Olympic Road Race

[King Of The Wolds]

Lame bit of barely hidden nationalism....jingo much?

Why would I hide my nationalism? Human beings, as determined by millenia of evolution, are tribal and territorial. We're hard wired, no point fighting it. So I follow the Brits, want them to win and fully expect us to lay on a course that would give us the best chance to win. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate and admire a Cancellara, Contador or Gilbert.

As stated before though, I think geography pretty much determined what they could lay on. What would be your route?

 

[El Pistolero]

Here's the profile (about half way down the page):http://road.cc/content/news/30829-a...race-course-proves-rumours-route-were-correct

9 x 175m high/4-5km length climbs between 75-200km followed by 50 km drag to the finish line.

Now, forgive me, but this looks remarkably similar to Gent Wevelgem. A Cav fave for sure but not a shoo in. Past winners of GW: EBH, Freire, Burghardt, Hushovd, Klier, Cippolini, Hincapie.

A pretty good mix of rouleurs and sprinters there. I'm afraid that the London parcours was NEVER going to offer the grimpeurs much to get excited about. This race is far less of a procession to a Cav coronation than some people think.

Even a pancake would look mountainous on a scale like the one you just showed

And you do realize G-W course changed a lot and that is has cobbles and wind creating echelons right?

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Yes. Most definately. I think its a disgrace that Bolt wins "greatest athlete events" because hes the market boy, while Kenenisa whose one of the greatest athletes of all time gets ignored. A shame Team Bolt ended up not agreeing to the 600m race. Would have put him down.

And the key point is that with climbers, and marathon runners, you see the har work live. You see the pain on their faces, pushing themselves to the limit.

Cavs hard work comes before the race. During the race hes working no doubt, but the sprint is often taken within himself. Often has energy left.

Cav put in the hard work before hand no doubt, but in races people often want to see who wants it more on the day. Who is willing to kill themselves for that shot at glory. Not who comes in fastest with the pack.

So it's the pain on the race day that determines the worth? Cav looked utterly spent on Stage 5, was that worthy? How about a 400m runner? Is he more worthy than Bekele? I can tell you from experience that a massive lactic acid build up, not experienced by endurance athletes, is a pain that I wouldn't wish on my worse enemy.

 

[El Pistolero]

Why would I hide my nationalism? Human beings, as determined by millenia of evolution, are tribal and territorial. We're hard wired, no point fighting it. So I follow the Brits, want them to win and fully expect us to lay on a course that would give us the best chance to win. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate and admire a Cancellara, Contador or Gilbert.

As stated before though, I think geography pretty much determined what they could lay on. What would be your route?

Why not make a few artificial ramps to make it a bit more selective(like they have in cyclocross)?

It's not like more crazy things have been done at the Olympic games

But who ever said that the race can only take place in London?

 

[LugHugger]

Even a pancake would look mountainous on a scale like the one you just showed

And you do realize G-W course changed a lot and that is has cobbles and wind creating echelons right?

Try comparing these scales:http://www.gent-wevelgem.be/system/files/349/original/GW_2011_Parcours.pdf?1301061667

Similar distance, similar elevation differentials. And you clearly know very little of British summers if you think that there is no risk of wind echelons forming (not that they do at GW every year)

The point is that given the very similar parcours, that there is EVERY chance that the race can be animated to suit more than one rider or team.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

But who ever said that the race can only take place in London?

Well, it is the London Olympics. The clue is in the question. You need a compact games, so they've put on as much within the Park itself, or within London, as possible. That's perfectly understandable, as you're showcasing the events to as many people as possible and reducing the need to ship out thousands of people beyond the city. However, in 2008, they had the finish at the Great Wall. A truly iconic venue, so they could get away with that. Where would you suggest? Watford? Hemel Hempstead? Slough?

 

[El Pistolero]

Well, it is the London Olympics. The clue is in the question. You need a compact games, so they've put on as much within the Park itself, or within London, as possible. That's perfectly understandable, as you're showcasing the events to as many people as possible and reducing the need to ship out thousands of people beyond the city. However, in 2008, they had the finish at the Great Wall. A truly iconic venue, so they could get away with that. Where would you suggest? Watford? Hemel Hempstead? Slough?

I think they can get away with one event not taking fully place in London

 

[King Of The Wolds]

I think they can get away with one event not taking fully place in London

They are. The sailing's on the south coast and the rowing is out in Berkshire. These were necessary, as London isn't built on the sea and they couldn't find anywhere suitable within the city to build a 2000m straight of water. The football, too, because London doesn't have a dozen or so suitably sized stadia. But where they could put on things in the park or in the city, they have, and rightly so. Moving hundreds of media people, many miles outside of the city, not to mention thousands of spectators, just doesn't make any sense, if they can stage the finish within it.

 

[El Pistolero]

They are. The sailing's on the south coast and the rowing is out in Berkshire. These were necessary, as London isn't built on the sea and they couldn't find anywhere suitable within the city to build a 2000m straight of water. The football, too, because London doesn't have a dozen or so suitably sized stadia. But where they could put on things in the park or in the city, they have, and rightly so. Moving hundreds of media people, many miles outside of the city, not to mention thousands of spectators, just doesn't make any sense, if they can stage the finish within it.

Obviously the finish should be in London, but you can take the race to more selective parts of Britain as well and then finish in London. I'm no expert at the geography of Britain, but something can be done I'm sure of it. Of course not now anymore, but you know what I mean.

 

[The Hitch]

Do you have the numbers? A link?

I'd have thought that Paris had the most viewers.

Also, of course people watch the mountain stages in a GT, it's where the GC is usually decided. This isn't a GC and I think it's likely to get almost as many viewers whatever the parcours is.

The most important factor in whether viewers find something exciting, or not, is whether they care about the outcome.

In South Korea millions of people watched the figure skating because the biggest sports star in their country is that 19 year old who breaks records in that discipline.

If you told me the Tour de France was going to be decided by a coin toss i would start searching heads vs tails probabilities on the internet to predict the outcome (apparently its not 50 50 by the way)

Tell me f1 will be decided the sam way and i couldnt give a toss (about the toss).

I dont know who your friends were nor what biases they had so cant comment on that. Maybe for a lot of people sprints really are very exciting. They have their advantages too.

Still I do think mountain stages are seen as more exciting by the average fan. I remember the Eurosport commentary were saying 2009 was a crap Tour even though Cav (who they obviously cheer for) won 6 stages. Of course Zomegnan started putting monster stages at every turn because viewership in Italy was far bigger for the mountain ones than the sprint ones (though that could also be because Italians are pretty good at climbing)

I agree that the sprint for the olympics would be fascinating. People downplay it as 5 minutes of action but it is 5 minutes of real intense action ( 30 times as much as the 100m sprint for example). Still when it does end in a bunch sprint its often the case that the excitement before hand isnt that great and i would hope for excitement throughout.

Mambo is right about 5 man teams will find it difficult to control so hopefully there will be some excitement. Especially if other teams tell cav its his olympics he should do the work. And the 2 South european super teams (no Valverde unfortunately though) can make things difficult. Well see on the day. I wont mind too much if its a crap race though because ill be out on the course.

I'd get a few deck-chairs and set up on the ascent of Box-Hill. Less people and see more of the action.

yep. Hoping for some good crowds. Ill go by bike so might even try and make another location as the race goes out of london then back in by other route.

TT should be awesome too though. Watching Geelong tt there were plenty of places with no crowds. Ill try to put myself in one of those places. Hopefully a small hill somewhere.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

TT should be awesome too though.

What is the TT route, btw?

 

[Jamsque]

Try comparing these scales:http://www.gent-wevelgem.be/system/files/349/original/GW_2011_Parcours.pdf?1301061667

Similar distance, similar elevation differentials. And you clearly know very little of British summers if you think that there is no risk of wind echelons forming (not that they do at GW every year)

The point is that given the very similar parcours, that there is EVERY chance that the race can be animated to suit more than one rider or team.

No shut up because you see Mark Cavendish

 

[The Hitch]

What is the TT route, btw?

Regents park from what i remember.

Insert "who cares Canc will win" joke here.

Edit Wrong. Maybe it was moved. Looks like Hampton Court now.

 

[El Pistolero]

Try comparing these scales:http://www.gent-wevelgem.be/system/files/349/original/GW_2011_Parcours.pdf?1301061667

Similar distance, similar elevation differentials. And you clearly know very little of British summers if you think that there is no risk of wind echelons forming (not that they do at GW every year)

The point is that given the very similar parcours, that there is EVERY chance that the race can be animated to suit more than one rider or team.

Like I said, G-W changes a lot and has cobbles to force the selection. And echelons in a city? I doubt it very much.

And G-W was always going to feature only sprinters this year given its boring profile.

1. Tom Boonen
2. Farrar
3. I don't know

Cav would have won if he didn't get stuck behind a crash. And he wasn't even in decent shape back then. G-W wasn't animating, it was a borefest.

 

[roundabout]

It will a need a reincarnation of the Telekom triplets to stop Cavendish from winning.

 

[LugHugger]

Like I said, G-W changes a lot and has cobbles to force the selection. And echelons in a city? I doubt it very much.

And G-W was always going to feature only sprinters this year given its boring profile.

1. Tom Boonen
2. Farrar
3. I don't know

Cav would have won if he didn't get stuck behind a crash. And he wasn't even in decent shape back then. G-W wasn't animating, it was a borefest.

Have you even looked at the course? The course leaves the city and is mostly held on semi-rural roads in Surrey between the 50-200km distances. It is certainly mostly rural and therefore potentially exposed to wind.

Yes, GW has cobbles and that does assist in making the selection but again, no climber has won GW in my recent memory. Why? Because the geography and parcours prohibits. Complaining that a climber can not win the London Road Race is stating the bleeding obvious. In a 250km race, only Toys Hill and Leith Hill offer a higher elevation gain than Box Hill within 50km of the start line as the crow flies.

For reasons only know to themselves but I assume have to do with road closures in a heavily populated and already congested area of the UK, the organisers chose not to include the previous climbs or Ide Hill, The Wall or Ditchling Beacon in the parcours.

However, the route offers the opportunity to be selective and for the race to be open to any team with a sprinter/rouleur to win should they wish to animate the race that way. Sure, Cav will probably win if the other teams sit back and let it come down to a bunch sprint. That's their fault and not the courses.

 

[Ferminal]

It will a need a reincarnation of the Telekom triplets to stop Cavendish from winning.

Im up for that...

 

[42x16ss]

I have a few questions for El Pistrollero:

1. Who was 1st 2nd and 3rd at the 2000 Olympics Road Race in Sydney?

2. What was the profile of the course?

3. What were the time gaps between the medal winners?

4. How many people still watched?

Find the answers to these questions and then decide if the Olympic RR has no hope.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

This course is a disgrace. They might as well chop the length down to five kilometers and call it a day.

 

[42x16ss]

This course is a disgrace. They might as well chop the length down to five kilometers and call it a day.

You can answer my questions as well Damiano. It's the Olympics FFS! Someone will take responsibility for the race and make it interesting.

 

[Caledon]

Go troll somewhere else.

Hey, you are a funny guy.

Disagreeing with El P = Trolling.

Quoting potty mouth Gordon Ramsay - weak end for quite a well argued essay too.

And for the record, I'm not someone who thinks Cav is nailed on to win the Olympic road race. Probably a sprinter - but I have a feeling British sporting failure may strike at the Games.

 

[42x16ss]

Hey, you are a funny guy.

Disagreeing with El P = Trolling.

Quoting potty mouth Gordon Ramsay - weak end for quite a well argued essay too.

And for the record, I'm not someone who thinks Cav is nailed on to win the Olympic road race. Probably a sprinter - but I have a feeling British sporting failure may strike at the Games.

El Pistolero is usually good for a laugh

But honestly, if Ulle and Vino can outsmart the peloton attacking on a pancake flat course very similar to the one in London I'm confident it can and will be done again. Someone will step up to the plate.

A bunch sprint was a "forgone conclusion" in Sydney yet the entire peloton finished over a minute back.

And if using facts is trolling, well, then I guess I'm a troll

 

[Hawkwood]

I thought that the IOC considered the Beijing course was a bit of a disaster with very few spectators. There have been four Tour de France stages in south-east England and all of them have had enormous crowds, and this includes the one into Canterbury that ended in a bunch sprint. I'm guessing that once the organisers dialled in a London start/finish, avoided major centres of congestion, factored in the advice of the Police, chose a route with scenery, and included a circuit to allow spectors to see the riders on multiple occasions that the final route is the one that delivers.

 

[L'arriviste]

I thought that the IOC considered the Beijing course was a bit of a disaster with very few spectators. There have been four Tour de France stages in south-east England and all of them have had enormous crowds, and this includes the one into Canterbury that ended in a bunch sprint. I'm guessing that once the organisers dialled in a London start/finish, avoided major centres of congestion, factored in the advice of the Police, chose a route with scenery, and included a circuit to allow spectors to see the riders on multiple occasions that the final route is the one that delivers.

Indeed this sounds about right. Design by committee has no need of imagination.

I once visited the location of the finish near Beijing, a good few years before it was part of the 2008 plan, just to see the Great Wall at Juyongguan: it's pretty wild and empty (and intensely beautiful) out there.

I wouldn't presume to guess at conditions today but certainly in the recent past, the movement of people was strictly controlled. For fairly obvious reasons, the authorities used to try to avoid sizeable, unorchestrated gatherings of people.

Even if that situation has probably relaxed a lot (even then, I recall that I could find US cigarettes on the black market) in the years since that time, a special event like the Olympics would surely have been subject to tight controls, which might suggest a possible reason for the lack of crowds along the route. Those that were there may well have been organised, if celebration is still the civic obligation it once was.

Thankfully, the socio-politico-demographic implications (sic) of running a cycle race do not apply to rural Surrey.

 

[Hawkwood]

Indeed this sounds about right. Design by committee has no need of imagination.

I once visited the location of the finish near Beijing, a good few years before it was part of the 2008 plan, just to see the Great Wall at Juyongguan: it's pretty wild and empty (and intensely beautiful) out there.

I wouldn't presume to guess at conditions today but certainly in the recent past, the movement of people was strictly controlled. For fairly obvious reasons, the authorities used to try to avoid sizeable, unorchestrated gatherings of people.

Even if that situation has probably relaxed a lot (even then, I recall that I could find US cigarettes on the black market) in the years since that time, a special event like the Olympics would surely have been subject to tight controls, which might suggest a possible reason for the lack of crowds along the route. Those that were there may well have been organised, if celebration is still the civic obligation it once was.

Thankfully, the socio-politico-demographic implications (sic) of running a cycle race do not apply to rural Surrey.

No but Surrey suffers from the wealthy classes with big cars who don't want their roads jammed up by cyclists!