Paris - Nice, Stage 7 Col d'Eze ITT 9.6 km, Sunday 10/3

[Ryo Hazuki]

thanks Le breton. i knew all of them,i've read the clinic thread at the time
i still think something doesn't add up. i just can't see how kelly could have been in '83 as fast as bobrik in '95. that would change everything we know about jet fuel. do you believe it's possible?

i won't change my mind until i find a witness who knows exactly the spot from where they started in the '80s. some times from the 80's i found them impossible from that decade

did you read what he said? bobrik was a lot faster than kelly

 

[jens_attacks]

did you read what he said? bobrik was a lot faster than kelly

oh ryo....

1983: Kelly 18.57
1995 - Bobrik en 22' 32'' ie equiv to 18 :56


and myself, i estimated those time ascents and i got the same approximate times. without a doubt,i think the distances from the 80's were not exact

what i find exact is this:

1991 12 km Rominger 23:53(wins the itt)
1992 12 km Rominger 22:38(second in the itt,improves by 1'15'' from last year)
1994 12,5 km Rominger 22:06(wins the itt and improves by 2'25'' approximate his 1991 time)

Hopp Tony!!!!!

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

lol, I took a different years of kelly that I saw. my bad

still to add to the argument, bobrik was a joke of a rider, kelly was a once every 20-30 years rider. so bobrik riding as fast as kelly proves very much how much of a joke the mid and early 90s were

 

[Le breton]

thanks Le breton. i knew all of them,i've read the clinic thread at the time
i still think something doesn't add up. i just can't see how kelly could have been in '83 as fast as bobrik in '95. that would change everything we know about jet fuel. do you believe it's possible?

i won't change my mind until i find a witness who knows exactly the spot from where they started in the '80s. some times from the 80's i found them impossible from that decade

It looks to me like Kelly had an incredible engine. Look at his position on any flat TT , it seems like nobody ever told him :"Baisse la tête t'auras l'air d'un coureur" (Lower your head you'll like a racing cyclist). He wasted so much energy and lost so much time in such events!

Obviously he also got in top shape with a fairly low amount of training and was already at 100% in Paris-Nce when many others top racers still were only at 90%.

PS written after looking at page 1* here, in this thread and at Google map.

The departure of the TT seems to be at 43.708307° N / 7.292862°E Boulvard Bischoffscheim

The altitude seems to be below 20 meters (not 32 or 36 m)

The distance to the intersection at the col des 4 chemins is 5.5 km and the altitude of the col according to google map is between 340 and 360 meters ( 338 m according to the ASO map)

If you follow the course indicated page 1* you arrive at a high point at about 520 m after 8.6 km.

Then the road goes down slowly and dips below 480m ! as low as 470m, at which point the distance is 9,6 km from the start!

I conclude that google relief map might be slightly displaced from the real terrain.

 

[jens_attacks]

kelly was a powerhouse but i still don't believe those times.

hey it looks like ryo underrated a little bit lol the peformances up col d'eze...




sutherland climbed eze at 6.1 w/kg, 474 watts and he managed 40th place lol
maybe my little absolutely non-scientific guess was more accurate?richie towards 7 w/kg?
anyway chapeau richie!

 

[Dazed and Confused]

kelly was a powerhouse but i still don't believe those times.

hey it looks like ryo underrated a little bit lol the peformances up col d'eze...




sutherland climbed eze at 6.1 w/kg, 474 watts and he managed 40th place lol
maybe my little absolutely non-scientific guess was more accurate?richie towards 7 w/kg?
anyway chapeau richie!

I think you are right about Porte's performance.

From Eurosport, here we have Kelly's response:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhzM78kI2tc&feature=player_detailpage#t=47s

And Porte could have clipped another 10s off his time, had he gone 100% the whole way.

Sutherland @ 6.1 W/Kg. Only 40th. Almost like an amateur.

 

[Winterfold]

Yeah i remember harmonn saying it but then someone else linked a list showing kellies best time on the climb proper was 19.46.

Im not saying i trust the second one or that its right but equally just cos harmonn said Kelly was faster doesnt mean he definately was.

I think confusion arises from discussions of fastest average speed and best times - as le breton's data indicates the course varies over the years and one rider can have the fastest time and another the fastest speed.

Thanks le breton!

 

[Le breton]

I think confusion arises from discussions of fastest average speed and best times - as le breton's data indicates the course varies over the years and one rider can have the fastest time and another the fastest speed.

Thanks le breton!

Hi Winterfold,

I have tried to find more without much success.
However this post from last year on slowtwitch is relevant
Re: Col D'Eze: Wiggins vs Sean Kelly....25 years and only 33 seconds [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Quote | Reply
From the commentary I think Kelly's average speed was higher than Wiggins, just over a slightly longer course.
The Poulidor and Merckx course was apparently pretty close to the one used today.

Sean did say that he though there might have been a tailwind on his record ride though, where today was supposedly quite calm.
He also said that he rode a special lightweight bike for the climb, around the 6.8kg mark too, and that the road surface back then was similarly good.


(This post was edited by carlosferreiro on Mar 11, 12 16:32)

The course twists and turns quite a bit, which would limit the gain from a favorable wind.

 

[Winterfold]

So Porte and Wiggo have no technology advantage against the King of this race, on a supermaximum effort TT which suits him and he had a tailwind.

In that case it doesn't really surprise me that his average speed hasnt been beaten yet.

Kelly was a genuine once in a generation rider.