Teams & Riders Official Wout Van Aert thread

[KoopaCycling]

I don't think Pidcock is a useful comparison. He improved as a climber after ditching cross, but that is a skill that has little to do with the demands of a cross race. The accelerations and short duration power are arguably Wout's biggest weakness in the classics he desperately wants to win.

MVDP gets none of the spiritual benefit of riding cx (the crowds are at best indifferent to him) but I believe that he thinks his cross season is an important part of preparing for spring. I don't think Wout really is using cross as training but perhaps he should.

Other than snow or ice over pavement, cross isn't a bigger injury risk than riding up and down volcanoes all winter

At least not if you are the belgian favourite. If you're from the netherlands you sometimes have to remain wary of the crowd. I would not call the crowd indifferent to him. He's got supporters, but plenty of people who would rather see him lose to the belgians as well.

 

[Breh]

Did I say he was focusing on cross?

I just said he got nothing to prove there anymore.

If he enjoys it and has incentives to ride... he can be my guest and do what he wants, but it is clear it hasnt benefited him at all for a few years for his ambitions on the road.

You said he should be focussing on one thing. (Implying he is not focussing on one thing)
He already is focussing everything on the road.

 

[Salvarani]

You said he should be focussing on one thing. (Implying he is not focussing on one thing)
He already is focussing everything on the road.

1+1=2 in my world.

But you got it.

 

[Salvarani]

I dont know that his road goals have been affected by his cross, MvdP came out completely tanking the field on the road last year, and no-one accused him of wasting his time in the mud.

whilst its been Wouts crashes on the road that have harmed his road ambitions, that knee injury at the Vuelta is what caused his poor form in the classics the following year because literally the only time he'd ridden a bike competitively since that crash was doing CX, without that he'd probably have been even further back.

You keeping missing the point.

I said firstly, why keep doing cross when you got nothing to prove there?

If he enjoys it or has incentives to ride it, fine. It is understandable and that is his decision.

However, given his age and wanting to be his best self for the classics... and getting another big win in a monument... he just shouldnt be riding cross right now. IMO.

He is not MVDP, who usually does nothing after PR also btw. He is not expected to go full domestic in the mountains and assisting on many stages in the GTs. After doing cross. After doing classics. Does it sound very smart?

Anyway, as I said. He might have already wasted his best years on the road and the last few crashes has also taken a toll on him, so it doesnt really matter what he does. Cross, road or both. His window is maybe already closed for another big win.

 

[Sciatic]

I get your point, but cross means a lot to Wout, and this being the first time in 239 xcross races that he has had dnf. Safer to stay away from the road perhaps.

Sadly, it was a stretch of road (pavement) where that happened rather than the dirt/grass/sand that comprise 95 % of cross races.

 

[saunaking]

Anyway, as I said. He might have already wasted his best years on the road and the last few crashes has also taken a toll on him, so it doesnt really matter what he does. Cross, road or both. His window is maybe already closed for another big win.

Not sure what you mean wasted his best years. He is a very good/great rider. He's been up against just about the best classics riders ever unfortunately.
Still has had a great career and palmares

 

[Salvarani]

Not sure what you mean wasted his best years. He is a very good/great rider. He's been up against just about the best classics riders ever unfortunately.
Still has had a great career and palmares

I dont think his career or palmares is a good reflection on his talent. Not in terms of big wins.

 

[James M]

I dont think his career or palmares is a good reflection on his talent. Not in terms of big wins.

Van Aert is a perfect example of being a victim of the era he’s in. He was far better and more talented than his palmares shows.

 

[Salvarani]

Van Aert is a perfect example of being a victim of the era he’s in. He was far better and more talented than his palmares shows.

I dont see his situation being the case of being the victim of an era. Every era has great riders. He was one of them. Arguably one of two on the cobbles for a few years.

Him and his team just had other priorities.

He just never got the best out of himself in the classics for different reasons, at least in the most important races where he should be leaving a bigger legacy behind him. I feel like that is more up to him and the team than outside factors.

And his window likely closed in 2024.

However... him and them, should have probably made more out of 2019-2023, that is still a "long" peak and more than most get. They put the team first and had some big moments, so they didnt come away empty-handed. I just think given his talent that he possessed, he should have a couple of more monuments to his name. MVDP or no MVDP, because even Boonen and Cancellara traded more wins between them than what Van Aert and MVDP did.

If we leave Pog outside of this equation, whose battles with MVDP in the last couple of seasons became way more interesting.

 

[Oldman]

Pidcock had his best climbing season last year after giving up cross.

It's no longer worth it for Van Aert, because he's not even on par with MVDP like he was four years ago.

He has a better chance of winning San Remo than a cross race, and he has been skipping San Remo to train.

I don't think Pidcock is a useful comparison. He improved as a climber after ditching cross, but that is a skill that has little to do with the demands of a cross race. The accelerations and short duration power are arguably Wout's biggest weakness in the classics he desperately wants to win.

MVDP gets none of the spiritual benefit of riding cx (the crowds are at best indifferent to him) but I believe that he thinks his cross season is an important part of preparing for spring. I don't think Wout really is using cross as training but perhaps he should.

Other than snow or ice over pavement, cross isn't a bigger injury risk than riding up and down volcanoes all winter

The Pidcock improvement after cyclocross could be more about longer term, steadier state efforts on climbing. Wout was good at both; particularly considering his relative size. He is likely safer in 'cross than the road but he seems to have managed both very well.
As for Mathieu's spiritual satisfaction in 'cross; I can't recall him stating it was not fulfilling, crowd abuse aside. We don't get enough coverage here to get backstory information.

 

[Oldman]

Having seen some people with approx. the same injury, I'd say that, optimistically, he could be able to put pressure on that ankle / foot within a week and start training rollers again.
If not, it could be 1-2 weeks off the bike.

If he has any pressure on nerves; it could be worse than a bad wrist for rough pave. That may be the threshold for him. Feet have so many pressure points that even a bit of scar buildup can be serious for endurance sports with impact.

 

[James M]

I dont see his situation being the case of being the victim of an era. Every era has great riders. He was one of them. Arguably one of two on the cobbles for a few years.

Him and his team just had other priorities.

He just never got the best out of himself in the classics for different reasons, at least in the most important races where he should be leaving a bigger legacy behind him. I feel like that is more up to him and the team than outside factors.

And his window likely closed in 2024.

However... him and them, should have probably made more out of 2019-2023, that is still a "long" peak and more than most get. They put the team first and had some big moments, so they didnt come away empty-handed. I just think given his talent that he possessed, he should have a couple of more monuments to his name. MVDP or no MVDP, because even Boonen and Cancellara traded more wins between them than what Van Aert and MVDP did.

If we leave Pog outside of this equation, whose battles with MVDP in the last couple of seasons became way more interesting.

I agree about the window. My point was more that if you put WVA next to anyone but MvdP and Pog in any other era, he’d have more major wins, by that definition, a victim of the era hes in. Sure, he was one of them for a brief moment(at least arguably) before Pog went apocalypsis and MvdP improved aswell.

But if you put him up against the Kristoff–Terpstra era he would’ve won an RVV or PR imo thats all I meant.

 

[Salvarani]

I agree about the window. My point was more that if you put WVA next to anyone but MvdP and Pog in any other era, he’d have more major wins, by that definition, a victim of the era hes in. Sure, he was one of them for a brief moment(at least arguably) before Pog went apocalypsis and MvdP improved aswell.

But if you put him up against the Kristoff–Terpstra era he would’ve won an RVV or PR imo thats all I meant.

I feel like him and MVDP were on the same level at one point.

He just wasnt at his best level, where he should have been.

I cant say it is up to an era thing with him, when most of it has to do with himself letting him down on the big days. When it was supposed to be his time. Outside of GTs.

For me, he just missed his window where he should have won a couple more of these. Consistently underperforming in the biggest races. Not due to his talent. Not due to an era. Because we saw him and his talent dominate so many times.

 

[awavey]

You keeping missing the point.

I said firstly, why keep doing cross when you got nothing to prove there?

If he enjoys it or has incentives to ride it, fine. It is understandable and that is his decision.

However, given his age and wanting to be his best self for the classics... and getting another big win in a monument... he just shouldnt be riding cross right now. IMO.

He is not MVDP, who usually does nothing after PR also btw. He is not expected to go full domestic in the mountains and assisting on many stages in the GTs. After doing cross. After doing classics. Does it sound very smart?

Anyway, as I said. He might have already wasted his best years on the road and the last few crashes has also taken a toll on him, so it doesnt really matter what he does. Cross, road or both. His window is maybe already closed for another big win.

MvdP turned up at the Tour and won a stage in breakway last year, he does ride after PR sometimes and still does quite well. but I think Wout still had something to prove in Cross by beating MvdP at least one more time again, is it '22 since he last did it in a head to head race ? that for all the rivalry that gets built up around them both is going to rankle for a competitive pro cyclist, and yeah thats gone forever now.

I mean we sit around saying theyre just doing this because its fun and its just a way of training etc, but of course its the competition, they dont like to lose, they like to win, and beat their rivals.

I do think he's lost his outright favourite chances for a big win, he needs to follow the Alaphillipe/Cavendish model of learning to surf others wheels, and hope its not too hard a sprint finish.

 

[Oldman]

I feel like him and MVDP were on the same level at one point.

He just wasnt at his best level, where he should have been.

I cant say it is up to an era thing with him, when most of it has to do with himself letting him down on the big days.
When it was supposed to be his time. Outside of GTs.

For me, he just missed his window where he should have won a couple more of these. Consistently underperforming in the biggest races. Not due to his talent. Not due to an era.
Because we saw him and his talent dominate so many times.

You also can't discount the wear and tear of GTs. He was huge for JV in brutal efforts for 3 weeks. Training for that and executing comes at a cost that the team leader doesn't feel. Jonas gets to wait until conditions are right and, as we can see now that's proving a challenge.
The seminal moment for me was the picture of Wout, Primoz and Dumoulin when they realize Roglic lost the TT to Pogi. They all put out everything to settle for 2nd place and it wasn't the plan they thought they'd executed minutes before.

 

[Salvarani]

You also can't discount the wear and tear of GTs. He was huge for JV in brutal efforts for 3 weeks. Training for that and executing comes at a cost that the team leader doesn't feel. Jonas gets to wait until conditions are right and, as we can see now that's proving a challenge.
The seminal moment for me was the picture of Wout, Primoz and Dumoulin when they realize Roglic lost the TT to Pogi. They all put out everything to settle for 2nd place and it wasn't the plan they thought they'd executed minutes before.

Well, thats exactly my point.

Him and the team prioritized that, those efforts came at a cost. Which also makes his palmares not being what they should be. IMO.

 

[Rackham]

I think WVA needs cross, and not just for his emotional well being. I think those short bursts of accel or hard to emulate in practice. However with the freezing weather (hard ground, slippery, cold) yesterday was less than perfect to avoid injuries. Maybe he should ride cross only when it's above 2- 3 degrees or so.

WvA hasn't had the acceleration and sprint since his Vuelta 2024 crash. And that's the issue here, i.e. it took him a long time to recover from that injury. Mentally as well according to reports.

It just seems like cross has become a side quest at this point based on force of habit and muscle memory (doing what's expected of him in Belgium).

The smarter move would be to focus entirely on his road career and the one thing he still has going for him: his big engine.

 

[KoopaCycling]

WvA hasn't had the acceleration and sprint since his Vuelta 2024 crash. And that's the issue here, i.e. it took him a long time to recover from that injury. Mentally as well according to reports.

It just seems like cross has become a side quest at this point based on force of habit and muscle memory (doing what's expected of him in Belgium).

The smarter move would be to focus entirely on his road career and the one thing he still has going for him: his big engine.

You weren't watching then.
There was a cross that Nys won not long ago, high flying, above 30km/h
Constant accel out of the corners. WVA was slightly slower than the young guns, but he was there. Never completely losing touch. Which is not something a WVA from a year ago could have done imo.

Also the jitters caused WVA to lose cyclocross WC 2023. Mistiming his sprint as per usual. Thus giving advantage to the quicker short accel of MVDP.

Speaking of which, i have no doubt that a WVA that was feeling stronger every week was planning to make the WC a goal. Too many vague hints of evaluating after the BK.

 

[Barkintheeye]

Other than snow or ice over pavement, cross isn't a bigger injury risk than riding up and down volcanoes all winter

Agree with you on that. Cross is the discipline where the risk of ending up on the deck is the highest but also where the consequences are the smallest. However the worst scenario is the one with ice on tarmac where a rider risks to take a serious fall on a hard surface at quite high speed. Of the many falls WVA and MVDP have suffered over their careers in CX very few have resulted in serious injuries, unlike road and MTB.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Agree with you on that. Cross is the discipline where the risk of ending up on the deck is the highest but also where the consequences are the smallest. However the worst scenario is the one with ice on tarmac where a rider risks to take a serious fall on a hard surface at quite high speed. Of the many falls WVA and MVDP have suffered over their careers in CX very few have resulted in serious injuries, unlike road and MTB.

To the extent that this was his first DNF in 320 starts going back to 2010 (I don't know whether he completed the course in the 2014 national U23 race from which he was disqualified)

 

[Barkintheeye]

To the extent that this was his first DNF in 320 starts going back to 2010 (I don't know whether he completed the course in the 2014 national U23 race from which he was disqualified)

Yes, if WVA quits then it's something to be concerned about. No whining there.