Ok, I just saw Lance's new Nike ad.

[rhubroma]

Personally not a fan of Lance mainly due to his attacks on others in the cycling community that stood in his way and for making the tour boring for a few years, however, I personally don't think there's too much wrong with him promoting a cancer charity. Yes, he is also promoting himself so I don't consider him an altruistic philantropist, but if it raises money and awareness for those in need then it's not a bad thing.

I think the slant of the add is where he loses credibility. It would, in my opinion, be more insperational of him to go along the lines of: I was told I probably wouldn't live let alone ride my bike etc - and I won 7 tours (which he did by the way, and they all doped), rather than bringing into question those who questioned his attitude and methords.

What was remarkable about what he did was that he beat, what by all accounts was a nasty bout of cancer and went on to win the tour, not that people think he's arrogant and a doper but look he's really a good guy.

No what I think is important here, the real issue, is that it is absurd to believe he won 7 tours after cancer (and even if he hadn't gone through the cancer bout) on bread and water.

He passes us all off for morons by continuously lying about it. If he had remained just another oper in a sport where doping is the culture, then fine. But he decided to go public with his cancer foundation and will be using it in the future for other public objectives. It's the hypocricy and cynicism which offends. For me those who don't want to see this have lost sight of what really matters. And the cancer community has plenty of other more serious backing. No its about Armstrong and that's it.

 

[auscyclefan94]

For the record, I usually can't stand cancer survivors.

Your a very sad, disturbed man

 

[auscyclefan94]

I agree. But look at the number of posts of all the Lance haters. Its in the hundreds. They congregate here and engage in groupthink therapy about how evil Lance Armstrong is. Most people who admire and Armstrong and believe he is clean "get it" and don't need the therapy of hanging out with like minded adherents in a biking forum to the tune of 500+ posts. I am probably the only poster here with 100+ posts which is an admirer of Armstrong and believe he is clean. But . . . I'm on vacation so I have time to blog . . . as well as being such a cycling fan that I feel like a man dying of thirst in a desert approaching an oasis that I should arrive at by Saturday at the start of the TT in Milan. Thus my prior . . . "I come here to sate a casual interest in cycling . . . ." comment.

I don't hate Lance and my post by the end of today will be in the hundreds. I personally think he is very arrogant. You can't nessercarily say he is clean due to all the suspicion around him but i won't call him a cheat. Lance is a great ambassordor for cycling and cancer. The nike ad is a great (as usual) and i could forsee that it would cause controversey amongst the group of posters.

 

[180mmCrank]

It is a TV advert. Like lots of adverts it distorts / emphasises a particular view of the World to make a point with impact.

The advert leverages the unquestionable inspirational impact of Lance's story for many many people. It puts this alongside folk that are fighting heroically for their lives / recovery.

As I say it's a TV advert - JUST DO IT.

Lance is Lance nothing about this changes my view of the man - he is a full throttle live life at the max guy. He fights for what he wants / believes in. He is win at just about any cost. He is very focussed on his own goals...some of those goals encompass other folk but many don't.

Some will see a warrior others will see a bully. In my view it's all about context...being a warrior on a bike or fighting cancer has a good chance of looking heroic. Being a warrior in many other situations looks a lot like bullying / arrogant.

One man's meat another man's poison

 

[SpeedWay]

The commercial is not a statement of how Lance feels, nor is it a public service announcement. It's a slick commercial. Put out by Nike. To sell stuff. End of story.

I can't recall Nike ever making a bad commercial.

Don't expect most of these haters to get their mind around that concept. The labile affect was achieved albeit just like shooting fish in a barrel. Now we'll get the requisite posts on drugs, cheats, and hate until the fat lady sings. Then we'll do it again on another thread over and over and over and over.

 

[Deagol]

It is a TV advert. Like lots of adverts it distorts / emphasises a particular view of the World to make a point with impact.

The advert leverages the unquestionable inspirational impact of Lance's story for many many people. It puts this alongside folk that are fighting heroically for their lives / recovery.

As I say it's a TV advert - JUST DO IT.

Lance is Lance nothing about this changes my view of the man - he is a full throttle live life at the max guy. He fights for what he wants / believes in. He is win at just about any cost. He is very focussed on his own goals...some of those goals encompass other folk but many don't.

Some will see a warrior others will see a bully. In my view it's all about context...being a warrior on a bike or fighting cancer has a good chance of looking heroic. Being a warrior in many other situations looks a lot like bullying / arrogant.

One man's meat another man's poison

I think this position sums it up for me, too. Often reality is not black & white, but rather shades of gray. Back in the 90’s, I first heard of LA after he won in Sweden. Someone I knew used to know did work with him prior and said he was very arrogant (well before his reign at the TDF). That was my first impression, but without any first-hand experience. I’ve thought about all that is said about him and believe that a good deal of it is probably true. But then I think of the people I run into in cycling even as a failed “hobby racer” and how arrogant they can be. (My experience with bike racing as a sucky cat 4 is that of being “beat up on” by guys who actually have coaches and still used “team tactics” on those of us who were racing as individuals…. Anyway, whatever). Then I have to feel that some of these (arrogant) qualities manifest themselves in so much of the human population, that I have to cut LA some slack for that type of behavior. My brother has cancer and has been very inspired by Lance after spending a lot of time on the Livestrong website. It’s not that my brother is some wide-eyed naive “fanboy” or anything even approaching that, actually he is just as cynical as most people on here, but there is something intangible that goes beyond the whole doping debate that touches and inspires so many that are looking at their own mortality. I do feel very bad for Simeoni, at the same time (not familiar with the Bassons incident mentioned here). Like I said, it’s all shades of gray ……

 

[uphillstruggle]

No what I think is important here, the real issue, is that it is absurd to believe he won 7 tours after cancer (and even if he hadn't gone through the cancer bout) on bread and water.

He passes us all off for morons by continuously lying about it. If he had remained just another oper in a sport where doping is the culture, then fine. But he decided to go public with his cancer foundation and will be using it in the future for other public objectives. It's the hypocricy and cynicism which offends. For me those who don't want to see this have lost sight of what really matters. And the cancer community has plenty of other more serious backing. No its about Armstrong and that's it.

I was kind of trying to make the same point as you, in that where Lance loses all credibility here is in using his and others cancer to sway the 'did he didn't he' dope question in his favour rather than just using his cycling ability to promote himself and cancer awareness. Yes it is oppertunistic and he has clearly confussed the notion of using his image to help cancer with using cancer to help his image.

That said, he did have cancer and although I don't like Lance I think any kind of ruthless business man would after going through that want to give something back even if in doing so he also used the cause to further his image.

And as said by other above it is in Nike's intrest to make their front man seem clean.

And I know he didn't win clean but neither did pantani and ullrich and as far as I know they never admitted anything.

 

[Kennf1]

Don't expect most of these haters to get their mind around that concept. The labile affect was achieved albeit just like shooting fish in a barrel. Now we'll get the requisite posts on drugs, cheats, and hate until the fat lady sings. Then we'll do it again on another thread over and over and over and over.

For the record, I think the guy is dirty as hell (along with the entire sport). I guess I'm just disturbed at the power of advertising on people in both camps.

 

[davidg]

For the record, I usually can't stand cancer survivors. I'm not exactly sure why the whole armstrong/livestrong/whatever thing doesn't bother me as much as much fight/survive cancer talk.

Are you for real?

Would it make you feel better if no-one survived this terrible disease.

Get a life!

 

[Anonymous]

No what I think is important here, the real issue, is that it is absurd to believe he won 7 tours after cancer (and even if he hadn't gone through the cancer bout) on bread and water.

He passes us all off for morons by continuously lying about it. If he had remained just another oper in a sport where doping is the culture, then fine. But he decided to go public with his cancer foundation and will be using it in the future for other public objectives. It's the hypocricy and cynicism which offends. For me those who don't want to see this have lost sight of what really matters. And the cancer community has plenty of other more serious backing. No its about Armstrong and that's it.

so you think he should have just given it up and said. "yep, I did it"?

You think the world would be better off without the Lance Armstrong foundation?

You don't think he's inspired people to give that wouldn't have other wise?

You think the people who bought those wrist band for instance would have just given their dollar to some other cancer charity?

Who's the moron?

 

[Amsterhammer]

For the record, I usually can't stand cancer survivors. I'm not exactly sure why the whole armstrong/livestrong/whatever thing doesn't bother me as much as much fight/survive cancer talk.

I apologize in advance because I dislike others doing what I'm about to do - BUT - what kind of utter imbecile would write such a sentence??? Incredible. Tell you what, fella, I hope you never have to experience someone in your family trying to fight this killer disease or, heaven forbid, dying from it.

 

[rhubroma]

so you think he should have just given it up and said. "yep, I did it"?

You think the world would be better off without the Lance Armstrong foundation?

You don't think he's inspired people to give that wouldn't have other wise?

You think the people who bought those wrist band for instance would have just given their dollar to some other cancer charity?

Who's the moron?

That you're a moron is quite clear from the posts you've troubled everyone with here.

In any case, no I think the cancer community doesn't need Armstrong for he sells dreams not real hope. And the dreams he sells are for his own personal benifit and to remain visible in the public sphere as a launching pad to future objectives. It is all just a grotesque propaganda campaign and demagoguery to court the likes of fanboys like yourself.

I'm all for supporting the cancer community, just not through any foundation associated with him. He is a liar and has supported, and continues to support, the omertà and corruption of pro cycling. In my book, that doesn't make him fit to recieve any other accolades nor to have a public career. What's even more perverse and cynical is that he is manipulating people by arrousing their sentiments through the terminally sick.

No Armstrong needs to be unmasked, instead he's able to use his power in cycling, his money and the corporate world (that only thinks of making money off of him and could care less about the ethical concerns), to glorify himself through reinforcing a manipulated public consensus and to shield himself from the people who know it's all just a fraud.

Apparently for most people it's easier to buy into the propaganda, watch the Nike publicity and feel all warm and fuzzy inside about what "goodness and wholesomeness" are behind the man's cause, than to stare such cynicism in the face. And it's quite nauseating at times to watch the incredible farce. Like I said, helping the cancer community is noble, just not that when you do you also contribute to this farce.

 

[Azdak6]

It is a TV advert. Like lots of adverts it distorts / emphasises a particular view of the World to make a point with impact.

The advert leverages the unquestionable inspirational impact of Lance's story for many many people. It puts this alongside folk that are fighting heroically for their lives / recovery.

As I say it's a TV advert - JUST DO IT.

Lance is Lance nothing about this changes my view of the man - he is a full throttle live life at the max guy. He fights for what he wants / believes in. He is win at just about any cost. He is very focussed on his own goals...some of those goals encompass other folk but many don't.

Some will see a warrior others will see a bully. In my view it's all about context...being a warrior on a bike or fighting cancer has a good chance of looking heroic. Being a warrior in many other situations looks a lot like bullying / arrogant.

One man's meat another man's poison

Like you say, Armstrong is what he is. In the real world, that means he is a complex person with strengths and weaknesses, positives and human shortcomings. I don't have a lot of patience or respect for those who insist on making him a cartoon character--whether it's as a saint or the antichrist.

 

[TrapperJohn]

It's a TV commercial, f'crying out loud. It's designed to evoke a reaction from the viewer, keep them thinking about the product.

Looks like they were successful.

 

[Anonymous]

so you think he should have just given it up and said. "yep, I did it"?

You think the world would be better off without the Lance Armstrong foundation?

You don't think he's inspired people to give that wouldn't have other wise?

You think the people who bought those wrist band for instance would have just given their dollar to some other cancer charity?

Who's the moron?

Why, that would be you.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Then I have to feel that some of these (arrogant) qualities manifest themselves in so much of the human population, that I have to cut LA some slack for that type of behavior. My brother has cancer and has been very inspired by Lance after spending a lot of time on the Livestrong website. It’s not that my brother is some wide-eyed naive “fanboy” or anything even approaching that, actually he is just as cynical as most people on here, but there is something intangible that goes beyond the whole doping debate that touches and inspires so many that are looking at their own mortality. I do feel very bad for Simeoni, at the same time (not familiar with the Bassons incident mentioned here). Like I said, it’s all shades of gray ……

Exactly the point I tried to make in this post:

forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=33258&postcount=193

 

[Anonymous]

It's a TV commercial, f'crying out loud. It's designed to evoke a reaction from the viewer, keep them thinking about the product.

Looks like they were successful.

Yea, I eschewed any Nike clothing today in my shopping.

I am repulsed by the message that Lance Armstrong is a good guy because people have cancer. I am equally indignant about his portraying himself as a hero and nice guy because he had cancer and didn't die. A lot of people think midgets are nice people or that people in wheelchairs are nice because of their afflictions. I knew a midget that was an *** and a person in a wheelchair that was a complete tool.

For him to have associated his personal problems with the goodness of people with cancer (because who can attack that?) tells me not only is he an *** and complete tool, but his narcissistic need to control his image in every aspect has turned cancer into a marketing campaign for one of the largest corporations in the world. And you can play out the "100% goes to LAF" but LAF ain't that hot at spending money wisely in case you haven't bothered to look, on top of the fact that I would like to see the balance sheet to see what line items are included in "cost" to the company. I am guessing that multi-million dollar media campaign wasn't free, and that somewhere along the way, they are taking a slice in the form of fees placed along the chain from factories where little children in 3rd world countries make the stuff to your local sporting goods store, but that is just a guess.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

In any case, no I think the cancer community doesn't need Armstrong for he sells dreams not real hope.

What??? Armstrong is making some really outstanding lemonade out of some sour lemons and your taking him to task for it. The inspiration and hope is REAL. I won't repeat myself, so please see this post.

And the dreams he sells are for his own personal benifit and to remain visible in the public sphere as a launching pad to future objectives. It is all just a grotesque propaganda campaign and demagoguery to court the likes of fanboys like yourself.

He also personally benefits from it, to be sure. So? Cancer doctors that heal more directly, benefit from that too. So what?

I'm all for supporting the cancer community, just not through any foundation associated with him. He is a liar and has supported, and continues to support, the omertà and corruption of pro cycling.

Ugh. I am repeating myself, but this needs to be said again. You know better. Of course he is lying! He is a successful professional cyclist who necessarily dopes and of course can't be honest about it! DUH!. That's a given. He couldn't be where he was, or able to inspire and, yes actually help people heal, if it wasn't for who he was and how he got there. You know he can't be honest about any of that, and what would be the point if he could?

In my book, that doesn't make him fit to recieve any other accolades nor to have a public career. What's even more perverse and cynical is that he is manipulating people by arrousing their sentiments through the terminally sick.

You have totally and completely failed to identify a single speck of harm to anyone that Armstrong is causing, yet you want to bring him down. You remind me of Communists who instead of sprucing up their house to keep up with the neighbor's, damage the neighbor's house instead. Do you realize how transparent your core motivation here is? Pathetic.

No Armstrong needs to be unmasked, instead he's able to use his power in cycling, his money and the corporate world (that only thinks of making money off of him and could care less about the ethical concerns), to glorify himself through reinforcing a manipulated public consensus and to shield himself from the people who know it's all just a fraud.

Classic envy. God forbid we allow someone to "glorify" himself. The horror!

Apparently for most people it's easier to buy into the propaganda, watch the Nike publicity and feel all warm and fuzzy inside about what "goodness and wholesomeness" are behind the man's cause, than to stare such cynicism in the face. And it's quite nauseating at times to watch the incredible farce. Like I said, helping the cancer community is noble, just not that when you do you also contribute to this farce.

Dude, take a good hard look in the mirror. Is this who you really want to be?

 

[Deagol]

Exactly the point I tried to make in this post:

forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=33258&postcount=193

There were some very profound statements made there. No doubt some will agree and some will not, but it seemed a very truthful and unflinching assessment of the situation. For the record, I don’t know how much I “trust” the foundation but I have to trust the judgment of those who have delved into it deeper and decided to support it. I don’t have any Nike stuff that I can think of and don’t wear the yellow Livestrong band. I thought about it as a show of support for my brother, but actually wearing the band annoyed me (not for any reason other than it felt annoying on my wrist). I thought to myself that, aside from the placebo effect, wearing the “band” wasn’t doing anything for him and so I just gave a large sum of money- all that I could spare at the time- to him to help offset some of the mounting expenses instead, along with spending lots of time by his side. I think many people here on either side of the debate have made good arguments, but in the end, any human being is a combination of saint and sinner and this situation is no different. Having said that, from what I have observed about cancer, no human could go through that horrible experience and not develop a strong and true bond with other cancer victims and want to help them if they could. I have seen proud and obstinate people broken down to an extreme degree of humility. I have to guess that Lance is no different in at least that one regard. I have to guess that he does feel a genuine connection and concern for fellow cancer victims and is doing what he feels is best to help that cause out, while working within his own ambitions to return to racing at the top. In some ways, maybe it seems like he is “trying to have his cake and eat it too” but that’s not any of our calls here, is it?

 

[hfer07]

It's a TV commercial, f'crying out loud. It's designed to evoke a reaction from the viewer, keep them thinking about the product.

Looks like they were successful.

Even if I ever was his fan, I can assure you that by watching the commercial, It won't make me stop by the nearest sporting shop and buy those ridiculously overpriced items with his foundation name on them......

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

...Lance is a great ambassador for cycling and cancer.

Cancer, yes. As much as I don't like the guy, I'm not in the camp that thinks he's a total fraud here. I personally won't donate to LAF, but do think he offers inspiration to many.

Cycling, no. While he did help raise the interest of the sport in the United States, any American who could win some, and talk a lot, could have done that during the Internet/Sports Network cable TV era. The reason why I say "no" is that the sport as a whole has a cancer on it in the form of doping that's eating it from the inside out and is destroying it. We've seen this in scandal after scandal after scandal, and Lance has repeatedly shown himself which side of the doping problem he's on. More than any other cyclist in history Lance could have helped clean up the sport, and yet he has done none of the such, the opposite in fact - despite how Jack, byu123 or others would like to spin it.

Yea, I eschewed any Nike clothing today in my shopping.

Hate to say this, but while I beleive Nike may be the worst, I think with some digging you'll find that Adidas, Reebok, Ascis, etc. are all quite similar. Even New Balance, who still makes a tiny amount of their shoes in the USA and doesn't have that "in your face" branding, all pretty much operate with the same Corporate America mindset. Rare is the company this day that operates like this one. Though many could easily afford to.

 

[Anonymous]

Hate to say this, but while I beleive Nike may be the worst, I think with some digging you'll find that Adidas, Reebok, Ascis, etc. are all quite similar. Even New Balance, who still makes a tiny amount of their shoes in the USA and doesn't have that "in your face" branding, all pretty much operate with the same Corporate America mindset. Rare is the company this day that operates like this one. Though many could easily afford to.

I can only run in Asics Gel Kayano's or New Balance 766 because of all of that floating cartilage and other various knee damage from starting running when I was 12.....SAS is pretty cool though.

Plus, my boycott of Nike has more to do with their support of Mr Armstrong. I fully recognize that it is impossible to get away from the fruits of child labor....

 

[Anonymous]

Cancer, yes. As much as I don't like the guy, I'm not in the camp that thinks he's a total fraud here. I personally won't donate to LAF, but do think he offers inspiration to many.

Cycling, no. While he did help raise the interest of the sport in the United States, any American who could win some, and talk a lot, could have done that during the Internet/Sports Network cable TV era. The reason why I say "no" is that the sport as a whole has a cancer on it in the form of doping that's eating it from the inside out and is destroying it. We've seen this in scandal after scandal after scandal, and Lance has repeatedly shown himself which side of the doping problem he's on. More than any other cyclist in history Lance could have helped clean up the sport, and yet he has done none of the such, the opposite in fact - despite how Jack, byu123 or others would like to spin it.

Talk about spin.

it's Lances job to clean up the sport.
He's been gone three races and it's his fault.
And worst of all, he comes back, so it's even more his fault.

It much be nice to have such a blanket scapegoat.

I'm dizzy.

Why are not UCI, USDA and who ever else might have taken his blood, urine and hair 40 times or so this season released his results back to him so he can post them?

Are they worried he might use them to fine tune a program?

If so, maybe that's a good idea, but you can't fault lance that the most recent test result posted is 4/30/09

He's clean.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Cycling, no. While he did help raise the interest of the sport in the United States, any American who could win some, and talk a lot, could have done that during the Internet/Sports Network cable TV era. The reason why I say "no" is that the sport as a whole has a cancer on it in the form of doping that's eating it from the inside out and is destroying it. We've seen this in scandal after scandal after scandal, and Lance has repeatedly shown himself which side of the doping problem he's on. More than any other cyclist in history Lance could have helped clean up the sport, and yet he has done none of the such, the opposite in fact - despite how Jack, byu123 or others would like to spin it.

Doping has been a part of the cycling culture since the beginning. Among the many requirements for succeeding in pro cycling there is:

1) dope
2) deny doping
3) honor the code of silence

You know this, don't you? You don't appear to be one of the naive ones. Yet, you fault Armstrong. Why? To fault someone for doing what you know he is essentially required to do is a little disingenuous, don't you think?

You say you think Lance could have cleaned up the sport. Really? Do you think cycling is less clean than any other sport? Swimming? Track & Field? Tennis? Football? Basketball? Baseball? You think one guy could really clean it up? No sport does as much to try to keep doping under some semblance of control as does cycling. We can argue about whether the result actually reduces or increases the actually doping, but let's not. You really believe this one guy could have, or still could, done something that would really change things? Pardon me while I laugh my head off. These guys are driven to win, willing to do whatever it takes, as long as they can get away with it, within some reasonable level of risk.

Even if Lance could do something (I have no idea what) to "clean up the sport" (no idea what that would look like - do you?), who are you to hoist that responsibility upon him? If he could do it, and he did choose to do it, that would be something to credit him for doing, sure. But to take him to task for not doing some vague thing to supposedly help clean up cycling? What is that about?

I'm sorry, but these Lance hating posts are starting to look more and more like pathetic whines of plain old ordinary envy.

 

[Anonymous]

That you're a moron is quite clear from the posts you've troubled everyone with here.

In any case, no I think the cancer community doesn't need Armstrong for he sells dreams not real hope. And the dreams he sells are for his own personal benifit and to remain visible in the public sphere as a launching pad to future objectives. It is all just a grotesque propaganda campaign and demagoguery to court the likes of fanboys like yourself.

you are a sick, sick puppy.