Pat throws Hein under the (USPS) bus?

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thehog said:
I still smell a rat. Two weeks ago Pat's lawyers were sending out letters to defend their "honour".... and now what Floyd says is "probably" true?

So what do the fanboys say to "never tested positive" now? If the UCIs own president says it was easy to get away with.... what do they say now?
It is hard to tell anything from what McQuaid says. He has never shown himself to be a smart man, and he clearly never thinks about the implications of what he says to the press. He is like a human version of Twitter. Whatever he thinks, comes out of his mouth with no decision about whether or not it would be wise to say it.

He has told so many lies and made so many fatuous statements that no one can take anything he says seriously. You cannot parse what he says because there is no consistency from week to week.
 

Dr. Maserati

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JMBeaushrimp said:
Can't argue with that. If there is one thing I could wish for out of this protracted debacle, it would be that Hein's true nature be exposed. Possibly even more than perceived 'cleaning up the sport', I'd love that bureaucrat to be held to account.

Working for the better nature of the sport? Not quite. If we're placing bets, my money's on McQuack - if for no other reason that NO ONE can come across as more arrogant and obtuse as Verbruggen.

Maybe it really is his turn under the bus. I'd vote for him versus ANY actual rider. Afterall, believe it or not, the riders did not create this situation.

They may have been enabled, but they didn't create it...
All true - but we must remember that Hein had made Pat the 'chosen one' - and that they had been close long before Pat assumed the Presidency in 2005.


CN interview with Pat in 2005:
Well, the UCI is one of the most respected international federations in the world, and always has been. Particularly under the leadership of Hein Verbruggen when he took over the ‘new’ UCI, so to speak, about 14 years ago. We have achieved a huge amount in those years under his leadership and at all times - and I have worked closely with him for the past eight years - he has always been concerned that any decisions that we take stay within the statutes of the UCI Constitution.
 
thehog said:
I still smell a rat. Two weeks ago Pat's lawyers were sending out letters to defend their "honour".... and now what Floyd says is "probably" true?

So what do the fanboys say to "never tested positive" now? If the UCIs own president says it was easy to get away with.... what do they say now?
I'm sure they will come up with some sort of random nonsense.:rolleyes:
And someday, beleive it or not, we will be able to accept and publicly admit that there was doping and cheating during Lance's time. It will take a bit of time, however. The hurt is still too fresh for some. But the time will come.

Seriously, its true - Time DOES heal all wounds
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
All true - but we must remember that Hein had made Pat the 'chosen one' - and that they had been close long before Pat assumed the Presidency in 2005.


CN interview with Pat in 2005:
Ah, all too true. But don't burst my 'warm fuzzie' of Hein finally being forced to face the music he wrote.

I can't see any sort of justice being done if Hein doesn't fall under the umbrella of complicit inclusion. Please don't argue that he was sharp enough to find a talking goat to take the fall (and by that I mean Pat, "mehhhhh").

I guess we'll see what comes of it. I'm counting on it going the way of the rat-b*stards. When does it not?
 

Polish

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MacRoadie said:
If McQuaid knows (and publicly states) that there was "a lot of doping" going on during Verbruggen's reign, yet Verbruggen steadfastly denies it, then it must be one of those. Take your pick.
Are you sure Verbruggen denies doping under his reign?

After all, Bo Hamburger was the first rider to test positive for EPO under the new system introduced by the UCI in 2001.

And lots more riders were busted by the UCI back in those days.

Verbruggen really deinies that?
 
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TERMINATOR said:
You people have very poor reading comprehension and derive all sorts of inaccurate inferences where there is absolutely none.

When I read that quote, I do not see any implication against Hein whatsoever. McQuaid is a his friend and is simply saying he can only speak about his own personal knowledge during his tenure. For you to interpret this means that McQuaid is implying that he thinks it was corrupt under Hein is simply not true.
McQuaid doesn't need to imply what is pretty much common knowledge. There are still plenty of UCI issues under his tenure to suggest he doesn't separate his brand of business from Hein's. When Verbruggen suggests only
"1 to 2 percent" of riders are doping he may be close...unfortunately those are the riders that have been winning most of the races and getting caught cheating with UCI help if Floyd is to be believed.
 

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Polish said:
Are you sure Verbruggen denies doping under his reign?

After all, Bo Hamburger was the first rider to test positive for EPO under the new system introduced by the UCI in 2001.

And lots more riders were busted by the UCI back in those days.

Verbruggen really deinies that?
I hope Hein does deny that - as Bo was cleared (like Contador) when his B sample was questionable.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
I hope Hein does deny that - as Bo was cleared (like Contador) when his B sample was questionable.
Ah for simpler times. Back then you just paid someone to spill the B vial and, voilla! Innocent.
 
BroDeal said:
It is hard to tell anything from what McQuaid says. He has never shown himself to be a smart man, and he clearly never thinks about the implications of what he says to the press. He is like a human version of Twitter. Whatever he thinks, comes out of his mouth with no decision about whether or not it would be wise to say it.

He has told so many lies and made so many fatuous statements that no one can take anything he says seriously. You cannot parse what he says because there is no consistency from week to week.
Maybe Pat is worried about Floyd becoming an anti-hero after Landis wrote his email rebuff about being sued by the UCI?

Maybe McQuaid thinks its cool now to hang with Floyd? And Armstrong has lost his appeal to the masses?

Doubt it. Like you say next week Pat will provide an interview whereby USPS will be announced team of the decade and he'll decry Floyd as scum.
 
JMBeaushrimp said:
I can't see any sort of justice being done if Hein doesn't fall under the umbrella of complicit inclusion. Please don't argue that he was sharp enough to find a talking goat to take the fall (and by that I mean Pat, "mehhhhh").
Did any of the Armstrong "donations" fall under the reign of Fat Pat McQuaid, or were they all under Verbruggen?

Also, how does McQuaid reconcile these current comments with his remarks about Armstrong still being a "great champion" regardless of the outcome of the Federal investigation?
 
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Berzin said:
Did any of the Armstrong "donations" fall under the reign of Fat Pat McQuaid, or were they all under Verbruggen?

Also, how does McQuaid reconcile these current comments with his remarks about Armstrong still being a "great champion" regardless of the outcome of the Federal investigation?
Armstrong's attendance at McQuaid-family promoted Irish events bothered alot of people, for a start. You'd think they would take a softer route to exchange favors than "buying" a Sysmex machine and certainly a much less trackable transaction.
As for Pat's need to reconcile his statements: I doubt he'll lose any sleep over the inconsistencies of that characterization any more than the number of other ridiculous things he's said.
 

Polish

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Berzin said:
Also, how does McQuaid reconcile these current comments with his remarks about Armstrong still being a "great champion" regardless of the outcome of the Federal investigation?
What does the outcome of the Federal investigation have to do with it?

Al Capone a Great Bootlegger regardless of the Feds lol.
 
A

Anonymous

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This is the one for the 17th?

Not got it, but in the preview they dont mention a mcquaid interview. Shall have to see if i can find it somewhere.
 

Dr. Maserati

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TeamSkyFans said:
This is the one for the 17th?

Not got it, but in the preview they dont mention a mcquaid interview. Shall have to see if i can find it somewhere.
Dim it's CW issue from Thursday 10th February.
 
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Polish said:
What does the outcome of the Federal investigation have to do with it?

Al Capone a Great Bootlegger regardless of the Feds lol.
I enjoy the "lol" when you use it.

It comes off as a nervous "lol", whether that is your intent or not. Almost like a tic, as if you'd spent too much time under power cabling or ingesting pesticides.

From your recent series of retreats it must be a tough time in the polish household, though I encourage you to embrace this in a healthy way. Express yourself, draw, sing, perhaps even exercise to expel the toxins that will have remained from your time trying to "Livestrong".

Just know that those here on this forum do support you through this difficult but also liberating time. If there is anything we can do, don't hesitate to ask.
 
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Polish said:
Are you sure Verbruggen denies doping under his reign?

After all, Bo Hamburger was the first rider to test positive for EPO under the new system introduced by the UCI in 2001.

And lots more riders were busted by the UCI back in those days.

Verbruggen really deinies that?
"If you had another kind problem in the sport of one or two percent, you would talk about it that much, you wouldn't give it give it 50 percent of the space. That's thee problem. I don't blame the media. They have to do what they think they have to do. If they think they can sell you magazines best by talking about doping, then do that. It's a business decision in the end."

Verbruggen said the media should talk about doping in a different way.

"We have to change the message in cycling. We should not say 'they never learn' when we have a positive case. That's a wrong message that we all give. If we only take one or two percent that are positive, give the 98 percent a chance to say that they learned."

"Those who don't (dope), don't deserved to be treated the way they're treated now. That's the problem."

"You cannot generalise. I'll always be opposed to that. We know that one percent is sanctioned. We know we don't catch everybody, but you can't say they all doped. Those statements drives me nuts."
Verbruggen criticises the media coverage of doping

One or two percent...

The bad blood between the Wada chairman and Verbruggen and Armstrong began when cycling delayed signing up to the Wada code until shortly before the Sydney Olympics. In 2003, the UCI was incensed when a report by Wada observers on the 2003 Tour de France was leaked and in 2002 Verbruggen accused Pound of acting like "a sheriff in the Wild West, shooting at every target".
Verbruggen gets affronted and personal with Pound

Verbruggen puts personal issues before the fight aginst doping?

The Professional Cycling Council exists to look towards the future,” said Verbruggen. “And it does so knowing that cycling is in extremely good health. There are not many sports that could have come through the difficult period after the 1998 Tour in the way professional cycling has.”
Verbruggen: Coast case may accelerate UCI reforms

Extremely good health, on the heels of his resignation from WADA?

The head of cycling's governing body is also convinced that the allegations are unjustified, but is not surprised by the innuendoes made against the Texan.

"Regretfully, I expected this kind of thing," said Hein Verbruggen, president of the International Cycling Union (UCI).

"Cycling has created this situation for itself. Last year we found doping existed on a larger scale than we thought. Now there is a kind of reaction.

"But I do not think the suspicions surrounding Armstrong are justified. They are not correct. Yet I can understand that such suspicions exist."

Before the 13th stage of the race on Saturday, Verbruggen said moves to clean up the sport were having an effect.

"The controls have visibly improved over last year and the year before," he said.

"People are more aware of their responsibilities, that is clear.

"Several sporting directors have also called me to say the race is cleaner than in the past."
Armstrong "Drug free" - doctor

First of all I have to comment about what was reported in Der Spiegel; we do many many controls [drug tests] in cycling, and have 1% positive cases. One percent. The other 99% - I don't say that they are all clean because, you know, if you do [drug] control you have to accept the fact that there are certain products that the laboratories can not detect. But, how many riders or athletes use those illegal substances that cannot be detected - nobody knows - and definitely not Der Spiegel.
http://www.downhill.co.nz/worldcup/uci/index.htm

There's that 1% again...

"Most blood tests on this Tour have found riders' haematocrit levels at between 48 and 49 per cent [the upper limit is 50 per cent]. This is very encouraging. The Tour is almost clean, and the team managers have got the same impression.

"There are still a few cheats fiddling about, but it is not as organised as it used to be."
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/cycling--tour-de-france-tour-has-test-for-new-drug-1106970.html

"Last spring, when I visited the UCI headquarters in Aigle (Switzerland), saw that extremely sophisticated building and was told that (anti-doping) controls were too expensive....it still makes me smile," Pound said.

"During that visit, on April 13, (former UCI President Hein) Verbruggen told me that the state of mind in cycling had changed," said Pound.
"UCI were even thinking about reducing the number of tests. A few weeks later, the Puerta case broke out," he added, referring to an ongoing doping scandal in Spain.
Cycling and Soccer Not Doing Enough, Says WADA Chief
 
Colm.Murphy said:
I enjoy the "lol" when you use it.

It comes off as a nervous "lol", whether that is your intent or not. Almost like a tic, as if you'd spent too much time under power cabling or ingesting pesticides.

From your recent series of retreats it must be a tough time in the polish household, though I encourage you to embrace this in a healthy way. Express yourself, draw, sing, perhaps even exercise to expel the toxins that will have remained from your time trying to "Livestrong".

Just know that those here on this forum do support you through this difficult but also liberating time. If there is anything we can do, don't hesitate to ask.
I really LOL'd at that.;)
 
JMBeaushrimp said:
@MacRoadie; comprehensive, daunting, and scary. All that in one post. Nice!
Every time he talked it "was cleaner" than the time before, but you know in a way it was working (not a good way). I was as into pro cycling in the 90's as before and after and to some large extent I believed Hein. I believed before Festina that just a few whackos were killing themselves with the super dangerous EPO and the fact that most weren't dropping dead meant they were clean. Post Festina I believed that "it was a new day", I actually believed Lance. Then came Puerto, even then I believed that the UCI was really going after all the cheats.
The only difference between UCI and the FIFA is that the latter has a lot more money.
 
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Hugh Januss said:
Every time he talked it "was cleaner" than the time before, but you know in a way it was working (not a good way). I was as into pro cycling in the 90's as before and after and to some large extent I believed Hein. I believed before Festina that just a few whackos were killing themselves with the super dangerous EPO and the fact that most weren't dropping dead meant they were clean. Post Festina I believed that "it was a new day", I actually believed Lance. Then came Puerto, even then I believed that the UCI was really going after all the cheats.
The only difference between UCI and the FIFA is that the latter has a lot more money.
Ahh, that's my last hold-out (morally speaking). There are many more under-paid 'pros' that know what's going on. I'm hoping that the lion's share of that part of the peloton is clean, and willing to speak up.

Still holding out. It's gotta be tough in the current environment, though. It doesn't pay to **** your bosses off.
 

Dr. Maserati

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MacRoadie said:
Nice work - here is one of my favourites from the book "Inside Dope" where the WADA chief Dick Pound went to a UCI meeting in April 2006:
At my meeting with the UCI in April 2006, I almost fell off my chair when Hein Verbruggen said that the UCI had so few positive drug tests that they had concluded there was not a drug problem in cycling after all and they were giving serious thought to reducing the number of tests they performed.
...... this would have been just a few weeks before Operation Puerto.
 

Polish

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So Hein is an optimist.

Glass half full kind of guy.
Life hands you lemons - you make lemonade lol.

Not a Federal Offense.
Not getting thrown under a bus.

What was he thrown under a bus for again?
Getting back on topic.....
 
Most blood tests on this Tour have found riders' haematocrit levels at between 48 and 49 per cent [the upper limit is 50 per cent]. This is very encouraging.
Uh, Hein, the average male HT, inlcuding pro racers, is in the low 40s. Finding values at 48-49% is exactly what you would expect if riders are doping up to the 50% limit.
 

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