Paris-Nice Stage 6: Rognes - Aix-en-Provence (ITT) 27km

[Cobblestoned]

On a parcours that doesn't give them any real opportunities to gain time, it's no surprise we didn't see much from them.

As I said before, you need to find a compromise. If you're putting in 25-30km of TT, then you could do with some more challenging mountains to balance it out.

Yes, there are too few TT kms in the Grand Tours this year. But that doesn't mean we should overcompensate by turning all the great short stage races into the 2009 Tour de Suisse.

I know you can discuss till end of days, but perhaps you should read my entire post again. Because the answers are there too.

I think we both have one good opinion about that TdS. That was a real issue.
But to compare that to this P-N would be exaggerated.
Even Cancellara can not win this edition, because he can't climb as good as Panzerwagen, Klöden, etc. and never will.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

I'm a bit surprised at grudging acknowledgement for Martin's achievements in this race. In stage 5, Martin made the elite group and then took some huge turns at the front to make sure it stayed away, including leading out the sprint so that they didn't lose their advantage playing silly ******s.

Then on Stage 6 he wins the TT. How is he not a worthy leader? There seems to be this sense that only climbing should decide the winner. Martin has proved he's a good climber a great descender and a brilliant TTer. It's good to see all disciplines in play, unlike at this year's 3 GTs.

Also, I thought last year's Paris Nice was disappointing and nowhere near as good as this one which has produced a different and interesting stage every day, near enough.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Well I think that it is to be expected by a ProTour team to actually send a somewhat competitive team to Paris-Nice.

Well I think Morabito, Moinard, Santaromita and Bookwalter are all quality riders.

Cedric was reffering to there peformance not the lineup.

Did anyone really expect them to win a stage?

 

[Cobblestoned]

Yes, but in a REAL MTF, then the climbers can make even a small attack near the top and gather just a few seconds and maybe bonus seconds - only a few but it's enough to give them a chance of defending if they pull out a good TT. Likewise, the likes of Martin are clearly on good form, and they wouldn't have put minutes into him, but they could have perhaps taken 10-15 seconds with a late attack if it took his diesel power some time to heat up (think like Schleck on Morzine). Add the bonus seconds and you have something you can defend. But even with just 9km to the finish, is it worth attacking in the final 1-200m of the climb when the group will pull you back?

Yes, Martin may still have taken over a minute in the ITT, but then his advantage may have seemed a bit more fragile.

Tomorrow's stage is a 2009 Tour level unfunny joke, with about 60km from the mountains to the finish. Bunch sprint likely.

Again, read my post again. You start repeating, what I already answered in my long post above.

Which climbers do you mean. Those who were behind Klödengroup even yesterday ?

 

[Cobblestoned]

I'm a bit surprised at grudging acknowledgement for Martin's achievements in this race. In stage 5, Martin made the elite group and then took some huge turns at the front to make sure it stayed away, including leading out the sprint so that they didn't lose their advantage playing silly ******s.

Then on Stage 6 he wins the TT. How is he not a worthy leader? There seems to be this sense that only climbing should decide the winner. Martin has proved he's a good climber a great descender and a brilliant TTer. It's good to see all disciplines in play, unlike at this year's 3 GTs.

Also, I thought last year's Paris Nice was disappointing and nowhere near as good as this one which has produced a different and interesting stage every day, near enough.

+1

Just to add that the race is even over for some huffies, congratulating Tony for winning P-N, when there are 2 more stages to go and that one on Sunday is usually carnage.
I saw more exciting P-N editions of course. But this depends on many, many factors - not just mountains or TT.

I think some people just miss their loved rider, or their loved rider is out of shape.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Again, read my post again. You start repeating, what I already answered in my long post above.

Which climbers do you mean. Those who were behind Klödengroup even yesterday ?

Klödi is an all-rounder. There were people like Tondó, Samu and Taaramäe in the front group yesterday.

+1

Just to add that the race is even over for some huffies, congratulating Tony for winning P-N, when there are 2 more stages to go and that one on Sunday is usually carnage.
I saw more exciting P-N editions of course. But this depends on many, many factors - not just mountains or TT.

I think some people just miss their loved rider, or their loved rider is out of shape.

Or they just don't like to see races that have been exciting from start to finish for the last few years be reduced to a not-especially-selective single mountain where people didn't finish individually but in sizeable groups and a TT, with the prospect of a pathetic waste of a stage to come before the traditional finish into Nice which usually features plenty of attacking but not much in the way of real time gaps.

If Tony Martin doesn't win this race easily from here on in, it's cos he did something as stupid as Contador in 2009.

You used the 2009 Tour de Suisse as an example of a race that was TRULY awful, clearly engineered so that the TT would be decisive. And even THAT race had two MTFs (Serfaus and Crans-Montana). Admittedly pretty uninspiring ones - but they weren't too dissimilar to yesterday's stage, with groups of 10 or so coming in together to contest the sprint. No, Paris-Nice 2011 hasn't been as dreadful as that race was - but that's almost solely because of the efforts of Thomas de Gendt in the first half of the race. Paris-Nice is usually one of the races we can trust, that normally gives us some of the most exciting racing of the season. In that respect, it is a colossal letdown, and it's not the riders' fault; they've just been given one of the least inspiring parcours in living memory to deal with.

 

[Winterfold]

Have you watched Paris-Nice 2007, 2009 and 2010?

I was referring to stage racing in general rather than P-N specifically.

I admit I am a tester/rouleur and lack objectivity but races are becoming too short in ITT km - there is no hiding behind super-domestiques in ITT

 

[Lanark]

Disagree.

Prologue was close and good.
Jens taking the jersey was good.
Stage Tondo won was amazing.
Stage to Mende with COntador beating Purito was great
Stage Pit lls combo tried to separate Contador was great too.

What was that about peter something

Sounds like an average edition of Paris-Nice to me. Prologue is usually close, Jens has been the leader in the past, Tondo stage was about as exciting as the De Ghent/Voeckler stage this year, Mende is nice, but it's basically waiting a whole day for 15 minutes of excitement, on a climb were tactics play no role, it's just waiting to see who is the best. It was better than this year, but not remarkable otherwise (Paris-Nice is usually the best stage race after the Giro).

Compared to 2007, 2008 and (especially) 2009, that all saw a change in leadership after the race appeared to be decided, that was quite a pedestrian edition.

 

[El Pistolero]

Sounds like an average edition of Paris-Nice to me. Prologue is usually close, Jens has been the leader in the past, Tondo stage was about as exciting as the De Ghent/Voeckler stage this year, Mende is nice, but it's basically waiting a whole day for 15 minutes of excitement, on a climb were tactics play no role, it's just waiting to see who is the best. It was better than this year, but not remarkable otherwise (Paris-Nice is usually the best stage race after the Giro).

Compared to 2007, 2008 and (especially) 2009, that all saw a change in leadership after the race appeared to be decided, that was quite a pedestrian edition.

Contador crashing, Contador getting in the same group as Sagan and working really hard to make sure they stay in front of the peloton, contador killing them on Mende, etc.

Or in 2007 when Contador won the final stage and the GC by taking the bonus seconds.

Nothing has really happened this Paris-Nice except Thomas de Gendt.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Sounds like an average edition of Paris-Nice to me. Prologue is usually close, Jens has been the leader in the past, Tondo stage was about as exciting as the De Ghent/Voeckler stage this year, Mende is nice, but it's basically waiting a whole day for 15 minutes of excitement, on a climb were tactics play no role, it's just waiting to see who is the best. It was better than this year, but not remarkable otherwise (Paris-Nice is usually the best stage race after the Giro).

Compared to 2007, 2008 and (especially) 2009, that all saw a change in leadership after the race appeared to be decided, that was quite a pedestrian edition.

How about Caisse d'Epargne (Caisse d'Epargne!) forming echelons and seeing the yellow and polka dot jerseys working together to distance the péloton on the first, totally flat, stage?

As for Paris-Nice usually being the best stage race after the Giro... that's exactly why this race is getting dumped on. Because it's a race that's usually reliable for good excitement and close racing, and we've been served up an awful route that makes that unlikely.

 

[Lanark]

Contador crashing, Contador getting in the same group as Sagan and working really hard to make sure they stay in front of the peloton, contador killing them on Mende, etc.

Or in 2007 when Contador won the final stage and the GC by taking the bonus seconds.

Nothing has really happened this Paris-Nice except Thomas de Gendt.

If Contador crashing is one of the highlights of last years Paris-Nice, that says it all. It was a decent edition of Paris-Nice, but clearly one of the weaker of the last 10 years. This year is probably even worse, but that doesn't make the 2010 edition great.

2007 was fantastic like I already said.

 

[El Pistolero]

If Contador crashing is one of the highlights of last years Paris-Nice, that says it all. It was a decent edition of Paris-Nice, but clearly one of the weaker of the last 10 years. This year is probably even worse, but that doesn't make the 2010 edition great.

2007 was fantastic like I already said.

2010 definitely wasn't weak. Seeing someone crash and trying to get back in the front group always adds excitement. Especially when it's numero uno.

And Mende is always excitement. Sagan's wins were definitely more spectacular than De Gendt's wins.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Contador crashing, Contador getting in the same group as Sagan and working really hard to make sure they stay in front of the peloton, contador killing them on Mende, etc.

Or in 2007 when Contador won the final stage and the GC by taking the bonus seconds.

Nothing has really happened this Paris-Nice except Thomas de Gendt.

People will also remember Peters crash, Klöden finishing off Samy, and Panzerwagen rolling the BIG gear through France in great style with wide open mouth and liquids coming out everywhere. More to come.

 

[El Pistolero]

People will also remember Peters crash, Klöden finishing off Samy, and Panzerwagen rolling the BIG gear through France in great style with wide open mouth and liquids coming out everywhere. More to come.

I bet people get excited when Tony Martin is in the front group of the queen stage.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I bet people get excited when Tony Martin is in the front group of the queen stage.

There we have the real problem. His name. Perhaps you should accept that he is in good shape and a good climber. Perhaps you should accept that each stage can be hard. Even tomorrow. If they rode up the Ventoux two times as queenstage, same guys would have been up there, because they are good climbers and are in shape.
He didn't crack anywhere so far, while other big names and climbers cracked more or less, and he even showed them all how to TT.
If he had cracked yesterday, the typical wahwahblabla would have been started. Always cracks in mountains, will never win something big, can only TT and do sprints for Cav, I knew it.....blabla
But hey again, race is not over yet, still chance for blabla.

Of course it was always super exciting to speculate and watch the GC in stageraces that Alberto competed in.
Winner wide open.
Who will be 2nd ? But no problem for me because Alberto is great to watch. There were other exciting competitions and stages in all stageraces.
At least I accepted his class and superior strenght and know that he would have won every stagerace he missed and will miss.
He had few "bad" days but that nearly never happens and I am not someone who wishes him anything bad.
Would have been interesting to see him compete against Tony and others here. Perhaps he would have been able to get some seconds on Martin and others before and after TT, lose some time in TT and things would be even closer now and till end, because Alberto attacks everywhere and can make the difference.
Perhaps he would have won that stage yesterday and TT, race nearly over, and just thinking about Alberto beeing dropped on a climb on way to Nizza by anyone would be just joking. Nizza stage on top. He has no abo for his stagerace winning streak, but it comes close.
Sometimes he even let his Spanish friends win.

You see, there are many factors to make a race interesting for you and for me. Even riders. There are always things that you can enjoy. May it just be Cavendish delivered to the 150m mark in perfection and win it.
That was good work someone could enjoy anyway.

Tony just does his best and is deserved leader so far, and I am sure many people like him and that race.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I guess it comes down to a matter of taste amongst those of us who have seen all the recent editions.

For those of us who rate the 2007-2010 editions as exceptional. We had a great run. Sooner or later we were going to get a less spontaneous race. I think most of us saw this coming when the route was announced.
On the bright side, we did get a great first stage, instead of another race against the clock.
Others seem to prefer this clock-centric formula, so they are rightly enjoying the fare being served up. This is their time.

Anyhow, it was nice to read a reasoned debate on the merits of this edition, rather than something that begins and ends with an immature personal attack, simply because a poster holds a different viewpoint.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I guess it comes down to a matter of taste amongst those of us who have seen all the recent editions.

For those of us who rate the 2007-2010 editions as exceptional. We had a great run. Sooner or later we were going to get a less spontaneous race. I think most of us saw this coming when the route was announced.
On the bright side, we did get a great first stage, instead of another race against the clock.
Others seem to prefer this clock-centric formula, so they are rightly enjoying the fare being served up. This is their time.

Anyhow, it was nice to read a reasoned debate on the merits of this edition, rather than something that begins and ends with an immature personal attack, simply because a poster holds a different viewpoint.

Taste always a factor, but people should at least accept facts instead of making things up and do much exaggerating.
Exaggerating and all that whining always has a negative impact.
Especially if people behave like an offended kid and can't stop provocating.

Making the race worse all the time, can't be be good. If people don't like it they are free to do something else while others can enjoy the race.
They then can be happy with all their super "exceptional" editions before.
While this is again exaggerating and this edition hasn't even finished, people start congratulating Martin like crying babys.

Too much moaning, ranting and stubbornness. I always thought that this is reserved for dying German cycling forums and especially German journalists.

We should keep this thing positive because it is a great sport in difficult times. Sometimes I really wonder why some people still follow this sport.

I am really tired of all that negative attitude. Especially if people have other motives than they proclaim.

 

[Ryaguas]

Sorry I'm late to the party but I was traveling... ufff Tony Martin pwnd the ITT! also great performances by Wiggo and Porte! nice to see that those 2 have some form