Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

[Valv.Piti]

i switched off the belgian because they were too chauvinistic. But I did wonder how great the panic would be when Poels was nearing a minute. Classic.

Wait what, are you just not watching the Dutch broadcast normally? I assume it would be the equivalent of me watching the Norwegians and god knows I don't wanna be doing that.

 

[DNP-Old]

Wait what, are you just not watching the Dutch broadcast normally? I assume it would be the equivalent of me watching the Norwegians and god knows I don't wanna be doing that.

Believe it or not, but both NOS and Dutch Eurosport are even worse.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Wait what, are you just not watching the Dutch broadcast normally? I assume it would be the equivalent of me watching the Norwegians and god knows I don't wanna be doing that.

never. I dislike listening to NOS with a passion. So usually watch Sporza or Eurosport. But this Tour for some reason sporza is unbearable. Idk why.. normally Renaat & Jose were my favorite commentators but I think all the success of Belgian riders has gone to their head. They are ultra nationalist now.

THey couldn't comprehend Wout Poels outclimbing Wout van Aert.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Interesting. I think we are quite lucky in Denmark not to have imbeciles commentating on the race on both Danish broadcasts, because from what Im hearing, the commentators are just not that good across the board in many other countries.

 

[Valanga]

Interesting. I think we are quite lucky in Denmark not to have imbeciles commentating on the race on both Danish broadcasts, because from what Im hearing, the commentators are just not that good across the board in many other countries.

Else you'd always have the option to listen to the Swedish commentators. They're actually quite good, and there's also no reason at all for them to let any nationalistic sentiments hinder their objectivity ;-)

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Interesting. I think we are quite lucky in Denmark not to have imbeciles commentating on the race on both Danish broadcasts, because from what Im hearing, the commentators are just not that good across the board in many other countries.

NOS (dutch comms) is trash. Eurosport it depends a lot on who's commentating because they switch around a lot.

Thats why usually Sporza because they are the most knowledgeable. But like I said recently Sporza has become unbearable to do mainly WVA and Evenepoel. They can never comprehend when they don't win either.

 

[Salvarani]

Else you'd always have the option to listen to the Swedish commentators. They're actually quite good, and there's also no reason at all for them to let any nationalistic sentiments hinder their objectivity ;-)

Yes, they are very good. Been commentating for many years. Very knowledgable and quite funny as well.

Some smaller races they have another guy commentating sometimes. He is not as good but he commentates a lot of other sports as well, I think.

The two main commentators does most of all the big races though.

 

[Aimar16]

The competition Sagan had in classics in his prime ((2015-2017) in Flanders was Kristoff, Terpstra and GvA. I forget the formidable Sepp Vanmarcke.

Wva only has mvdp and pogacar… easy to beat those!

Having two strong riders is rather helpful for WvA. Since both Pog and MvdP are willing to cooperate with him. Sagan didn't have that luxury, everyone was racing against him.

 

[Volderke]

Having two strong riders is rather helpful for WvA. Since both Pog and MvdP are willing to cooperate with him. Sagan didn't have that luxury, everyone was racing against him.

It's not very helpful as those 2 riders are beating him most of the time so WvA ends up 2nd or 3rd.
Sagan in his prime was the best and they raced against him because he was the best. WvA in his prime isn't always the best, but his formidable competition still treats him as the rider who has to take control. WvA would be better off faking a bit more (as in: pretending he is suffering) or simply ride a bit subdued, but he is always showing his brute force, and as a result his fellow riders look at him like he has to do the work.

 

[Peyroteo94]

It's not very helpful as those 2 riders are beating him most of the time so WvA ends up 2nd or 3rd.
Sagan in his prime was the best and they raced against him because he was the best. WvA in his prime isn't always the best, but his formidable competition still treats him as the rider who has to take control. WvA would be better off faking a bit more (as in: pretending he is suffering) or simply ride a bit subdued, but he is always showing his brute force, and as a result his fellow riders look at him like he has to do the work.

Couldn't disagree more with this. Of course they they treat him like a strong opponent but never saw MVP or Pogacar (more recently) waiting for WVA to work. 2023 RVV, WVA lost because he didn't have the legs, Pogacar took control of the race very early and WVA just had to take his wheel which he couldn't. In 2023 PR, he didn't do a thing until his attack where unfortunately he had a puncture. In other editions of Ronde, didn't see him doing more work at all than MVP and MVP is not the type of rider who waits for others to rip the race. WVA has suffered more in PR (not this year) when MVP isn't participating and then WVA is the huge favourite.
I have a hard time seeing him winning Ronde with Pogi and MVP there. He can do a perfect race there and still losing because I can't see him following the Pogacar I saw in 2023 and 2022.

 

[Volderke]

Couldn't disagree more with this. Of course they they treat him like a strong opponent but never saw MVP or Pogacar (more recently) waiting for WVA to work. 2023 RVV, WVA lost because he didn't have the legs, Pogacar took control of the race very early and WVA just had to take his wheel which he couldn't. In 2023 PR, he didn't do a thing until his attack where unfortunately he had a puncture. In other editions of Ronde, didn't see him doing more work at all than MVP and MVP is not the type of rider who waits for others to rip the race. WVA has suffered more in PR (not this year) when MVP isn't participating and then WVA is the huge favourite.
I have a hard time seeing him winning Ronde with Pogi and MVP there. He can do a perfect race there and still losing because I can't see him following the Pogacar I saw in 2023 and 2022.

Did I ever say that WvA lost against MvdP or Pogacar other than he didn't have the legs?

I have been saying over and over again that WvA is worse off because he is riding against 2 riders that are simply better. How hard is reading comprehension?
And I am saying this to compare with Sagan, who was marked as much (or more), but at least Sagan was head and shoulders above his competition. WvA isn't, but he is still marked as much.

If you can't disagree more with this, re-read what I've wrote.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Did I ever say that WvA lost against MvdP or Pogacar other than he didn't have the legs?

I have been saying over and over again that WvA is worse off because he is riding against 2 riders that are simply better. How hard is reading comprehension?
And I am saying this to compare with Sagan, who was marked as much (or more), but at least Sagan was head and shoulders above his competition. WvA isn't, but he is still marked as much.

If you can't disagree more with this, re-read what I've wrote.

I put in bold what I don't agree with you. MVP and Pogi don't wait for WVA to control the race.

 

[Aimar16]

It's not very helpful as those 2 riders are beating him most of the time so WvA ends up 2nd or 3rd.
Sagan in his prime was the best and they raced against him because he was the best. WvA in his prime isn't always the best, but his formidable competition still treats him as the rider who has to take control. WvA would be better off faking a bit more (as in: pretending he is suffering) or simply ride a bit subdued, but he is always showing his brute force, and as a result his fellow riders look at him like he has to do the work.

It's still a better scenario to be in the group of three riders who decide at X kilometres that they're going to drop the others, than to have 4-5 teams racing against you for the whole race. And Wout has the weapon against Pog and MvdP, he is a faster sprinter than them, especially after a hard race. So he's not a hopeless underdog...

 

[Volderke]

I put in bold what I don't agree with you. MVP and Pogi don't wait for WVA to control the race.

Do you have some imagination as in:
1. there are plenty of races where WvA is very much the marked man, in which Pogi and MvdP don't compete;
2. there are races in which WvA competes against Pogi and MvdP, and they try everything they can to drop him in order not to have to sprint against him (and because they are either better uphill / more explosive, they succeed in dropping him);
3. Comparing Sagan to WvA, both are very much marked men, but prime Sagan was dominant, while prime WvA is dominant except when Pog and MvdP are in the same race.

So conclusion:
1. WvA is a marked man, as much or maybe even more so than Sagan if you simply go by the number of wins and going by the fact that WvA is more beatable than Sagan, and thus shouldn't be marked as hard. This is because WvA is less of a finisher / explosive than Sagan, but still very much impressing his fellow riders during the race so they either try hard to drop him, or they look at him to close gaps / do the work. Part of WvA being marked is his own riding style (too much riding on the front / vulnerable for attacks from behind).
2. Prime WvA would win plenty of races if Pog / MvdP weren't there (those two are often simply better), while prime Sagan didn't have any rider simply better (except maybe Cancellara in Sagan's first years in the pro peloton). So WvA misses more wins as he has to face better competitors, and he also misses wins because he is as much marked as Sagan.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

but at least Sagan was head and shoulders above his competition

The only time sagan was head and shoulders above the competition was Flanders 2016, because GVA crashed out. And he took control of the race and won against a very strong Cancellara

In roubaix 2018 quickstep was stronger, particularly terpstra who was by far the strongest rider

In 3 worlds he was never head and shoulders above the competition.

Sagan had elements to his game that WVA never has. Guile, timing, intelligence. He was marked like the strongest rider in every race, even when he wasn't, but still found ways to won the biggest races repeatedly.

WVa is not on sagan level. This is simple.

 

[Volderke]

The only time sagan was head and shoulders above the competition was Flanders 2016, because GVA crashed out. And he took control of the race and won against a very strong Cancellara

In roubaix 2018 quickstep was stronger, particularly terpstra who was by far the strongest rider

In 3 worlds he was never head and shoulders above the competition.

Sagan had elements to his game that WVA never has. Guile, timing, intelligence. He was marked like the strongest rider in every race, even when he wasn't, but still found ways to won the biggest races repeatedly.

WVa is not on sagan level. This is simple.

Wva is way more dominant in the fight for green jersey than Sagan has ever been. So stating that Wva is not Sagan level… is simply ignoring wva’s tt, climbing and overal strength.

And just looking at PCS points, Sagan was everywhere in 2016. He was dominant in the worlds in Richmond in 2015, so saying he wasn’t head and shoulders above others in his world’s… not true either.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Else you'd always have the option to listen to the Swedish commentators. They're actually quite good, and there's also no reason at all for them to let any nationalistic sentiments hinder their objectivity ;-)

Roberto Vacchi? I remember listening to him quite a while back, but swedish is somewhat hard for me to understand, but I liked him.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Do you have some imagination as in:
1. there are plenty of races where WvA is very much the marked man, in which Pogi and MvdP don't compete;
2. there are races in which WvA competes against Pogi and MvdP, and they try everything they can to drop him in order not to have to sprint against him (and because they are either better uphill / more explosive, they succeed in dropping him);
3. Comparing Sagan to WvA, both are very much marked men, but prime Sagan was dominant, while prime WvA is dominant except when Pog and MvdP are in the same race.

So conclusion:
1. WvA is a marked man, as much or maybe even more so than Sagan if you simply go by the number of wins and going by the fact that WvA is more beatable than Sagan, and thus shouldn't be marked as hard. This is because WvA is less of a finisher / explosive than Sagan, but still very much impressing his fellow riders during the race so they either try hard to drop him, or they look at him to close gaps / do the work. Part of WvA being marked is his own riding style (too much riding on the front / vulnerable for attacks from behind).
2. Prime WvA would win plenty of races if Pog / MvdP weren't there (those two are often simply better), while prime Sagan didn't have any rider simply better (except maybe Cancellara in Sagan's first years in the pro peloton). So WvA misses more wins as he has to face better competitors, and he also misses wins because he is as much marked as Sagan.

With this, I agree. What I was saying is that Pog and MVP try to make the race, they don't wait to see what WVA will do.
Cheers.

 

[Ricco']

Wva is way more dominant in the fight for green jersey than Sagan has ever been.

Is it? Last year no one cared for the green jersey apart from WVA and there was no dominant sprinter that snatched a lot of wins. Even without no one fighting for the green jersey after the 1st couple of stages, WVA won last year with 67% more points than the 2nd. Sagan had years where he won with almost the double of the points of the 2nd (for example 2018 where one could say he was already not in his peak). And this without featuring in TTs and as extensively in mountain breaks.

Not to add that one won green jersey for 7 times, while the other only one.

 

[Volderke]

Is it? Last year no one cared for the green jersey apart from WVA and there was no dominant sprinter that snatched a lot of wins. Even without no one fighting for the green jersey after the 1st couple of stages, WVA won last year with 67% more points than the 2nd. Sagan had years where he won with almost the double of the points of the 2nd (for example 2018 where one could say he was already not in his peak). And this without featuring in TTs and as extensively in mountain breaks.

Not to add that one won green jersey for 7 times, while the other only one.

WvA was superdominant for green. Nobody stood a chance. If he would have gone for green this year, he would have got it as easily as last year.
I have never seen Sagan win a mountain stage or even try to survive until the last climb of the day. WvA does it all the time, and he still dominates the fight for early break and is still mixing in the sprint. Sagan was very much a 'intermediate' sprinter + a good position at the finish, and in the mountains / hills, he was only going for intermediate before going in the grupetto. WvA is almost never in the grupetto, he's more likely fighting for the stage win, even in mid-mountain stages or full mountain stages.

 

[saunaking]

WvA was superdominant for green. Nobody stood a chance. If he would have gone for green this year, he would have got it as easily as last year.
I have never seen Sagan win a mountain stage or even try to survive until the last climb of the day. WvA does it all the time, and he still dominates the fight for early break and is still mixing in the sprint. Sagan was very much a 'intermediate' sprinter + a good position at the finish, and in the mountains / hills, he was only going for intermediate before going in the grupetto. WvA is almost never in the grupetto, he's more likely fighting for the stage win, even in mid-mountain stages or full mountain stages.

If Wout was targeting the green jersey this year, he would be in 2nd place at best at the moment.

 

[Volderke]

If Wout was targeting the green jersey this year, he would be in 2nd place at best at the moment.

He would always be first. There is really no question about that. Even without 2 clear relegations for Philipsen, and you're missing out on the fact he didn't even try in Bordeaux.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Level-headed take on today, perhaps he'll still get a chance at a stage:

As Van Aert joked to reporters: "Me? I'm the best of the normal people."

 

[IndianCyclist]

"Now that Jonas has secured his Yellow Jersey, he should work for a stage win for WVA. It is his duty" Belgian media games begin

 

[Red Rick]

We all know Wout is gonna be in the breakaway on Saturday.