Omega Pharma-Lotto bombshell?

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Aug 2, 2010
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Franklin said:
I'm so glad that courts will look for irrefutable evidence instead of this mob justice.

Innocent until proven guilty is a good thing.

It's painful to see so many civilized people wanting to get rid of it just over something trivial as a sport.
you are obviously right.

however, if you just like us are following this sport, you know who dopes and who doesn't (no you don't, they have 0 publicity). what i don't like and condemn is hypocrisy. for example, i am an huge contador fan. do i believe he is clean?no. do I believe that he is telling the truth about clean? yes. he isn't an actor.. after saw the interviews etc, the way that he was caught, i believe in him. otherwise, he should been banned forever.

i don't agree with banning someone because of microdosing, c'mon... who is the winner since the juniors till the veterans that doesn't dope? ban the heavy dopers (ricco and others alike) or those that are using it that makes competition unfair.

gilbert is worse, just like merckx and LA... he lies to us, he fakes everything... he is fake.
 
May 26, 2009
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c&cfan said:
you know who dopes and who doesn't (no you don't, they have 0 publicity).
I suspect every rider. My gut says that there are no monument or GT contenders riding clean.

But nobody knows for sure.

Maybe Gilbert is truthful and clean... I would be utterly shocked and amazed. But there is no solid evidence besides his rather worrisome palmares.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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c&cfan said:
you are obviously right.

however, if you just like us are following this sport, you know who dopes and who doesn't (no you don't, they have 0 publicity). what i don't like and condemn is hypocrisy. for example, i am an huge contador fan. do i believe he is clean?no. do I believe that he is telling the truth about clean? yes. he isn't an actor.. after saw the interviews etc, the way that he was caught, i believe in him. otherwise, he should been banned forever.

i don't agree with banning someone because of microdosing, c'mon... who is the winner since the juniors till the veterans that doesn't dope? ban the heavy dopers (ricco and others alike) or those that are using it that makes competition unfair.

gilbert is worse, just like merckx and LA... he lies to us, he fakes everything... he is fake.
Your comments make your argument pointless.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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tifosa said:
Who better than a former lanterne rouge to be a drug mule?

Must have made complete sense to his team - I mean why look there?
Great marketing angle as well, he's see every rider in the whole peleton! No wonder he needed so much!
 
Aug 2, 2010
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JMBeaushrimp said:
Your comments make your argument pointless.
yes, i believe that i made a mistake.

what i was trying to say is that a consider someone that is microdosing as a normal athlete. then you have guys that have since young been against doping, always talking about how the others are lesser people and how they work so much. however some of them turn out to be the ones with most benefit from doping because they aren't being "fair".--those (merckx LA Gilbert etc) are the worse kind of cheaters.

for example.. while contador was microdosing(at least i believe that but obviously i can be wrong), ricco was fuelling himself with cera until his body gave up. ricco should be banned forever, but contador shouldn't be banned at all (if he microdoses only, just like the others).

gilbert is an amazing cyclist and did things that entertained me a lot, but he is the worst kind of liar, he's been lying in the worst possible way since his first interview. another era and he woulb be winning GTs sprints and all classics.

that's why i hope that he is banned and that i believe that riders that are only playing it fair because they have to (contador) and because of that they win when they deserve it, shouldn't be banned. cyclists have to dope. we have to lie. our world isn't perfect.
 
c&cfan said:
yes, i believe that i made a mistake.

what i was trying to say is that a consider someone that is microdosing as a normal athlete. then you have guys that have since young been against doping, always talking about how the others are lesser people and how they work so much. however some of them turn out to be the ones with most benefit from doping because they aren't being "fair".--those (merckx LA Gilbert etc) are the worse kind of cheaters.

for example.. while contador was microdosing(at least i believe that but obviously i can be wrong), ricco was fuelling himself with cera until his body gave up. ricco should be banned forever, but contador shouldn't be banned at all (if he microdoses only, just like the others).

gilbert is an amazing cyclist and did things that entertained me a lot, but he is the worst kind of liar, he's been lying in the worst possible way since his first interview. another era and he woulb be winning GTs sprints and all classics.

that's why i hope that he is banned and that i believe that riders that are only playing it fair because they have to (contador) and because of that they win when they deserve it, shouldn't be banned. cyclists have to dope. we have to lie. our world isn't perfect.

Ah, the old "guilty until proven innocent". I say we throw them in the water and see if they stay afloat!
 
Aug 2, 2010
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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Ah, the old "guilty until proven innocent". I say we throw them in the water and see if they stay afloat!
that's what WADA says in case you didn't know.
but please.. think with your brain.

juniors are busted because they already dope.
amateurs are busted because they dope.
veterans are busted because they still dope.

now consider the history of this sport,
dope was well known since the beginning of it and anybody that won something was known to use PEDs.

coppi came (also bartali) and guess what...
anquetil even said that in the riders' head it was unthinkable to ride without PEDs.
merckx busted...
hinault, guess what...
etc etc until today.

after saying this(FACTS, EVIDENCE), your options:
a) .... Edited by Admin...
 
while contador was microdosing(at least i believe that but obviously i can be wrong), ricco was fuelling himself with cera until his body gave up. ricco should be banned forever, but contador shouldn't be banned at all (if he microdoses only, just like the others).
There is no evidence whatsoever that Ricco has used EPO more frequently or in larger doses than Bert or anyone else in the peloton. If his health problem was caused by doping—which still is not at all certain—it was from a blood transfusion, not from excessive use of CERA. And not because he transfused more blood or more often than anyone else, but because he stored it improperly. Ricco may be dumber than other riders, and he may have a very unpopular personality, but there is no evidence that he has done anything that the others aren’t doing. I think you're being very unfair to single him, or any other rider, out from others, claiming that they dope more and therefore deserve a lifetime ban, while others are simply micro-dosing to keep up.

You are aware, I hope, that in Bert’s pending case, the only alternative to contaminated meat—for which there is no evidence at all—is a blood transfusion. If CAS suspends him, regardless of what the language of the decision says, it will not be because of micro-dosing, but because he was exposed to CB from a blood transfusion. The very same procedure that allegedly put Ricco in the hospital.

To quote a recent post here:

please.. think with your brain
 
Aug 2, 2010
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Merckx index said:
There is no evidence whatsoever that Ricco has used EPO more frequently or in larger doses than Bert or anyone else in the peloton. If his health problem was caused by doping—which still is not at all certain—it was from a blood transfusion, not from excessive use of CERA. And not because he transfused more blood or more often than anyone else, but because he stored it improperly. Ricco may be dumber than other riders, and he may have a very unpopular personality, but there is no evidence that he has done anything that the others aren’t doing. I think you're being very unfair to single him, or any other rider, out from others, claiming that they dope more and therefore deserve a lifetime ban, while others are simply micro-dosing to keep up.

You are aware, I hope, that in Bert’s pending case, the only alternative to contaminated meat—for which there is no evidence at all—is a blood transfusion. If CAS suspends him, regardless of what the language of the decision says, it will not be because of micro-dosing, but because he was exposed to CB from a blood transfusion. The very same procedure that allegedly put Ricco in the hospital.

To quote a recent post here:
yes.. you are right regarding contador. there's no doubt about it. that's why i said why i believed in him and what i wish for him if i am wrong.

regarding ricco, i put him in the same category as di lucca for example.
they doped..they were caught.. everyone knew that they would dope again.. they did.
if he was just trying to keep up, just like the others, it's wrong to ban anyone.

unless you (not you but the ones that are applying the rules) are hypocrite.

that's my opinion.
 
Jan 30, 2011
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c&cfan said:
that's what WADA says in case you didn't know.
but please.. think with your brain.
You might want to reconsider what you wrote and think on it a little longer. You might realise that you are wrong.
 
Aug 2, 2010
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peterst6906 said:
You might want to reconsider what you wrote and think on it a little longer. You might realise that you are wrong.
if you have a positive you are guilty until proven innocent. thats wada's code.
 
Jan 30, 2011
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c&cfan said:
if you have a positive you are guilty until proven innocent. thats wada's code.
Exactly. Evidence of doping in the form of a positive is required before guilt is applied.

Gilbert doesn't have a positive, but you've already decided he's a liar and guilty of doping and trying to say that's the same as the WADA approach.

Think on it a little longer. You'll eventually figure it out.
 
Aug 2, 2010
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peterst6906 said:
Exactly. Evidence of doping in the form of a positive is required before guilt is applied.

Gilbert doesn't have a positive, but you've already decided he's a liar and guilty of doping and trying to say that's the same as the WADA approach.

Think on it a little longer. You'll eventually figure it out.
maybe you need to read my last couple of posts to try and understand the reasons and FACTS that i said earlier.

obviously he is a liar.

they dont need evidence of doping. they only need an hypothesis of doping.
 
Opl

It's painful to watch Gilbert blow away the competition like he has the past few months. There is no doubt in my mind that he uses illegal substances along with his TDF roommate Vanendert.

However, I'd like to point out that criticism in Belgium towards OPL exists. A major weekly magazine published an article on TB500 on July 5 and suggested that Gilberts new haircolor could have something to do with concealing traces of doping.

I'm Belgian and I can't conceive how someone can still believe that those OPL guys are clean. The way Gilbert dominated the first two weeks of TDF was absurd. He won one stage, but was the best rider in the race in two or three other stages. It's worse than Ricco. I don't know whether the entire team uses the stuff, but I wouldn't rule it out.

However, innocent until proven guilty...
 
GuntherL said:
It's painful to watch Gilbert blow away the competition like he has the past few months. There is no doubt in my mind that he uses illegal substances along with his TDF roommate Vanendert.

However, I'd like to point out that criticism in Belgium towards OPL exists. A major weekly magazine published an article on TB500 on July 5 and suggested that Gilberts new haircolor could have something to do with concealing traces of doping.

I'm Belgian and I can't conceive how someone can still believe that those OPL guys are clean. The way Gilbert dominated the first two weeks of TDF was absurd. He won one stage, but was the best rider in the race in two or three other stages. It's worse than Ricco. I don't know whether the entire team uses the stuff, but I wouldn't rule it out.

However, innocent until proven guilty...
So you are sure Vanendert is doped? Because his performance was so great? Or was it that the others weren't so great? Maybe they for once aren't doped? Vanendert's climb wasn't anything out of this world. In fact, i would like to see the times of the likes of Kurt Van de Wauwer back in the day and see how much better Vanendert really climbed. He has the same built as Andy Schleck, he has proven to have a big engine, i would be careful jumping to conclusions.

I am also interested to know what kinds of doping bleached hair could conceal. I thought it worked for cocaine, but i have no idea what else. Also strange that if concealing was the objective, why he didn't just die his hair in his natural color afterwards. Also strange that he waited until AFTER he did his insane streak of wins, coincidentally after the weekend he won the Belgian Championship.

Furthermore it's no secret that both Gilbert and Vandenbroeck are both training maniacs. Also Lotto is funded by the same government that has taken one of the fiercest stands against doping of them all. I doubt it would be endorsed on a team level.

Innocent until proven guilty? Obviously not. If you really want to question some performances in the tour, maybe take a closer look at "natural climbers" like Hushovd (he learned from Gilbert he said), Voeckler, Rolland...

I'm not claiming they are all clean. I know as much as the next guy, but everybody is apparently hell bent on being the next Hercules Poirot, connecting dots where there are none to be connected.
 

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