Official xc skiing world cup thread

[Nielsa]

Ugh, I'm sometimes annoyed by the very early event scheduling of winter sports.
Got back to my apartment and I'm considering just staying up until the N.Combination x-country stage at 10:00 CET or at least the XC women's relay at 11:00.
I think if I set my alarm clock I'll just turn it off in my sleep and miss everything...

 

[airstream]

Uh... Fantastic skiing by Dasha, but again it's not enough. Still needs 1 stage off for Neuner to win the Crystal Globe..

 

[goggalor]

YES, Ole!! Great to see him win again.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Kokslien doubles up in Almaty, quite convincingly.

Ole was in position to profit but only if Martin Fourcade and Svendsen screwed up; even with a slight rifle problem at the final stand however he has the nous to get it right, and it's a well deserved victory. The Americans are just one piece of the puzzle away from being a genuine force in men's Biathlon (they are pretty one-gender like Belarus women or Austria men, they have some OK talents in the women but nothing like they do in the men) - Currier is very good in the sprint but seems to tumble down the order in the head-to-head races; Bailey is always right up there in the mix but seems to lack endurance, always faltering at shooting 4 and dropping time in the last couple of laps; Burke and Hakkinen are both very solid, especially the latter who has been coming into his own of late (Burke of course has been around for years).

Olga Zaitseva kind of needed the same out of Neuner and Mäkäräinen, but Mäkäräinen was solid as ever. A return to the norm in the stand for Miri today, 7 misses from standing is hard to spin in a positive way, but still, another top 20 is good for the rankings I guess. Domracheva is super-fast but Lena is very strong uphill, which meant that she was able to hold off the charging Belarusian with that finish today. Zaitseva lost something like 40 seconds to Dasha on that last lap, though I suspect when she knew that Lena and Darya were gone she just played it safe knowing Berger was way, way behind.

 

[Nielsa]

The Americans are just one piece of the puzzle away from being a genuine force in men's Biathlon

Yes, but they need to hurry up - Bailey is 31 (!), Burke is 30 already, Hakkinen is 35. Currier (who comes from Stockholm... in Maine ) at 24/25 is the exception. Hopefully they can get some podiums with this generation and inspire some kids. I know the national media doesn't cover the sport much outside of Olympic years, but for grassroots movements you only need local media coverage, and they have the National Guard programs too.


And... Bjørndalen is back!
And the men are crap at shooting compared to the women.

 

[roundabout]

This is a bit OT, but was the NC XC race in a quarry or something in Almaty?

Certainly Kokslien's words about a motocross track seemed true from the 15 minutes or so that I was able to catch

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yes, but they need to hurry up - Bailey is 31 (!), Burke is 30 already, Hakkinen is 35. Currier (who comes from Stockholm... in Maine ) at 24/25 is the exception. Hopefully they can get some podiums with this generation and inspire some kids. I know the national media doesn't cover the sport much outside of Olympic years, but for grassroots movements you only need local media coverage, and they have the National Guard programs too.


And... Bjørndalen is back!
And the men are crap at shooting compared to the women.

I didn't realise Hakkinen was so old, knew about Bailey and Burke. They still have some time, after all Andi Birnbacher is 30 and over the course of the second half of last season and this season has been totally rejuvenated, looks like he's enjoying himself again. The two rounds of the World Cup in Presque Isle and Fort Kent last year were pretty decent; they did quite a good job on the promotion, although with it being just before the Worlds and such a long travel, many major stars who weren't in line for overall WC glory elected not to travel and instead took part in the IBU Cup meetings. Still, they had some gimmicky stuff with schoolkids adopting a biathlete to support and learning about their home countries and so on, which I thought was a nice way of doing it. I seem to recall the trails at Fort Kent being very difficult, and at one point in the women's event Germany had 5 of the top 7 with Neuner, Henkel, Gößner, Bachmann and Hitzer killing everybody except (surprise) Domracheva and Mäkäräinen.

Currier is a sign of a decent future, he's fairly young, and pretty reliable in the individual start formats; needs to shore himself up in the pursuit/mass start though. Certainly they have a pretty good relay team though.

This is a bit OT, but was the NC XC race in a quarry or something in Almaty?

Certainly Kokslien's words about a motocross track seemed true from the 15 minutes or so that I was able to catch

It's weird, Almaty is on the edge of the Tian Shan mountain range, but beyond the mountains themselves it's very flat, treeless countryside there; I'm not sure of the exact location of the venue, or if they're even the same (they didn't hold Nordic Combined at the Asian Winter Games that the facility was built for). I think that it's right on the edge of the mountains, so you've basically got brushland that they're going through. It was very bizarre-looking to somebody weaned on the forests and gorges of Nordic and Alpine venues, especially with the grey-brownish mist of this morning.

 

[jsem94]

I saw the 10km NC XC race, and it sure looked weird. The snow looked contaminated and it sure didn't look like perfect racing conditions. Kokslien did great there though.

And I'm really disappointed with the teams in the mens relay today. They didn't even try to up the tempo to get rid of Northug, even though they all know he's unbeatable in a sprint. No one even tried.

Getting really worried about the Swedish biathlon racers too, no one has any skiing form whatsoever and they didn't have the best skis either. They've gotta step up their game for WC. And both Simon Fourcade and especially Tarjei Bø have got to improve. Tarjei's form has been so terrible the last few weeks.

 

[meandmygitane]

The cross-country skiers sure needs some tactics training.

1. Two skiers got away at the last leg of the relay, then Hellner (the third best sprinter) takes the responsibility to chase them when the only got a 15-20s gap, dragging the best (Northug) and the second best (Vylegzhanin) up to the front again.

2. When Hellner tries to ski away from the lead group then Robin Duvillard tries to close the gap, why? Duvillard had just skied up to the group and had no reason whatsoever to expend energy, the only result was that Hellner couldn-t get away and Duvillard got dropped. So badly thought out.

It is Pozzato all over again.

 

[maltiv]

The cross-country skiers sure needs some tactics training.

1. Two skiers got away at the last leg of the relay, then Hellner (the third best sprinter) takes the responsibility to chase them when the only got a 15-20s gap, dragging the best (Northug) and the second best (Vylegzhanin) up to the front again.

2. When Hellner tries to ski away from the lead group then Robin Duvillard tries to close the gap, why? Duvillard had just skied up to the group and had no reason whatsoever to expend energy, the only result was that Hellner couldn-t get away and Duvillard got dropped. So badly thought out.

It is Pozzato all over again.

It's absolutely remarkable how bad those guys are at tactics. If they had 1/10 of the tactical sense an avarage cyclists has, Northug wouldn't have won half as many races as he does.

When Northug goes to the back of the group, which he does all the time, one of them could attack, while the rest look to Northug to respond. Because he's at the back, the gap will already be 15s or so when/if Northug would hit the front and he'd actually have to do some work. Repeat if he manages to catch the guy. Particularly today when Northug's form is horrible they could have dropped him so easily...

 

[Nielsa]

Max V tried to do that. I think it was when Hellner took off...? Max V just stayed behind Northug and waited for him to close the gap, which Northug eventually was forced to do. But of course it was not enough to tire Northug out... if they had done this a few more times, then maybe.

But, yeah. Relays ending up with Northug in a bunch group are usually like a Cavendish stage. Meh.
Max V did win a sprint against N. in some mass start a while back. He's the Greipel of the circus.

 

[maltiv]

Max V tried to do that. I think it was when Hellner took off...? Max V just stayed behind Northug and waited for him to close the gap, which Northug eventually was forced to do. But of course it was not enough to tire Northug out... if they had done this a few more times, then maybe.

But, yeah. Relays ending up with Northug in a bunch group are usually like a Cavendish stage. Meh.
Max V did win a sprint against N. in some mass start a while back. He's the Greipel of the circus.

They did it half-heartedly and at the completely wrong moment, because Northug was already in the 3rd position then. Had they done something like that when he was at the back it'd be much more effective.

It's a bit as if Cavendish were riding LBL and everyone were riding so slowly that it'd end up in a 150 man bunch sprint of which Cav would win easily.

 

[meandmygitane]

They did it half-heartedly and at the completely wrong moment, because Northug was already in the 3rd position then. Had they done something like that when he was at the back it'd be much more effective.

It's a bit as if Cavendish were riding LBL and everyone were riding so slowly that it'd end up in a 150 man bunch sprint of which Cav would win easily.

Northug is a tactical genius compared to the other racers, he knows when to advance, when to stay calm and where to attack. He is the Le Patron when he is in the bunch, commanding respect from everybody. He and Norway certainly deserved the victory, both Ronning and Sundby made very good attacks at the end of their relay legs, when the swedes were in the back of the groups

I have a feeling he wouldn't do so bad as a cyclist, as far as tactics go.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Max V tried to do that. I think it was when Hellner took off...? Max V just stayed behind Northug and waited for him to close the gap, which Northug eventually was forced to do. But of course it was not enough to tire Northug out... if they had done this a few more times, then maybe.

But, yeah. Relays ending up with Northug in a bunch group are usually like a Cavendish stage. Meh.
Max V did win a sprint against N. in some mass start a while back. He's the Greipel of the circus.

No, Petter was leading the chase initially after Hellner opened up a gap, but Vylegzhanin quickly overtook him and closed the gap with Northug glued to the back of his skis.

 

[python]

.......

And I'm really disappointed with the teams in the mens relay today. They didn't even try to up the tempo to get rid of Northug, even though they all know he's unbeatable in a sprint. No one even tried.

this is what I saw too. the last leg was very tactical.

slow pace was too obvious if the kazakhs and italy 2 were allowed to catch up. even rusia 2 (chernousov) was able to close almost 1 full minute…….vylegghanin was only concerned with marking northug and hellner happy to take a breather after expanding lots of energy catching the bunch. he was the winner of the day for me. he finally attacked again but tired lacked the punch. i think if rus1 included legkov and chernousov, they could, but just, stretch the norges…

on xc ski tactics...compared to cycling, xc skiing tactical options are more limited particularly during a relay race. this is partly b/c it takes more energy and space to pass someone and partly b/c drafting advantage is smaller…that is, brute strength and fitness are likelier be decisive in xc skiing. northug’s tactical skills and sprint could certainly win him some spring classics but i doubt he would dominate cycling as he does xc skiing. besides, when passing people, he is not averse to stretching rules. you can do it only so often in cycling, before you get shut down by the angry dss and riders.

 

[TomasC]

MG

So what do you think happened to Miri Gössner compared to last year? I'm talking about skiing speed of course.
Last year she was the 2nd best skier of all the season with some best skiing times as well.
This year she's around 10th spot or a bit better when she really tries.
I've seen some video from last year, her skeeing seemed way "lighter" or even "effortless".
Hard to tell but I wouldn't bet on her weight being the same as last year. A case of Ullrich syndrome ?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

No real mystery with Miri; last year her skiing was up there with the best, but her shooting was shocking; even in most of her best performances (Fort Kent, Östersund) there were misses in there, and she'd be a guaranteed penalty loop in the relays (4 at Pokljuka, 2 at Antholz and 1 in the Worlds). I don't know about the weight, but she did a lot of working on her shooting in the off-season, because the skiing didn't need the same amount of work. At times we've seen the shooting work come off, but at other times it has been a real struggle, I think a lot of it is mental as after races she's talked about having shot perfectly in the training then lost it in the race. But this focus on the shooting has meant that her skiing has suffered from comparative neglect.

At the same time, much like last year the Russians gambled their season (unsuccessfully) on the Worlds, several of the Germans have built their season up towards their home Worlds; Arnd Peiffer, for example, had a very poor start to the season for a guy who was in the top 4 of the WC the year before but has come into his own since Oberhof. Miri's performances have been improving steadily this season, but not reaching the level that they did last year. It's not been a spectacular fall from grace à la Tarjei Bø, but I won't pretend it's not disappointing.

 

[TomasC]

OK, let's hope she's a bit better in Ruhpolding and on the top the next season

 

[python]

amazing 2nd heat - neither jastyna and bjoergen made their mark.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

cross-country ski now on eurosport..i dont think it's live.
http://www.sportlemon.tv/v-2/16/74/v-367510.html

 

[jsem94]

Randall making it back to that finish group - WOW. She obviously had used too much energy to be able to win, but still...

And Morilov failed epically right at the finish line. That was a real facepalm moment.

 

[roundabout]

So what do you think happened to Miri Gössner compared to last year? I'm talking about skiing speed of course.
Last year she was the 2nd best skier of all the season with some best skiing times as well.
This year she's around 10th spot or a bit better when she really tries.
I've seen some video from last year, her skeeing seemed way "lighter" or even "effortless".
Hard to tell but I wouldn't bet on her weight being the same as last year. A case of Ullrich syndrome ?

She was had surgery in the summer to fix intestinal knotting.

 

[python]

about an hour is left to the start of man’s classic style 15 km tt in szklarska poreba…

interesting to see yesterday’s sprint winner kershaw at the start. Will he pay today for his sprint yesterday ? cologna will be there too, starting last. in the absence of northug (of course i'm not talking about his bro we saw yesterday), i’d bet on him but this classic tt may surprise. i’d absolutely love to see rickardsson do something special finally.

...the russians are traditionally strong in the classic races. will legkov repeat his tds form ? i’d bet on him but he’s not consistent. otoh, despite yesterday’s sprints, i can see maxim v. on the podium. who else ? certainly hellner as he seems getting in peak shape. we'll see soon.

 

[python]

the race just finished...

great job by olsson ! didn't i bet on a swede ? but missed this one .

cologna 2nd, what a frecking animal to manage this on waxless skis (the only one of the podiumers)

legkov also proved me wrong - 3d.

 

[goggalor]

Bizarre production in the 10 km race right now... Basically just crowd shots.

Edit: Oh dear, that was brutal.