Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

[houtdffan]

They did not stick it to Pogacar, but Wout to Vingegaard and Roglic in the final analyis.

yep. They had a chance to take real time on Pogacar, but for the second year in a row, SVA shows he is not a teammate

It's why he should have been left at home

 

[Red Rick]

Van aert is what cycling should be.

Like what does that even mean?

 

[Rackham]

This assumes the team goals don't include Wout's goals. I think an assumption worth questioning based on what we've seen about how they talk about team goals.

I find the craziest assumption would be the one which suggests WvA wasn't going to boss the final sprint anyway, at least once Groenewegen was dropped & Jakobsen was a no show at the top of the climb. I mean what exactly was the plan? Why did Jonas hang on like crazy if the "plan" was just for WvA to go solo? There was literally no need for Vinge to do anything on that climb considering what happened. He played no role in the attack, neither did Roglic. They just got dropped by WvA.

Other than Ineos who tried to go along themselves, everyone else was sitting there with a finger in their nose whilst WvA dropped JV's GC leaders & went solo to a stage win he probably would have had from a bunch sprint anyway.

If Jonas & Rog had been the ones doing the actual pulling for WvA, I might have believed it was deliberate. But that's not what happened. They were passengers in the Jumbo train & then got dropped.

As he should, especially wearing yellow! Yeah he won't carry the jersey to paris and that's the big prize all teams covet, yadda yadda. But he's not some middle of the pack donkey, there's maybe 5 guys in the last decade who could have pulled off a win like that.

What he did today imo more deeply respects the race than giving the jersey to some decoy, riding tempo as a team for 2 weeks with zero interest in stages except 1km sprints on the mtf and taking yellow at the last moment.

Van aert is what cycling should be.

This is the TdF.

By the weekend once the GC fight starts, no one (other than his fans) will care how WvA won stage 4. Jumbo had no impact on the overall GC today, nothing.

 

[Extinction]

yep. They had a chance to take real time on Pogacar, but for the second year in a row, SVA shows he is not a teammate

It's why he should have been left at home

Left at home, I don't know, however, given Pogacar was on the back foot (and has now admitted to making a rooky positioning mistake), it was absolutely absurd that Wout did not wait for Vingegaard and Yates to gain Jumbo GC leader time on Tadej. It simply makes no tactical sense, as Wout would have won the stage in any case. Either he is an ego maniac or his team is beyond stupid.

 

[spalco]

By the weekend once the GC fight starts, no one (other than his fans) will care how WvA won stage 4. Jumbo had no impact on the overall GC today, nothing.

Why turn on the TV before that at all then?

 

[Rackham]

Why turn on the TV before that at all then?

Everyday is GC day.

Potential splits, crashes, drama. You know this. Today should have been a GC day as well but Jumbo missed an opportunity.

 

[kingjr]

I find the craziest assumption would be the one which suggests WvA wasn't going to boss the final sprint anyway, at least once Groenewegen was dropped & Jakobsen was a no show at the top of the climb. I mean what exactly was the plan? Why did Jonas hang on like crazy if the "plan" was just for WvA to go solo? There was literally no need for Vinge to do anything on that climb considering what happened. He played no role in the attack, neither did Roglic. They just got dropped by WvA.

Other than Ineos who tried to go along themselves, everyone else was sitting there with a finger in their nose whilst WvA dropped JV's GC leaders & went solo to a stage win he probably would have had from a bunch sprint anyway.

If Jonas & Rog had been the ones doing the actual pulling for WvA, I might have believed it was deliberate. But that's not what happened. They were passengers in the Jumbo train & then got dropped.



This is the TdF.

By the weekend once the GC fight starts, no one (other than his fans) will care how WvA won stage 4. Jumbo had no impact on the overall GC today, nothing.

I'm not a fan, I'm usually rooting for someone else. But I could care less about Jumbo's impact on the GC if I get to something like today's performance instead.

 

[Rackham]

I'm not a fan, I'm usually rooting for someone else. But I could care less about Jumbo's impact on the GC if I get to something like today's performance instead.

It's not even about the fans.

You just need to look at this from Vingegaard's perspective: he went from having a gap versus his rivals (including his co-captain at Jumbo) to getting dropped by his own teammate.

If this stunt was carried out by Tiesj Benoot, people would be laughing their asses off at the tactical fail.

 

[kingjr]

It's not even about the fans.

You just need to look at this from Vingegaard's perspective: he went from having a gap versus his rivals (including his co-captain at Jumbo) to getting dropped by his own teammate.

If this stunt was carried out by Tiesj Benoot, people would be laughing their asses off at the tactical fail.

I hear you, but I'm not watching this race from Vingegaard's perspective.

 

[red_flanders]

I believe they said they wanted to take time today, but now they're full PR mode.

The reaction of the team staff and teammates, as well as the overall tactical situation makes me seriously doubt they're in PR mode. I think it was pretty obvious they went on the attack to see what kind of difference they could make for GC as well as see if they could get Wout a stage win. And they took what was there for the taking. Would they have taken GC gaps if they could? Sure. But that was pretty unlikely given the 10k run in. And by "talk about the team goals" I mean this year and what we saw internally from last year. They consider Wout's goals as part of the team plan. As they should. Staying in yellow as long as possible, getting more points for Wout's eventual Green Jersey run, and winning stages are things they choose to factor into the team goals.

Yes, but should Wout's goals for stage wins be at the expense of the team goal of winning the Tour? I think not, but evidently Jumbo feels it has the power to achieve both (which I think is incredibly presumptious) or it has given too much leash to van Aert.

Yes, they clearly do. And since they were also seeing if they could get GC gaps, there is literally no "expense" to the GC goals, not that drilling a 1k climb on day 4 is going to cost them anything. They have to be on the attack WRT Pogi. They can walk and chew gum at the same time.

I think some are just way too quick to look for drama and criticism in this sport.

 

[Extinction]

The reaction of the team staff and teammates, as well as the overall tactical situation makes me seriously doubt they're in PR mode. I think it was pretty obvious they went on the attack to see what kind of difference they could make for GC as well as see if they could get Wout a stage win. And they took what was there for the taking. Would they have taken GC gaps if they could? Sure. But that was pretty unlikely given the 10k run in. And by "talk about the team goals" I mean this year and what we say internally from last year. They consider Wout's goals as part of the team plan. As they should.

Yes, they clearly do. And since they were also seeing if they could get GC gaps, there is literally no "expense" to the GC goals, not that drilling a 1k climb on day 4 is going to cost them anything. They have to be on the attack WRT Pogi. They can walk and chew gum at the same time.

I think some are just way too quick to look for drama and criticism in this sport.

They had Pogi though on the back foot, but did not take GC advantage from it. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Red Rick]

The reaction of the team staff and teammates, as well as the overall tactical situation makes me seriously doubt they're in PR mode. I think it was pretty obvious they went on the attack to see what kind of difference they could make for GC as well as see if they could get Wout a stage win. And they took what was there for the taking. Would they have taken GC gaps if they could? Sure. But that was pretty unlikely given the 10k run in. And by "talk about the team goals" I mean this year and what we say internally from last year. They consider Wout's goals as part of the team plan. As they should.

Yes, they clearly do. And since they were also seeing if they could get GC gaps, there is literally no "expense" to the GC goals, not that drilling a 1k climb on day 4 is going to cost them anything. They have to be on the attack WRT Pogi. They can walk and chew gum at the same time.

I think some are just way too quick to look for drama and criticism in this sport.

They can try to achieve both. Sure, that's fine. But today the sidequest took priority over even trying to achieve both.

Green jersey is already locked up. So what's the goal for Van Aert? Win as many stages as possible? How many is enough? He's got like 10 chances left.

 

[Panda Claws]

Suppose that Jumbo would have ridden to the finish together, Should WvA then have graciously finished 3rd so that Roglic and Vingegaard could get more bonis?

 

[Bonimenier]

Suppose that Jumbo would have ridden to the finish together, Should WvA then have graciously finished 3rd so that Roglic and Vingegaard could get more bonis?

The world would have been on fire if he didn't

 

[red_flanders]

They can try to achieve both. Sure, that's fine. But today the sidequest took priority over even trying to achieve both.

Green jersey is already locked up. So what's the goal for Van Aert? Win as many stages as possible? How many is enough? He's got like 10 chances left.

So they should wait to win stages they think they can win because there might be others they can win later? Nope. They should sit on their hands because they're ahead with the Green Jersey? Nope. Today did nothing to hurt their GC chances and gave them a chance to gap Pogi.

Great team win today IMO, and wonderful attacking, stylish, exciting racing. So much more enjoyable than the alternative we've seen for all too long.

 

[Rackham]

Suppose that Jumbo would have ridden to the finish together, Should WvA then have graciously finished 3rd so that Roglic and Vingegaard could get more bonis?

The obvious scenario was for WvA & Vingegaard to ride together to the line with Yates in tow. It was literally right there for the taking. Stage win guaranteed as well with WvA.

If the plan was just for Van Aert to go solo, there's no need for Jonas to do anything on that climb. He doesn't have to follow. I mean even Pog is saying funny stuff like "thanks for dropping your guys!".

All the usual pr fluff about "teamwork makes the dreamwork", sure if we're talking about Van Hooydonck & Benoot who drilled it but Vingegaard did absolutely nothing (neither did Roglic) to make that win happen. They just followed & got dropped by WvA.

It was a mess.

 

[noob]

Wout doesn't seem like a team player when he feels he has the right to win.

Do you mean that in the stages he feels he has the right to win he's not a team player? And in the others he might be?

 

[Extinction]

Do you mean that in the stages he feels he has the right to win he's not a team player? And in the others he might be?

No, if he can win he must have the opportunity to go for it, no matter the overall goals of the team at the Tour, even in spite of them, as with today,

 

[Ricco']

If Wout wanted a team built solely around him in the Tour he could choose from at least 9 or 10 teams who would be happy to do it and forget the GC. When he renewed his contract with Jumbo he know what the team wants to do for GC and what he would he could have to do in the Tour for that goal.

Having 2 or 3 guys in the team who can help him get a green jersey is already pretty generous for a team with 2 of the best GC riders in the field. But this is a missed opportunity and imo a bit selfish like some have been saying. If he waited for Vingo and worked together with him the chances of arriving solo would be pretty great (even more with an Ineos guy with them and a very disorganized Emirates - and it wouldn't be freaking Adam Yates who would drop WVA on the flat) and of winning a sprint. And if he waited for Vingo and a couple of k's later the bunch would catch them again, I think he should have more strength in a sprint than the pure sprinters who went deep to hang on and to come back (or have Laporte as a plan B).

This was the best outcome for WVA, not the best outcome for the team, as they could easily achieved a stage win plus gain of time for one of their team leaders over the biggest favourite (and even if it was only 15 or 20 seconds, no one can say those seconds won't be important from now one).

 

[Peyroteo94]

Of course they want to maximize WVA' chances of winning stages and maintain the yellow jersey. They know only a miracle can beat Pogacar. Let's not pretend it is a 50/50% race where there is a equal chance between Pogacar and Roglic/Jonas. It is Pogacar and the rest.

 

[Poursuivant]

All this talk will be redundant when Pogacar wins the TDF by about 4 minutes and Roglic doesn’t even make the podium.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Yes, lets tell the best rider in the world to wait for Roglic and deny him a stage win in the Maillot Jaune. Im sure that will pan out great for you when you want to renew with him.

I'd just ignore Roglic tomorrow at this point if I was Wout tbh. *** it, just go for it tomorrow again and let the other guys help, Hoydonck, Benoot and Laporte are some of the worlds best at this terrain anyways.

Just for the record. After today stage van Aert said he checked on the radio if Rogla is OK. If the answer would be no he said he would turn the bike around with no hesitations whatsoever.

 

[CyclistAbi]

That guy.

No that guy there.

This guy!

 

[houtdffan]

SVA is not even close to the best rider in the world. This is an asinine take

Best rider currently is Pogacar. SVA is the third best rider on his team

 

[Jumbot]

I'm curious, what does "SVA" stand for?