Olympics 2020 (2021): Harder to dope in Japan?

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The big Italian 100m sprinter came from nowhere, so much so that the guy who finished second claimed that he knew little about him. Then you check and find out that he was a former long jumper who went under 10 seconds for the first time only a few months ago. Then you have one of Salazar's graduates, Hassan, attempting to win the womens 1,500m, 5K & 10k races which is a fairly unthinkable schedule. It's almost comical to listen to the commentators drooling over some of these athletes.
As someone who doesn't follow athletics, I had heard of Jacobs and in Italy there had been hopes of a medal.
 
No, the point is state-sponsored doping and coverups.

I won't -- and can't -- defend the integrity of any individual athlete, but I doubt the US government is aiding an abetting a coverup that extends to the highest levels of government agencies/ministers.

Regarding Jacobs, hm, that's hard, but I'll cut him a little slack. He's a recent convert to 100 meters, maybe it's a case of Dafhe Schippers where the talent was there but in the wrong event.

The Chinese 100 meter guy, on the other hand...a big Asian best at age 31...but the 100 meters is one of those events where you just have to assume that everyone's dirty, given the history...
why ?
 





 
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Meanwhile Norway’s Karsten Warholm has just obliterated his own world record in the 400 metres hurdles by 0.76 seconds :astonished:.

The new world record stands at an astonishing 45.94.

New new carbon-technology shoes or something else? I remember when we all oohed and aahed when Edwin Moses was running 47 seconds!
And the fact that the top 3 all went under Kevin Young's old record that had stood for 30 years means there's probably been a quantum leap in something here. Either the spikes or some new PED's.

The Brazilian guy that finished 3rd has lowered his PB from 48.28s to 46.72s just in 2021 alone, and he's only 21. At this rate he will soon also threaten sub-46.

Crazy race.
 
Am not going to take the troll bait, but while you can criticize the US government for almost anything under the sun, including human rights abuses, spying on friends and enemies, starting gratuitous wars etc, it does not get involved in sports at either the pro or amateur level. The USOC is ridiculously underfunded compared with many other countries' efforts.
 
Am not going to take the troll bait, but while you can criticize the US government for almost anything under the sun, including human rights abuses, spying on friends and enemies, starting gratuitous wars etc, it does not get involved in sports at either the pro or amateur level. The USOC is ridiculously underfunded compared with many other countries' efforts.
I am going to call BS on this one, actually I would bet quite a large amount there was a state doping program when there were games in US, we can start with 1984 LA games
 
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The 400m hurdles was absolutely nuclear lmao. Will be interesting to see how fast the 400 flat goes.

I don't really get the state sponsored doping fuss. You don't need to be state sponsored if the mighty gods of capitalism fund your training camps and programs. Everyone who visits this forum should know the end result is the same.
 
The 400m hurdles was absolutely nuclear lmao. Will be interesting to see how fast the 400 flat goes.

I don't really get the state sponsored doping fuss. You don't need to be state sponsored if the mighty gods of capitalism fund your training camps and programs. Everyone who visits this forum should know the end result is the same.
State sponsored doping sounds more sinister. I used the term myself in 2012. It's more controversial for a government to be implicated in the bastardisation of sport than it is for a capitalist company that everybody accepts is ruthless and cutthroat.
 
I am going to call BS on this one, actually I would bet quite a large amount there was a state doping program when there were games in US, we can start with 1984 LA games
Why are you so certain? At the 1984 games the Soviet Union and East Germany state sponsored doping machines didn’t compete. America is obsessed with Baseball, American Football and Basketball. The Olympics is big but a once every 4 years side show.
 
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The 400m hurdles was absolutely nuclear lmao. Will be interesting to see how fast the 400 flat goes.

I don't really get the state sponsored doping fuss. You don't need to be state sponsored if the mighty gods of capitalism fund your training camps and programs. Everyone who visits this forum should know the end result is the same.
Gardiner ran close to 44 and he looked like he had a couple gears left to shift into. James and Zambrano already went under 44 in the semi. The depth of quality in this final is really something even without van Niekerk. I would love to see someone break 43. A feat a lot more likely after the hurdles.
She has elevated natural testosterone levels. Wasn't allowed to compete in the 100m dash for that reason, but apparently it was no problem in the 200m...
She has a very bizarre way of running the 200m. Her kick in the last 50m is crazy. It is my understanding that you can compete in the 100m and 200m, but not the 400, 800, or 1500m. She was a big medal favorite for the 400m before she had to withdraw due to the testosterone rule.
 
Yes that's the rule and it makes no sense.
Either she can run every distance or none of them.
The explanation I understood was that the parameters were set based on them having enough data to make a conclusion re: the 400, 800, and 1500, but not enough data to include the 100 & 200 (yet). But I’m still trying to find a good source on that. Of course, we can surmise from the E. German medical studies about how well girls responded (performance wise) to large dollops of T, that a large amount of additional T will assist performance in virtually every event. Though I don’t know that there have been substantial studies on whether a naturally (endogenous?) high T level in women does the same for performance as T introduced to the system?
 
I think it has to do with the sex difference being the greatest at the middle distances.

I too think that it should be that either you belong in the women's protected category or you don't.
That is pretty clearly true. If you want to know how valuable testosterone is in the 800m and 1500m, look how long the WRs from the 80s stood. The women's 800m record from 1983 is almost untouchable. Of the top 10 times ever run, only 3 are post 2000 and one of those is from Semenya. Only 5 of the top 20 are post 2000 if you go further. The 1500m WR from 1980 stood until 2015 (if you exclude a pretty obviously doped to the gills Chinese runner). ETA. Should've mentioned that the 400m world record dates back to 1985 too.

Waiting for Bullsfan to claim the Eastern bloc women of that era were not doped with testosterone.
 
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That is pretty clearly true. If you want to know how valuable testosterone is in the 800m and 1500m, look how long the WRs from the 80s stood. The women's 800m record from 1983 is almost untouchable. Of the top 10 times ever run, only 3 are post 2000 and one of those is from Semenya. Only 5 of the top 20 are post 2000 if you go further. The 1500m WR from 1980 stood until 2015 (if you exclude a pretty obviously doped to the gills Chinese runner).

Waiting for Bullsfan to claim the Eastern bloc women of that era were not doped with testosterone.
Marita Koch’s WR in the 400 may be equally unassailable. And FloJo’s 100 & 200 WRs are also from the 80s.
 
That is pretty clearly true. If you want to know how valuable testosterone is in the 800m and 1500m, look how long the WRs from the 80s stood. The women's 800m record from 1983 is almost untouchable. Of the top 10 times ever run, only 3 are post 2000 and one of those is from Semenya. Only 5 of the top 20 are post 2000 if you go further. The 1500m WR from 1980 stood until 2015 (if you exclude a pretty obviously doped to the gills Chinese runner). ETA. Should've mentioned that the 400m world record dates back to 1985 too.
To this day (or at least last I heard) Kratochvilova still maintains she never doped, her success was due to hard training and high Vitamin B-12 doses. If she would at least allow for the possibility that she had been unknowingly doped by her coaches (like other Eastern Bloc athletes back then) I would be much more forgiving. But she's demonstrated such pigheadedness that to me she is just a sad joke.

Then:


Now (obviously much older, but at least here she looks like a woman):
 

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