Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[yaco]

All I know is the best wheel to follow in a Mass sprint finish is Sagan's.

 

[Netserk]

Kristoff's is often better. Not much to gain by being on the wheel of a rider who comes from behind.

 

[loge1884]

I still do not understand how this "stupid" Sagan can be on podium practically in every third race he enters. Especially in TDF and especially in bunch sprints, how can he as non-sprinter alone without any train beat all those "smart" cyclists. Probably luck.
Yes, he is definitely dumb and without any street smartness.

If your input was intended to be a sort of reply to mine just a bit further above, then please understand I definitely do not judge or challenge Peter's intelligence in general nor his 'street smartness' ...
I have for sure never seen any dumb moves from him - maybe in some instances he makes a decision which on hindsight proves to be the wrong one (e.g. sprint at Milan-San Remo), but that happens and has nothing to do with a lack of wit or the like ....

 

[Keram]

How Sagan could dnf today? He was pulling peloton maybe 4km to go. Why he just didnt come to finish with some time gap?

 

[yaco]

Re:

Kristoff's is often better. Not much to gain by being on the wheel of a rider who comes from behind.

Kristoff is a good wheel seeing he usually goes to early in his sprint.

 

[Lance Armstrong]

Re:

How Sagan could dnf today? He was pulling peloton maybe 4km to go. Why he just didnt come to finish with some time gap?

To prevent the usual Slovak media headlines: "Yet another disappointment. Sagan finished 138th."

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

Sagan is immensely talented physically, he has awesome instincts, but when thinking is required, he loses to some of his opponents.
You can't get it all, I guess...

And he became significantly frustrated. Both by opponents and by media.
He needs a big win to get rid of the pressure and to ride "for fun" again.

Hi, exactly. In slovakia, there are rumours, that he's not the brightest, nor his father, ... Somebody has already said it here, you can't get it all. I also think the for him, it would be best to ride with his instinct and for fun. He will certainly win more that way, although he will come 2nd same often. He should leave the thinking on his DS, and that only as far as the fundamental tactics are concerned.

Let's hope, he will get better till sunday, because as I have read about his injuries, the cobbles of P-R will hurt the hip like hell. Although, it is a little suspicious, that went public with it. It smells with some further mind games.

To the bolded......Why bring that into it?

 

[dick the quick]

C'mon guys, please don't discuss here the issues which have nothing to do with the professional road cycling.

To sum up what have been said above:

1. Sagan is already a great rider, in terms of talent, results/palmares, entertainment he gives to the spectators etc.
2. His wins are mostly driven by his physical capabilities (strength, endurance) than his tactical skills, smartness etc.
3. Still, a win is a win - and on that field, he's hardly comparable to any other contemporary rider.
4. And that has nothing do to with his intellectual capacity - he is just a great rider, regardless of what is his IQ (I mean: it could be either 60 or 260 - in each case, he is a great rider).
4. His father is not a professional cyclist - so there is no reason to judge here on his brightness or his any other capacity.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re: Re:

Sagan is immensely talented physically, he has awesome instincts, but when thinking is required, he loses to some of his opponents.
You can't get it all, I guess...

And he became significantly frustrated. Both by opponents and by media.
He needs a big win to get rid of the pressure and to ride "for fun" again.

Hi, exactly. In slovakia, there are rumours, that he's not the brightest, nor his father, ... Somebody has already said it here, you can't get it all. I also think the for him, it would be best to ride with his instinct and for fun. He will certainly win more that way, although he will come 2nd same often. He should leave the thinking on his DS, and that only as far as the fundamental tactics are concerned.

Let's hope, he will get better till sunday, because as I have read about his injuries, the cobbles of P-R will hurt the hip like hell. Although, it is a little suspicious, that went public with it. It smells with some further mind games.

It doesnot matter if he is smart or not. The DS, manager can cover that. What he needs is a team.
Point A to point B - Use team.
Point B to Point C - Use last man
Point C Attack and drop everybody
Point D - Cross the line in first place without crashing
Sky have been doing it for the last 5 years without exerting the brains of the riders. Surely Bora can do it too. Which is why Guimard is considered the greatest DS. Sagan needs a Riis to do the thinking for him.

 

[hrotha]

That's absurd. You need to be smart to make new plans and decisions on the spot when an unexpected situation or opportunity arises during the race. That's why Sky didn't have a very good record in the classics until like a year ago - your approach doesn't work.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Put a QS Train with sagan as leader and it will work. Hell it will work even with a sky classics train as well. If the riders were so intelligent and smart how come they require radio to contact their DS every time there is an incident. Nowadays the decisions are with the backroom staff. Even Cancellara had a team with Devolder, Rast and popo to help out

 

[Screecher]

It´s hard being a Sagan fan. To a point where you don´t want to be one because he always disappoints you. And it´s not like he didn´t have the form this season.

 

[alspacka]

Re:

It´s hard being a Sagan fan. To a point where you don´t want to be one because he always disappoints you. And it´s not like he didn´t have the form this season.

He did everything right today. Just extremely unlucky timing with his mechanicals.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

It´s hard being a Sagan fan. To a point where you don´t want to be one because he always disappoints you. And it´s not like he didn´t have the form this season.

He did everything right today. Just extremely unlucky timing with his mechanicals.

Yes, he had some terrible luck today.

It's not just luck though, he's on a weak team. If he had a strong rider type such as Daniel Oss or Stybar or Stuyven to ride with him until the finale things might be a little different.

 

[KGB]

He is fine.Ready to cook very nice dinner in bora kitchen for whole team and having a few beers.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

He is fine.Ready to cook very nice dinner in bora kitchen for whole team and having a few beers.

What better place to let off steam after the race.

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

It´s hard being a Sagan fan. To a point where you don´t want to be one because he always disappoints you. And it´s not like he didn´t have the form this season.

He did everything right today. Just extremely unlucky timing with his mechanicals.

Yes, he had some terrible luck today.

It's not just luck though, he's on a weak team. If he had a strong rider type such as Daniel Oss or Stybar or Stuyven to ride with him until the finale things might be a little different.

his team was very good today. Bodnar was right up there with Oss and Stuyven but they had some bad luck.

Not the race to complain about his team.

 

[Netserk]

He was strong today, his team was very fine, his tactics as well. Just bad luck.

 

[d-s3]

His team was ok today.
And he was positioning himself well today (what can't be said about previous races this season).
For once, it was pure bad luck.

 

[Keram]

There were moments today when I thought "man he is on the mission". Well positioned. He was finally on his usual attacking mode and didnt played mind games. But horrible luck once again this spring. But I didnt expected he would crack so badly at Carrefour though. I dont think he would win today. He miss something to win Roubaix. Ronde is better suited to him. I hope he wont ride AGR. He need to rest both physically and mentally.

 

[hulkhogansknees]

Re:

There were moments today when I thought "man he is on the mission". Well positioned. He was finally on his usual attacking mode and didnt played mind games. But horrible luck once again this spring. But I didnt expected he would crack so badly at Carrefour though. I dont think he would win today. He miss something to win Roubaix. Ronde is better suited to him. I hope he wont ride AGR. He need to rest both physically and mentally.

Yeah, when I saw him always being near the front before Arenberg, I thought he was gonna do something big today and the move with Oss, Bodnar and Stuyven seemed really promising.
But his punctures happened at the absolute worst times.
And in the end I think he simply gave up.
He did great, just very bad luck and you can't win Paris-Roubaix without a bit of luck.

 

[tobydawq]

It was incredible that he twice managed to get away from his biggest rivals on the flat. Normally they are all glued to his wheel so it normally never happens and in both instances I thought he would ride away with it (although the first time was from very far out). And then to puncture both times. That is beyond the normal realms of the term unlucky.

He has confirmed that he is done for now and will - as usual - come back in California before Tour des Suisse and France.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

It was incredible that he twice managed to get away from his biggest rivals on the flat. Normally they are all glued to his wheel so it normally never happens and in both instances I thought he would ride away with it (although the first time was from very far out). And then to puncture both times. That is beyond the normal realms of the term unlucky.

He has confirmed that he is done for now and will - as usual - come back in California before Tour des Suisse and France.

I guess, at least while he is riding for Specialized he's always going to be doing California. Which means we may never get to see him tearing up the Giro in his career.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

It was incredible that he twice managed to get away from his biggest rivals on the flat. Normally they are all glued to his wheel so it normally never happens and in both instances I thought he would ride away with it (although the first time was from very far out). And then to puncture both times. That is beyond the normal realms of the term unlucky.

He has confirmed that he is done for now and will - as usual - come back in California before Tour des Suisse and France.

I guess, at least while he is riding for Specialized he's always going to be doing California. Which means we may never get to see him tearing up the Giro in his career.

Well, the Giro's place on the calendar isn't particularly good in relation to combining it with the cobbled classics either. So, you may be right, which would be a huge shame.

 

[luckyboy]

His team was good. Saramotins, Burghardt, Bodnar are all capable here. If there was the usual larger-sized breakaway he could have another guy up the road in the final. Punctures are bad luck obviously.