ebandit said:paula ran faster than anyone ever thanks to grit and determination.............please move along..........nothing to see here
Mark L
what's that?.........at the first sign of adversity sweet paula bursts into tears............
this is so funnySkyTears said:Guys i have a list with 100 cyclist names that produced dodgy testing results but never been folowed up.
It has 1 italian, 1 colombian, 1 spanish and 1 british high profile riders on it.
p.s. if you have such thing show it or stfu. i have something big in my pants to, come and check my show.
Someday you will look back on this post and think how naive beliefs in an athlete will make you post things that otherwise might not seem logical. Time will tell but stats say that these endurance athletes today are doped up full bore.armchairclimber said:Paula Radcliffe did not really have a suspicious trajectory. I remember watching her win the World Junior XC Championship by a distance. I doubt very much that she was juiced then. Under those circumstances, until the list is revealed and subject to scrutiny, I don't think there's much to suggest that she is a doper. She has been a vehement anti-doping spokesperson for years....unlike most cyclists and the "I've never tested positive" types.
I think it's fine to question her but I think too many clinic assumptions are being made. The sneery stuff about her defecating in the gutter doesn't edify the discussion much either.
armchairclimber said:You are the one bringing nationality into it, and laying bare your bigotry, not me. Farah is British. I don't believe Froome to be clean for one minute .... he's British (sort of). If you're going to have a pop at me, you'd better find some more secure ground than that.
armchairclimber said:Maybe I will. I'm always willing to be proven wrong. I'm guessing that I know a good deal more about track and field than you do though. Just guessing mind. I could be wrong there too.
Oh, and I am pretty well aware that a good many of today's endurance athletes are blood doping in some way or other. My belief that Radcliffe was straight does not preclude that.
I'm extremely suspicious of Mo Farah for instance....although I reckon he has been "bending the rules" rather than doping with EPO.
armchairclimber said:Paula Radcliffe did not really have a suspicious trajectory. I remember watching her win the World Junior XC Championship by a distance. I doubt very much that she was juiced then. Under those circumstances, until the list is revealed and subject to scrutiny, I don't think there's much to suggest that she is a doper. She has been a vehement anti-doping spokesperson for years....unlike most cyclists and the "I've never tested positive" types.
I think it's fine to question her but I think too many clinic assumptions are being made. The sneery stuff about her defecating in the gutter doesn't edify the discussion much either.
armchairclimber said:Paula Radcliffe did not really have a suspicious trajectory. I remember watching her win the World Junior XC Championship by a distance. I doubt very much that she was juiced then. Under those circumstances, until the list is revealed and subject to scrutiny, I don't think there's much to suggest that she is a doper. She has been a vehement anti-doping spokesperson for years....unlike most cyclists and the "I've never tested positive" types.
I think it's fine to question her but I think too many clinic assumptions are being made. The sneery stuff about her defecating in the gutter doesn't edify the discussion much either.
You are kinda right that sceptic was out of line going straight to the nationality card there. Your posting history does not deserve it.armchairclimber said:You are the one bringing nationality into it, and laying bare your bigotry, not me. Farah is British. I don't believe Froome to be clean for one minute .... he's British (sort of). If you're going to have a pop at me, you'd better find some more secure ground than that.
Benotti69 said:armchairclimber said:Maybe I will. I'm always willing to be proven wrong. I'm guessing that I know a good deal more about track and field than you do though. Just guessing mind. I could be wrong there too.
Oh, and I am pretty well aware that a good many of today's endurance athletes are blood doping in some way or other. My belief that Radcliffe was straight does not preclude that.
I'm extremely suspicious of Mo Farah for instance....although I reckon he has been "bending the rules" rather than doping with EPO.
There are simple questions to be asked.
How does a clean athlete beat Nations where they have national doping programs funded by governments?
How does a clean athlete beat the likes of Balco's athletes who are taking PEDs that there is no test for?
How many Balco's are there out there fabricating new PEDs that are undetected? We know there are over 100 variations of EPO and not all can be tested for?
Why believe an athlete when they dont release information to show they are transparent?
How does a clean athlete beat doped ones when the international federations are more interested in how the sport makes money rather than anti doping?
armchairclimber said:Paula Radcliffe did not really have a suspicious trajectory. I remember watching her win the World Junior XC Championship by a distance. I doubt very much that she was juiced then. Under those circumstances, until the list is revealed and subject to scrutiny, I don't think there's much to suggest that she is a doper. She has been a vehement anti-doping spokesperson for years....unlike most cyclists and the "I've never tested positive" types.
I think it's fine to question her but I think too many clinic assumptions are being made. The sneery stuff about her defecating in the gutter doesn't edify the discussion much either.
armchairclimber said:Maybe I will. I'm always willing to be proven wrong. I'm guessing that I know a good deal more about track and field than you do though. Just guessing mind. I could be wrong there too.
Oh, and I am pretty well aware that a good many of today's endurance athletes are blood doping in some way or other. My belief that Radcliffe was straight does not preclude that.
I'm extremely suspicious of Mo Farah for instance....although I reckon he has been "bending the rules" rather than doping with EPO.
The Hitch said:Benotti69 said:armchairclimber said:Maybe I will. I'm always willing to be proven wrong. I'm guessing that I know a good deal more about track and field than you do though. Just guessing mind. I could be wrong there too.
Oh, and I am pretty well aware that a good many of today's endurance athletes are blood doping in some way or other. My belief that Radcliffe was straight does not preclude that.
I'm extremely suspicious of Mo Farah for instance....although I reckon he has been "bending the rules" rather than doping with EPO.
There are simple questions to be asked.
How does a clean athlete beat Nations where they have national doping programs funded by governments?
How does a clean athlete beat the likes of Balco's athletes who are taking PEDs that there is no test for?
How many Balco's are there out there fabricating new PEDs that are undetected? We know there are over 100 variations of EPO and not all can be tested for?
Why believe an athlete when they dont release information to show they are transparent?
How does a clean athlete beat doped ones when the international federations are more interested in how the sport makes money rather than anti doping?
What marathon runners did conte dope at balco.
great post.More Strides than Rides said:BTW heres the podium from the '92 junior xc race.
Paula Radcliffe United Kingdom 13:30
Wang Junxia China 13:35
Lydia Cheromei Kenya 13:43
I don't know why people assume athletes under the age of 18 are protected or immune from doping. I would put my hand to the fire that Junxia was knee deep in state sponsored PEDs, and Cheromei (who tested positive later in her career) would take whatever pill whatever agent gave her for a shot to be a star, given the state of female talent development at the time.
More Strides than Rides said:armchairclimber said:Paula Radcliffe did not really have a suspicious trajectory. I remember watching her win the World Junior XC Championship by a distance. I doubt very much that she was juiced then. Under those circumstances, until the list is revealed and subject to scrutiny, I don't think there's much to suggest that she is a doper. She has been a vehement anti-doping spokesperson for years....unlike most cyclists and the "I've never tested positive" types.
I think it's fine to question her but I think too many clinic assumptions are being made. The sneery stuff about her defecating in the gutter doesn't edify the discussion much either.
The only reason her trajectory could look normal is by comparing it to her compatriots like Froome and Wiggans. Farah too as he lays out to set WRs outdoors. In 2001, when she was definatly a 10k runner by this point, she runs her best 1500m, andher best HM time. She was pure middle distance before that, but somehow improved on those cedntials by training as long distance. You don't get better moving farther away from specificity.
No one mirrors her trajectory in terms if magnitude. Yes, they make a neat little graph, but that graph is wider than anyone else, spanning a range of distances and performances unmirrored by any other athlete, clean or dirty.
The current crop of marathon elites are career marathoners. It's not some race they do as the age, they are cropped to marathon specific training from a young age (young professionally, 20ish). Yet somehow this miler found the light in plyometrics and lowerbody weights.
The Hitch said:You are kinda right that sceptic was out of line going straight to the nationality card there. Your posting history does not deserve it.armchairclimber said:You are the one bringing nationality into it, and laying bare your bigotry, not me. Farah is British. I don't believe Froome to be clean for one minute .... he's British (sort of). If you're going to have a pop at me, you'd better find some more secure ground than that.
However I do find your "farah is British" quote strange. Did you think your comment was critical of farah?
You said you don't believe he takes epo but instead is merely "bending the rules". In my book that is about as pro farah a comment as you could make. Even the forums biggest brit homer martinvickers, who strongly believed and argued that brits don't dope as much as everyone else threw farah to the wolves.(though admittedly, only as a way of asking for posters to focus on him and not froome and Wiggins)
If farah can dominate like he has last few years by merely bending the rules a little, even coming close to the 1500 wr, then that means he's doing it all on talent.
I don't get it. Brailsford himself said something like if I cheat or Monday I'll cheat on Tuesday, meaning, that jf you cheat you go all in. Why would athletes only bend the rules a little? What's the point of doing it only a little. That way your taking the same risks as an actual cheater but getting almost nothing from it.
And I don't consider it a remotely brave nor critical position. Feels like a weak compromise - oh I don't want to believe the guy is doping but people will mock me if I say he's clean so let's just say he bends the rules.
Its braver to just say he's clean. If any athlete actually only took a few puffs of cough medicine they are clean in my book. If farah never took real drugs and just "bent the rules" as far as I'm concerned he's clean and one of the greatest athletes in history. I have no time to go after people for taking worthless meaningless shortcuts worth a few tenths of a second when world sport is so polluted with people transforming themselves into superhulks.
This is about the real drugs that make a real difference.
The Hitch said:armchairclimber said:Paula Radcliffe did not really have a suspicious trajectory. I remember watching her win the World Junior XC Championship by a distance. I doubt very much that she was juiced then. Under those circumstances, until the list is revealed and subject to scrutiny, I don't think there's much to suggest that she is a doper. She has been a vehement anti-doping spokesperson for years....unlike most cyclists and the "I've never tested positive" types.
I think it's fine to question her but I think too many clinic assumptions are being made. The sneery stuff about her defecating in the gutter doesn't edify the discussion much either.
Actually there is only one assumption being made- that race radio was telling the truth. Which is not exactly a major leap to take.