act so by talking about him next to Mvdp he will always be talked down to instead of the praise he actually deserve.

And ive ridden those Paterberg, Karnemelkbeekstraat etc many times even with the said Wva.

Again, this shouldn't be too complicated:
we're talking about Roubaix. Not about RVV, not about E3, not about Glasgow.
It's about:
Would WvA have been able to follow MvdP's attack in Roubaix?
There are people who say he wouldn't, based on apples / oranges comparisons.
I'm refuting that.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I do believe VDP is in the end more talented, but for the classics.
However, Van Aert can run him closest in Roubaix, all it takes is a not super VDP and a Super Van Aert and Van Aert will beat him in Roubaix.
But a super VDP with form like today or glasgow sorry no, not even in Roubaix. However, take the VDP we had in flanders, who in my opinion was not super but just "very good", WVA would have a good chance with that form vdp in roubaix.

As for overall, Wout is more versatile and cerainly better suited to stages in GT's, TT's, mass sprints even... it's just that he wants to win the classics so bad where VDP just has the edge on him...you can't say they are on equal footing in those, you simply can't. VDP has now 6 monuments and a world championship... Van Aert 1. That difference is clear.

Do we know Wout couldn't beat him this year? No we don't. Mathieu was really, really good last year, and Wout was easily as good and it looked for a moment like he had Mathieu in trouble on Carrefour right as he punctured.

I can't see Mathieu straight up dropping Wout in this year. Flanders, yeah, Roubaix no. But its all to depressing to think about so I'll stop posting in this thread, I'll just get angry and feel bad.

Recover well, Wout!! Still two big one day races left.

 

[jaylew]

Don't know if this has been previously discussed but I think a frustrating thing about Wout's injury is that they didn't get to find out if this new preparation strategy was the right move. Do they try it again, banking everything on the two cobbled monuments? Or do they decide that skipping big races he has won before like MSR or SB is not worth it when there's always a chance a crash can derail your plans? For example, a MSR win in the pocket would have taken some of the sting out of what happened to him at Dwars.

 

[Spine Concept]

Do we know Wout couldn't beat him this year? No we don't. Mathieu was really, really good last year, and Wout was easily as good and it looked for a moment like he had Mathieu in trouble on Carrefour right as he punctured.

I can't see Mathieu straight up dropping Wout in this year. Flanders, yeah, Roubaix no. But its all to depressing to think about so I'll stop posting in this thread, I'll just get angry and feel bad.

Recover well, Wout!! Still two big one day races left.

Wout had Mathieu in trouble at last year’s PR? Quite a reach. Wout attacked right when Mathieu and Degenkolb bumped into each other and he was off balance. Watch the race again.

These what if games are just a waste of time. I like Wout, and I’ve enjoyed their rivalry from day one in CX, but Mathieu always had that edge over him, call it “killer’s instinct” or whatever you like. Point is, Mathieu has 6 monuments and Wout only has excuses, should of’s and could of’s.

I do agree that it’s a shame he wasn’t there this year. It’s always better to beat the best, not that Mathieu hasn’t, on multiple occasions. Let’s hope we can see them battle again next year.