Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[portugal11]

He rarely misses decisive moves. I have a bad feeling for tomorrow

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Since the way they ascended Kemmelberg in yesterday's G-W was quite similar to last year, I decided to check the times (last steep stretch after the moderate left turn to the sharp right-hand bend on the top).

2016: Sagan, Cancellara - 38 seconds
2016: Van Avermaet - 41 seconds
2017: Sagan - 39 seconds
2017: Van Avermaet - 43 seconds

Surprisingly similar times.
Sagan looks as good as last year.

 

[sQiD]

"It is not impossible to win the Tour !"

http://www.dw.com/en/peter-sagan-the-key-is-not-to-think-about-it/a-38219411

 

[Jspear]

He could never win it even if he lost weight and focused on climbing.

 

[loge1884]

Re:

He could never win it even if he lost weight and focused on climbing.

I'm not entirely sure about "never" (we've seen Sir Bradley Wiggins doing it ...), but then again, he would have to invest at least 3 years of "body-transforming" and thus sacrifying any chance of making big wins during this time ... not sure it would be worth it, as the outcome would be very incertain to say the least ....

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

Re:

"It is not impossible to win the Tour !"

http://www.dw.com/en/peter-sagan-the-key-is-not-to-think-about-it/a-38219411

You my friend have a bright future in clickbait journalism. He basically said the opposite but in the meantime you got me to read the whole thing.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

He could never win it even if he lost weight and focused on climbing.

I'm not entirely sure about "never" (we've seen Sir Bradley Wiggins doing it ...), but then again, he would have to invest at least 3 years of "body-transforming" and thus sacrifying any chance of making big wins during this time ... not sure it would be worth it, as the outcome would be very incertain to say the least ....

Fair enough. I agree.

Right now he's an amazing rider who attacks, puts on a show, wins breakaways, solo, bunch sprints....he's playing to his strengths and should never change that. In this specialized world, there is no guarantee he would make it with climbers even if he was able to transform his body.

 

[Gigs_98]

People tend to forget that guys like wiggins or now dumoulin only have to climb better to be gt contenders since they are incrdible time trialists. Sagan isn't. If he wants to win a gt he would most likely need to be the best climber of the race.
I'd love to see a rider like him trying to win gt's but I doubt he will be successful and it would be absolutely stupid to throw away his talent for classics before he he has even won all big races he can win now.

 

[loge1884]

People tend to forget that guys like wiggins or now dumoulin only have to climb better to be gt contenders since they are incrdible time trialists. Sagan isn't. If he wants to win a gt he would most likely need to be the best climber of the race.
I'd love to see a rider like him trying to win gt's but I doubt he will be successful and it would be absolutely stupid to throw away his talent for classics before he he has even won all big races he can win now.

well he did win a few prologues and a medium-lenght TT in Cali (+ the final 10k of RvV last year was basically a TT agains Spartacus) .... doesn't make him the new Cancellara or Tony Martin of course, but I guess he could be on par with say Cadel Evans in his best years ....
I guess in most races he doesn't waste much energy on TTs as he's not focused on the GC. Then longer TTs are perhaps rather boring and go a bit against his will to putting up a show and finally he would also have to change his attitude of giving ROW to elder ladies and their dogs on any cross-walks .....

 

[Screecher]

Very little luck this season, i just hope that he´s physically okay and will be at 100% in PR so that he can improve on his best result of 6th from 2014.

 

[portugal11]

Awful classics season so far

 

[loge1884]

Re:

Very little luck this season, i just hope that he´s physically okay and will be at 100% in PR so that he can improve on his best result of 6th from 2014.

true, but honestly, today for once the right person won, even if it wasn't Sagan ..... hope Peter can change fortunes in P-R ....

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Very little luck this season, i just hope that he´s physically okay and will be at 100% in PR so that he can improve on his best result of 6th from 2014.

Don't think luck has much to do with it. He messed the sprint up tactically at Omloop; started the sprint too early at MSR; was positioned poorly at E3 and played games and got burnt at GW.

Then today, he failed to mark one of the two riders who were a real danger to him on the first potential split - the Muur. Even though Gilbert telegraphed the move for about 4km before the climb. Then he crashed; while leading a group - that's not bad luck, it's poor handling and line choice.

For all his talent - and he is one of the most talented riders I have ever seen - he is also one of the worst tactically.

 

[sQiD]

Re: Re:

Very little luck this season, i just hope that he´s physically okay and will be at 100% in PR so that he can improve on his best result of 6th from 2014.

Don't think luck has much to do with it. He messed the sprint up tactically at Omloop; started the sprint too early at MSR; was positioned poorly at E3 and played games and got burnt at GW.

Then today, he failed to mark one of the two riders who were a real danger to him on the first potential split - the Muur. Even though Gilbert telegraphed the move for about 4km before the climb. Then he crashed; while leading a group - that's not bad luck, it's poor handling and line choice.

For all his talent - and he is one of the most talented riders I have ever seen - he is also one of the worst tactically.

take it easy on Peter my freind, he can't win every race. it was unfortunate that he crashed, but that's bike racing and luck is a major element. he said it at the press conference before the race.
just hope he didn't hurt a lot. there will be another Flanders & PR in the future.

 

[Netserk]

Unfortunate, but he really should have ridden in the right hand side gutter like Phil did and not to the left. Bring on Roubaix!

 

[sQiD]

Re:

Unfortunate, but he really should have ridden in the right hand side gutter like Phil did and not to the left. Bring on Roubaix!

last year he rode with Sep on the left, so...

 

[saganftw]

Re:

Unfortunate, but he really should have ridden in the right hand side gutter like Phil did and not to the left. Bring on Roubaix!

how can you determine one side is safer than other? i doubt thats something you can know because nobody crashed there before...it was just unfortunate crash and from the photos it looks like he caught the feet of the barrier that was for some reason like a foot more forward than others

 

[Netserk]

Did the barriers stand exactly the same a year ago? There were clearly more space on the right this year than on the left.

 

[d-s3]

This crash was unfortunate.
But his positioning is not good this season. He was on a wrong side of a split few times already this season, being forced to chase.
Especially at E3 where he ended up in crash because of being too far in a group.
At RV it was on Mur where he should have been between first few riders.

It's one thing that he should not chase all attacks. But on hills and cobbles, he should be upfront. It will not save him any energy being behind.

 

[wayahead]

I'd say he somehow lost his self-balance and self-confidence after MSR defeat. It was more painful for him than today's crash. He seems to not know what to do, his judgments are poor.

Problem is he is not one of the smartest guys in the peloton. (I mean pure IQ here, tactical savvy, not wheelsucking.) So he has to go by instinct. But it's hard to do when you're overwhelmed by thinking.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I'd say he somehow lost his self-balance and self-confidence after MSR defeat. It was more painful for him than today's crash. He seems to not know what to do, his judgments are poor.

Problem is he is not one of the smartest guys in the peloton. (I mean pure IQ here, tactical savvy, not wheelsucking.) So he has to go by instinct. But it's hard to do when you're overwhelmed by thinking.

I think this is spot on. After MSR, getting ambushed by in theory a slower finisher, he lost a lot of confidence. He's the kind of rider who is best I think when he is super-aggressive and rides by instinct. Now he's trying to over-think everything and is sitting too far back. And he's playing tactical games against riders who are more tactically savvy - because they've been doing that kind of thing since about 15 years old - while Sagan was just beating everyone on power alone.

Bora management should take responsibilty as well - they should give him simple instructions. Today, for example, tell him just to mark Gilbert and GVA and ignore everyone else. It was 95% sure that at least one of those would be in the finale of the race, because they are both strong and good tactically. Sagan should use the strengths of other riders like that to his own advantage.

 

[hrotha]

If memory serves, last year at the Ronde he was also surprisingly casual about positioning during what could easily have been key moments of the race with ~55-60 km to go, but he got lucky and nothing happened. This year it was different.

 

[kareeem]

“There were various crashes on the Muur. I couldn’t get up to the front. I thought that Quick-Step would do something there, but the others crashed two times, and I was a little bit behind, just that it was all blocked with riders everywhere,” Sagan added.

“I was not far off after the Muur, but Trek pulled hard to catch me. So thought, ‘OK, if they are pulling and take me, and they continue to pull to get the escape,’ but they stopped pedalling when they caught me.

“We were at six seconds and I don’t know why they didn’t’ take them back. That was a little mistaken because we so near to catching them and they didn’t do it.

“That’s the thing that, yet again, they raced as if they were OK and I was just there alone, but the escape was up the road and someone from that escape won.”

 

[kareeem]

On his crash

“I think you can see from the video what happened. It was my fault, but I just don’t know,” Sagan explained.

“I was near the barrier, yeah, but I was controlling the space; how close I was. I think it was a pullover or something, I didn’t know.

“If you hit a barrier, you are right on the ground, your bike remains there, but I felt something and I was able to continue ahead.

“I didn’t fall right away, and my bars didn’t spin, then something gave me a problem and right away the other riders hit me from behind and I wasn’t able to continue.”

Sagan spoke in Italian as he rode his bike from anti-doping to the hospital next door. He said that he can normally ride on the left side at the top of the Oude Kwaremont, where the cobbles continue next to the massive white VIP tents, without problems.

“Every year, if you are doing it alone, you can do it. I was alone ahead and they were following me, but then I snagged on a pullover or I don’t know, some flag. Then the barrier was after, I went towards the barrier. Beforehand, I was far enough from the barrier, but I snagged something”

Asked if he hurt, Sagan pointed down to his right hip. He said, “la anca.” He went inside for X-rays and other checks.

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/peter-sagan-tour-flanders-crash-partly-fault-323020?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social#JIs01su18IJLI6rW.99

 

[wayahead]

Re: Re:

He's the kind of rider who is best I think when he is super-aggressive and rides by instinct. Now he's trying to over-think everything and is sitting too far back. And he's playing tactical games against riders who are more tactically savvy - because they've been doing that kind of thing since about 15 years old - while Sagan was just beating everyone on power alone.

Well...

I thought that Quick-Step would do something there, but others crashed and I was a little bit behind because it was blocked with riders everywhere."

"I was not far off after the Muur, but Trek pulled hard to catch me. So I thought, 'OK, if they are pulling and catch me, then they'll continue to pull to catch the break', but they stopped pedalling when they caught me. We were at six seconds and I don't know why they didn't try to catch them. That was a mistake because we were so close to catching them and they didn't do it.