Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[Netserk]

Yeah, no.

 

[loge1884]

Bora announced the Peter's support team for RvV:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bora-hansgrohe-name-team-to-back-peter-sagan-at-tour-of-flanders/

Oss and Burghardt will perhaps be his most valuable mates ... Bodnar could perhaps power if something happens early on ... personally I would rather have chosen Rudi Selig or Benedetti instead of the elder brother, but maybe the family ties give some marginal gains ...

 

[tomorrow]

Re:

Bora announced the Peter's support team for RvV:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bora-hansgrohe-name-team-to-back-peter-sagan-at-tour-of-flanders/

Oss and Burghardt will perhaps be his most valuable mates ... Bodnar could perhaps power if something happens early on ... personally I would rather have chosen Rudi Selig or Benedetti instead of the elder brother, but maybe the family ties give some marginal gains ...

Well, I wouldn't say it's family ties per say, but the mutual psychological effect they have on each other. Somehow they both perform better. And as Juraj is used early in the race, which is mostly flat, than perfomance boost has more weight than actual abilities of Selig o Benedetti.

 

[portugal11]

unfortunately for him, the cobbled classics aren't so controlled as the ardennes. He really lacks the engine and a good team to control the race for him. still looking good for paris roubaix

 

[trucido]

Can't wait to see how many times he punctures in P-R due to riding the cobbles with a "lack of confidence".

 

[Keram]

As usual in Ronde thread Sagan is again tactically inept He did not do more mistakes than Vanmarcke Gva or Benoot. QS again schooled them big time and Rouibax wont be different. Sagan only mistake besides when he missed decisive attack as any other contender was that he was too strong on Paterberg. If Vanmarcke and Bennot sticked to his wheel they would have some chance against Terpstra but Sagan is quite a poor roleur comparing to Terpatra or other classic men. But he tried at least.

 

[alspacka]

Re:

As usual in Ronde thread Sagan is again tactically inept He did not do more mistakes than Vanmarcke Gva or Benoot. QS again schooled them big time and Rouibax wont be different. Sagan only mistake besides when he missed decisive attack as any other contender was that he was too strong on Paterberg. If Vanmarcke and Bennot sticked to his wheel they would have some chance against Terpstra but Sagan is quite a poor roleur comparing to Terpatra or other classic men. But he tried at least.

It's hard to see what he could do different, if he goes with Terpstra and Nibali there's no way Niki continues riding and then Sagan would be criticised for sure. Only thing I'd suggest is that Oss should not have been pacemaking, maybe he could've helped Roelandts keep Terpstra on a leash.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Sagan is overrated in these kind of races.

He's explosive, but cannot hold a gap. So then it's hard to win. He had one year where he did hold the gap. But now seems to have lost even that quality again

 

[Keram]

Re:

Sagan is overrated in these kind of races.

He's explosive, but cannot hold a gap. So then it's hard to win. He had one year where he did hold the gap. But now seems to have lost even that quality again

He maybe should try ardennes insted of cobbles than. But yeah. He is quite poor roleur and in small groups nobody wants to collaborate with him. Almost impossible for him to win

 

[Gigs_98]

Yeah it's just super difficult to ride against Quickstep. If Sagan follows the move the Terpstra stops working, if Sagan himself attacks Quickstep will counter and then refuse to work. Sagan either has to be strong enough to just drop everyone or a Quickstep rider who attack with him has to be so strong that he fancies his chances against Sagan. You know, Boonen in his prime definitely hadn't refused to work with Sagan as he would have had a good chance to win. If Sagan rides to the Kwaremont together with Stybar, Stybar won't expect to have a big chance if he works as much as Sagan. And even if he had a decent chance QS chances would probably still be better if he sits on his wheel as there are still guys like Gilbert and Terpstra in the team who in a 1 on 1 against any rider in the peloton definitely have a better chance than Stybar against Sagan.

Imo Sagan only made one big mistake, which was not putting the hammer down right at the beginning of the Kwaremont. Remember how close Cancellara came to him in 2016 despite being far down at the beginning of the climb? Sagan only really went all out on the last few meters of the Paterberg and that way you might gap the rest of your group, but you can't catch the rider in front. Tbf catching Terpstra would have been close to impssbile anyway, but that way it at least could have gotten closer.

 

[Keram]

Imo for Roubaix Bora should be more offensive than cotrolling the race. Bodnar, Burghardt and Oss are more suited to Roubaix than Ronde. Maybe Burghardt or Bodnar should try some early attack. Would be good if Oss race was similar as last year. Easier to said than did of course.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

Sagan is overrated in these kind of races.

He's explosive, but cannot hold a gap. So then it's hard to win. He had one year where he did hold the gap. But now seems to have lost even that quality again

He maybe should try ardennes insted of cobbles than. But yeah. He is quite poor roleur and in small groups nobody wants to collaborate with him. Almost impossible for him to win

This I said three years ago. Ardenas are much better for him.

 

[Flamin]

Yeah it's just super difficult to ride against Quickstep. If Sagan follows the move the Terpstra stops working, if Sagan himself attacks Quickstep will counter and then refuse to work. Sagan either has to be strong enough to just drop everyone or a Quickstep rider who attack with him has to be so strong that he fancies his chances against Sagan. You know, Boonen in his prime definitely hadn't refused to work with Sagan as he would have had a good chance to win. If Sagan rides to the Kwaremont together with Stybar, Stybar won't expect to have a big chance if he works as much as Sagan. And even if he had a decent chance QS chances would probably still be better if he sits on his wheel as there are still guys like Gilbert and Terpstra in the team who in a 1 on 1 against any rider in the peloton definitely have a better chance than Stybar against Sagan.

Imo Sagan only made one big mistake, which was not putting the hammer down right at the beginning of the Kwaremont. Remember how close Cancellara came to him in 2016 despite being far down at the beginning of the climb? Sagan only really went all out on the last few meters of the Paterberg and that way you might gap the rest of your group, but you can't catch the rider in front. Tbf catching Terpstra would have been close to impssbile anyway, but that way it at least could have gotten closer.

I guess he simply didnt have the legs to make a genuine selection on Kwaremont so decided to bank on the Paterberg, which of course suits him the best.

Kwaremont was much more a hill for Cancellara and Sagan was still more or less within striking distance at that point. Terpstra had 40" or so at the base.

The "mistake" was when Terpstra got a gap (race was over from there), but Terpstra and QS were just too strong so nobody can really be blamed imo.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Sagan is overrated in these kind of races.

He's explosive, but cannot hold a gap. So then it's hard to win. He had one year where he did hold the gap. But now seems to have lost even that quality again

He maybe should try ardennes insted of cobbles than. But yeah. He is quite poor roleur and in small groups nobody wants to collaborate with him. Almost impossible for him to win

This I said three years ago. Ardenas are much better for him.

Only Amstel. Other two he can not win, he would need to shred at least 5 kilos for that.

 

[Blanco]

Re:

As usual in Ronde thread Sagan is again tactically inept He did not do more mistakes than Vanmarcke Gva or Benoot. QS again schooled them big time and Rouibax wont be different. Sagan only mistake besides when he missed decisive attack as any other contender was that he was too strong on Paterberg. If Vanmarcke and Bennot sticked to his wheel they would have some chance against Terpstra but Sagan is quite a poor roleur comparing to Terpatra or other classic men. But he tried at least.

He didn't seem like a poor roleur against Cancellara two years ago...

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

Sagan is overrated in these kind of races.

He's explosive, but cannot hold a gap. So then it's hard to win. He had one year where he did hold the gap. But now seems to have lost even that quality again

Anticipating the last sequence (Oude Kwaremont - Paterberg) is the winning formula these past few years.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

Sagan is overrated in these kind of races.

He's explosive, but cannot hold a gap. So then it's hard to win. He had one year where he did hold the gap. But now seems to have lost even that quality again

He maybe should try ardennes insted of cobbles than. But yeah. He is quite poor roleur and in small groups nobody wants to collaborate with him. Almost impossible for him to win

This I said three years ago. Ardenas are much better for him.

Only Amstel. Other two he can not win, he would need to shred at least 5 kilos for that.

When I am late in the work I often watch You tubes with his best performances.

I still consider his win in Brabentse Pijl his best performance ( in par with rvv 2016) Ok this is not the best race but he was so *** good in those hills. He was one two levels better then Gilbert , GVA) and he was so young.

I did not think the cobbles was the right decision . Especially in 2014 2015 he was really bad on cobbles.
But 2016 proved me wrong. Thanks God.


We probably will never know. He will be pushing the cobbles till the end of his career.

I will pray that somehow he will win PR and then he can probably try one or to year his chances in Ardennes.


But it would be probably the same with ardennes. They would be raced different way , but they are really much easier to control.

I stated few days ago that he will win the AGR with finger in his ass and I am really looking forward to that race.

 

[SKSemtex]

Some people say he is not good rouler but when was the last time somebody cooperate with him when he made the selection.
Probably TDF 2016 with Froome in echelon stage. He was pretty damn good rouler that day.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Sagan is overrated in these kind of races.

He's explosive, but cannot hold a gap. So then it's hard to win. He had one year where he did hold the gap. But now seems to have lost even that quality again

Pretty much. He did it in Flanders 2016, but in 2016-2017 he was also better than this. Quite a lot actually - I don't know whats wrong with him this year.

Some people say he is not good rouler but when was the last time somebody cooperate with him when he made the selection.
Probably TDF 2016 with Froome in echelon stage. He was pretty damn good rouler that day.

Yeah, but that was 2 years ago and a very easy stage, relatively, up until that point. In this scenario, in 2018, there's no chance he is remotely close to hold that gap to the group. Mads Pedersen, the 21 year old dude who had spent lots of time in the break, was better after Paterberg.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Sagan is overrated in these kind of races.

He's explosive, but cannot hold a gap. So then it's hard to win. He had one year where he did hold the gap. But now seems to have lost even that quality again

He maybe should try ardennes insted of cobbles than. But yeah. He is quite poor roleur and in small groups nobody wants to collaborate with him. Almost impossible for him to win

This I said three years ago. Ardenas are much better for him.

Only Amstel. Other two he can not win, he would need to shred at least 5 kilos for that.

Amstel maybe. However for Fleche Wallone and LBL he needs to wait until Valverde retires and even then it's unlikely unless he sheds several kilos and starts climbing better.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

Sagan is overrated in these kind of races.

He's explosive, but cannot hold a gap. So then it's hard to win. He had one year where he did hold the gap. But now seems to have lost even that quality again

Pretty much. He did it in Flanders 2016, but in 2016-2017 he was also better than this. Quite a lot actually - I don't know whats wrong with him this year.

Some people say he is not good rouler but when was the last time somebody cooperate with him when he made the selection.
Probably TDF 2016 with Froome in echelon stage. He was pretty damn good rouler that day.

Yeah, but that was 2 years ago and a very easy stage, relatively, up until that point. In this scenario, in 2018, there's no chance he is remotely close to hold that gap to the group. Mads Pedersen, the 21 year old dude who had spent lots of time in the break, was better after Paterberg.

As I said in Petersen thread it is very very questionable quote. We will never know.
If you are on Sagan place would you ride for second or wait for group that should be strong and dedicated and you can catch definitely Pedersen and probably Terpstra?
It was correct decision unfortunately that group was definitely undedicated and definitely dead with even dead weight Gilbert, Styber). The decision turned out to be wrong.

 

[tomorrow]

Re:

Imo for Roubaix Bora should be more offensive than cotrolling the race. Bodnar, Burghardt and Oss are more suited to Roubaix than Ronde. Maybe Burghardt or Bodnar should try some early attack. Would be good if Oss race was similar as last year. Easier to said than did of course.

I hope so too. But for Sagan to win, it must come to a sprint, he won't win solo this year, that's for sure. The more I see, the more I start to think, that for some reason he really is targeting Innsbruck.

 

[deneb]

Re: Re:

Sagan is overrated in these kind of races.

He's explosive, but cannot hold a gap. So then it's hard to win. He had one year where he did hold the gap. But now seems to have lost even that quality again

He maybe should try ardennes insted of cobbles than. But yeah. He is quite poor roleur and in small groups nobody wants to collaborate with him. Almost impossible for him to win

This I said three years ago. Ardenas are much better for him.

Only Amstel. Other two he can not win, he would need to shred at least 5 kilos for that.

Last year Matthews finished 4th in LBL, I think Sagan can win it

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Sagan is overrated in these kind of races.

He's explosive, but cannot hold a gap. So then it's hard to win. He had one year where he did hold the gap. But now seems to have lost even that quality again

He maybe should try ardennes insted of cobbles than. But yeah. He is quite poor roleur and in small groups nobody wants to collaborate with him. Almost impossible for him to win

This I said three years ago. Ardenas are much better for him.

Only Amstel. Other two he can not win, he would need to shred at least 5 kilos for that.

Amstel maybe. However for Fleche Wallone and LBL he needs to wait until Valverde retires and even then it's unlikely unless he sheds several kilos and starts climbing better.

Matthews was 4th in LBL last year. If it's raced passively, no reason for Sagan to not be up there.

 

[hrotha]

These days Sagan is more interested in whining about how other riders will make it harder for him, instead of focusing on how to overcome the obstacle that comes naturally with being a RvV and 3xWC winner. He's wrong to ride conservatively - that only ensures that there'll be outsiders at the finale who might surprise him.

Regardless, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to say it's almost impossible to win the one monument he's actually managed to win.