Owners - are you happy about the appalling moderation?

[Race Radio]

I shall ignore the usual ad hominem attacks seen above that the clinic mob seem to think they are enttitled to post in defiance of the rules selectively enforced and that is the problem, That is more the subject of this thread than that incident you relate.

But I shall comment on the substance of your post race radio.
The IAAF don't agree with you. But then "clinic opinions" seem to trump facts here.

"Before the 181 members here for their annual Congress voted overwhelmingly to move the headquarters, the IAAF's general secretary, Istvan Gyulai, said Reynolds' legal action was "the most important reason" for resettling early next year in Monte Carlo.".

It was an open secret that all of us at some level in athletics management knew at the time, but Gyulai let slip: later to retract it , because apparently he was not supposed to say so in public, presumably because of loss of face.

UCI relocated to switzerland at much the same time. Jungle drums said legal insularity from the EU was part of the reason, tax and other issues other parts. It was announced as "to be near Lausanne" which is a far more "palatable" reason for the press, but then when did press releases ever explain reasons for anything? The reynolds affair had a profound impact on how International sports perceived the risk of being sued - and the procedures later put in place to mitigate the risk.

Ahhh, so your source is "Jungle drums".....got it

Funny how you left out this part

"If you conclude we're leaving because of Reynolds, I did not say that."

There were other reasons for the track and field governing body's flight from London after almost 50 years, foremost among them an offer of rent-free offices.

It also should be noted that the IAAF began considering the move long before Reynolds stepped inside a courtroom.

What does this have to do with cycling?

What did Butch do with millions he got from the IAAF? Oh wait, he lost.....never got a dime

 

[mountainrman]

Ahhh, so your source is "Jungle drums".....got it

Funny how you left out this part



What does this have to do with cycling?

What did Butch do with millions he got from the IAAF? Oh wait, he lost.....never got a dime

My quote proved you are wrong race radio. And as an insider in athletics, we knew what the truth was at the time. The affair so scared the sporting world it changed the perception of the risk of athletes bringing down an entire international organisation - and it made profound changes to how doping charges are brought and contested.

Anyway - this is not the place - raceradio.

I am asking the forum owners whether they are happy with the appalling moderation. Sadly sittingbisons facetious comment illustrates the problem here.

I have no intention of entering other arguments on doping until the clinic faithful are obliged to live by the forum rules, not given a free hand to abuse other posters - so flame away - I will not respond.

 

[Race Radio]

My quote proved you are wrong race radio. And as an insider in athletics, we knew what the truth was at the time. The affair so scared the sporting world it changed the perception of the risk of athletes bringing down an entire international organisation - and it made profound changes to how doping charges are brought and contested.

Anyway - this is not the place - raceradio.

I am asking the forum owners whether they are happy with the appalling moderation. Sadly sittingbisons facetious comment illustrates the problem here.

I have no intention of entering other arguments on doping until the clinic faithful are obliged to live by the forum rules, not given a free hand to abuse other posters - so flame away - I will not respond.

Your selective editing and continued obfuscation only serves to prove your ban was well deserved.

 

[mountainrman]

Your selective editing and continued obfuscation only serves to prove your ban was well deserved.

If you refuse to believe what the IAAF general secretary said the reason for moving , then clearly the truth does not interest you.

Receradio - please leave my thread.

You contribute nothing to the questions of why moderation decisions were taken, other than illingomed opinion on a matter not essential to the thread, and as such all that you post is off topic according to the rules..

My question was directed at moderators and owners, not the clinic faithful who are clearly a major part of the problem - and until it is solved and moderation is made equitable and impartical, the clinic will never have any relevance as a serious place to discuss doping in cycling.

 

[Scott SoCal]

If you refuse to believe what the IAAF general secretary said the reason for moving , then clearly the truth does not interest you.

Receradio - please leave my thread.

You contribute nothing to the questions of why moderation decisions were taken, other than illingomed opinion on a matter not essential to the thread, and as such all that you post is off topic according to the rules..

My question was directed at moderators and owners, not the clinic faithful who are clearly a major part of the problem - and until it is solved and moderation is made equitable and impartical, the clinic will never have any relevance as a serious place to discuss doping in cycling.

Just when one thinks they have seen everything....

If I were modding I'd ban you for making me laugh so hard.

 

[Race Radio]

illingomed opinion

This may be a word in your world but it has yet to arrive here on earth

 

[pedaling squares]

Receradio - please leave my thread.

Before he goes, maybe RR could explain what this thread is about. Does Butch Reynolds own CN? That's my best guess at deciphering this mountainr of nonsense.



sittingbison's comment was kind of funny. Nothing wrong with it IMO.

 

[mountainrman]

Before he goes, maybe RR could explain what this thread is about.

He clearly does not know, from the off topic illinformed posting.

sittingbison's comment was kind of funny. Nothing wrong with it IMO.

Not so. A moderator being facetious on a serious thread demonstrates only that he is ill suited to the role. But then - that is what the thread is about. Lamentably bad moderation.

 

[pedaling squares]

Ah, so Butch Reynolds is sittingbison. That makes more sense.

 

[Scott SoCal]

He clearly does not know, from the off topic illinformed posting.



Not so. A moderator being facetious on a serious thread demonstrates only that he is ill suited to the role. But then - that is what the thread is about. Lamentably bad moderation.

The good news??

No one forces you to swerve in here.

And I take issue with the highlighted. There is only one serious thread on this forum is it revolves around beer.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I am taking over this thread, it is now mine. Everyone please leave my thread.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Originally Posted by mountainrman
illingomed opinion

This may be a word in your world but it has yet to arrive here on earth

A gnome is kind of like a very small troll, I think. He obviously just spelled it wrong.

 

[Race Radio]

I am taking over this thread, it is now mine. Everyone please leave my thread.

No soup for you!

 

[Hugh Januss]

Actually I do agree with the folks who wrote that mods should not be posting smartazz comments in response to a complaint such as this. Whether valid or this complaint, it is really not a mods place. One more reason I would never want to be a mod. The right to leave smartazz comments totally trumps being able to ban someone IMO.

 

[Froome19]

Which is it?
oh and before we hear the mods should be more blah blah.... I think in this case it was an amusing retort to the yak.

I don't deny it was amusing. I personally found it rather amusing myself.

But "in my opinion" a mod should not have the discretion to mock a complaint made by a poster.

 

[Race Radio]

I don't deny it was amusing. I personally found it rather amusing myself.

But "in my opinion" a mod should not have the discretion to mock a complaint made by a poster.

Is it ok to mock a complaint made by a troll?

 

[BroDeal]

I don't deny it was amusing. I personally found it rather amusing myself.

But "in my opinion" a mod should not have the discretion to mock a complaint made by a poster.

Was it a complaint? It reads more like a meandering religious screed scribbled under a bare bulb in someone's cellar. Can someone give the Cliffs Notes version because all I got out of it was a bunch of ranting about everything from the mods to a shadowy Clinic cabal to a rehash of his usual defense of dopers.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Is it ok to mock a complaint made by a troll?

Oh now you went and got all technical on us.

 

[ElChingon]

Surprisingly no word from the owners yet.

 

[hiero2]

Yo. I'm top posting. For any traditionalists who actually have been around long enough to know what that means - shut it. In this case, I think it is appropriate.

Now, would ANYBODY on these forums call ME a poster with few words? Ok, let me clue you in on the results of that poll. Answer? No. 25 words or less is difficult in my world. 10 words or less is downright impossible.

So, that said, what SB said was WELL-CLUED to be humor (note the little smileys y'all.) And, right now, I'll apologize to mountainrman, but I found sittingbison's comment funny. Very funny. Not snarky. Snarky is mean, and intended to be passive/aggressive. Mountainrman - you and I share a tendency to go into detail - so I apologize, but I don't think a little humor in a thread spoils it. Rather, I think it offers leavening, something to allow the mix to ripen into something greater.

Other than that, like Amsterhammer, "I cannot speak to the substance of the issues that led to the three month ban". But, I also have to add that Alitogata (what does that name mean, anyway?) REALLY gets to the real reason for any moderation: "The little time I'm here I have seen a number of not very polite replies to my posts and some other rather agrressive, who attacked me as a person and not the content of my posts." This is exactly what we try to - hmmmmm, word? OH! Moderate! Yeah! This is exactly what we try to moderate. Anything that can be construed as an honest answer, and not just a slam, passes the bar, so to speak. It is not a perfect measure, but we are human, and not perfect either.

This IS a fractious bunch, our posters, as a group. Anybody that tries to deny THAT will have to go farther than Lance to prove his innocence.

Cheers, y'all!

I agree with Froome and ebandit that this snarky comment is in shockingly bad taste for a mod/admin to be posting to a member making a serious complaint about how he's been treated. I think at the very least Sittingbison should post an apology.

I cannot speak to the substance of the issues that led to the three month ban, but it is an undeniable fact that despite the theoretical right to freedom of speech and expression, this forum has been plagued by a clique of doping-obsessed Clinic bully boys who mock, insult, abuse, and ridicule voices that in any way dissent from the accepted, and expected, group think. Most of these posters have been here since close to the beginning of this forum, and have been continuously and repeatedly allowed to get away with posting behavior that would have long ago attracted permanent bans on any properly moderated forum.

This has been the sad state of affairs for years, and I'm not holding my breath that anything will change now.

just as well it wasn't a longer ban...would have exceeded the word count limit

IMHO moderators must do what their "title" says that they do.. Moderate discassions, not members. This doesn't include judging members opinions, ban people for not having the mainstream opinion, ban people for disagreeing, for their intentions and not their actions. A moderator can't act or react like a governess who will panish noghty children. S/he have to take care if the discussions run seamlessly and allow people express every opinion.

The little time I'm here I have seen a number of not very polite replies to my posts and some other rather agrressive, who attacked me as a person and not the content of my posts. This shows bad moderation because allowing some members being rude to other members, discourages obviously new members join the forum discassions. The opinion of each and every member of this forum must be respected, and the mods have to take care that no one will feel unconfortable to express his or her opinion no matter what this is.

I don't know if this is the case of the OP as well, but I think that it would be better to reconsider the moderation on the basis that you have to deal with people, and not just nicknames, and that the concept is to have nice topics with a lot of different opinions and points of view.

Did you just write that "all opinions should be welcome" and the same time saying "sad that a mod would respond to a members grievance in such a way
but it's the way of the forum".

Which is it?
oh and before we hear the mods should be more blah blah.... I think in this case it was an amusing retort to the yak.

sir i bow to your unparalelled 'cleverness'

any opinion on cycling topics are valid

opinion belittling a member / their post might be out of order

Mark L

Actually I do agree with the folks who wrote that mods should not be posting smartazz comments in response to a complaint such as this. Whether valid or this complaint, it is really not a mods place. One more reason I would never want to be a mod. The right to leave smartazz comments totally trumps being able to ban someone IMO.

 

[Ferminal]

Surprisingly no word from the owners yet.

Wins thread

 

[sittingbison]

I wholeheartedly and sincerely apologise for jesting with brodeals joke

 

[Ripper]

If you refuse to believe what the IAAF general secretary said the reason for moving , then clearly the truth does not interest you.

Receradio - please leave my thread.

You contribute nothing to the questions of why moderation decisions were taken, other than illingomed opinion on a matter not essential to the thread, and as such all that you post is off topic according to the rules..

My question was directed at moderators and owners, not the clinic faithful who are clearly a major part of the problem - and until it is solved and moderation is made equitable and impartical, the clinic will never have any relevance as a serious place to discuss doping in cycling.

I was somehow drawn to this thread and have read through the posts.

This part made me chuckle.

Quite hard!

 

[mountainrman]

I wholeheartedly and sincerely apologise for jesting with brodeals joke

But it was not a joke on his part Bison, and that is the problem.

A joke is when they are laughing with you, not laughing at you with ridicule ( the two are easily distinguished) the latter clearly against forum rules.

It is a cold and calculated standard modus operandi of flaming by the clinic mob - to aim ridicule and sarcasm and accusations of trolling at any who present views that the mob do not like, in the hope of inflaming the poster to respond so that BroDeal and his kinsmen can push the "report" button and hopefully get the poster infracted, which they succeed on a regular basis. Airstream airs the problem in detail on another thread.

On every other forum "trolling" means posting in a way that is intended to inflame or likely to inflame, or using abusive, sarcastic or ridiculing posting that, ie the above.

On this forum it means posting any view the mob does not like however reasonable. So the mob call the poster a "troll" (and by the way that action in itself would warrant infraction on all other serious forums) in the hope that mud sticks, and it does.

It is impossible to construe my original grievances as other than presumption of guilt - the infractions simply were not warranted ( 3 months for something I did not do!!!) - and that presumption of guilt comes from the incessant accusations of trolling levelled by the clinic mob, instances of it visible in both BroDeals and RaceRadios posts above. Go back over my posts and you will see that they are views on the subject matter wherther or not you agree with them- unlike the mob who attack ad hominem - either directly or by sarcasm, or accusations of trolling all visible in the posts above. None of that would be acceptable on any other forum I know.

So for a mod to join in what seems on the surface to be humour in bad taste, is actually calculated trolling and flaming by a section of the clinic mob is not acceptable. They hope I will respond in kind, with an emotive response in the hope that they can get me infracted. They are out of luck
As it is they have simply destroyed this serious thread with off topic,ridiculing, sarcastic and ad hominem posting - all against forum rules. All intended to inflame.

Airstream was spot on with his comments on the member suspension thread. I suggest you read them. It is a shame that the forum owners care so little for the place, that they allow it to be overrun by a mob.

So please do not join in with them.

I will accept your apology as sincere if you make a clear statement to RaceRadio, BroDeal and others on this thread that henceforth ridiculing, sarcastic, abusive, off topic , and ad hominem posting ( and other forms of trolling - including accusing any other poster of being a troll) as they do above will no longer be accepted from them, and then follow through with that. But I won't hold my breath.

The problem is so endemic, the mob think they own the place and are immune, so many have made the same remarks and nothing has been done about it ( take airstream and others before him) , that I do not expect that it will change any time soon. I was interested to hear the owners view on why they allow this to happen, destroying the forum in the process, and that was the purpose of the thread.

 

[BroDeal]

It is a cold and calculated standard modus operandi of flaming by the clinic mob - to aim ridicule and sarcasm and accusations of trolling at any who present views that the mob do not like, in the hope of inflaming the poster to respond so that BroDeal and his kinsmen can push the "report" button and hopefully get the poster infracted, which they succeed on a regular basis. Airstream airs the problem in detail on another thread.

You must have me mixed up with one of your skydiots. I don't report posts.