Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[tobydawq]

Re:

He tried but didn't manage to get into the break on Sunday stage. His own words.

Well, that was pretty obvious if you watched the stage...

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

He tried but didn't manage to get into the break on Sunday stage. His own words.

Well, that was pretty obvious if you watched the stage...

Yeah, and? That's what I've just said. Useless post.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

He tried but didn't manage to get into the break on Sunday stage. His own words.

Well, that was pretty obvious if you watched the stage...

Yeah, and? That's what I've just said. Useless post.

More useless than your response?

Why write "His own words" if it's your own observation?

 

[del1962]

Sagan calls on CPA to take action over extreme heat, what action does he want?

 

[Valanga]

Re:

Sagan calls on CPA to take action over extreme heat, what action does he want?

- Start early in the morning? Start at 7, finish at ~12. Not good for the couch peloton though.
- Shorten the stage to Valloire, so you can actually end that marathon stage at 12. (skip the Col de Vars and go straight from Embrun to Guillestre and the Izoard)
- Increase time limit
- More water bottles/ice from the neutral motorcycles?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Sagan calls on CPA to take action over extreme heat, what action does he want?

- Start early in the morning? Start at 7, finish at ~12. Not good for the couch peloton though.
- Shorten the stage to Valloire, so you can actually end that marathon stage at 12. (skip the Col de Vars and go straight from Embrun to Guillestre and the Izoard)
- Increase time limit
- More water bottles/ice from the neutral motorcycles?

The last two of those make sense. But the first two are not really fair on the riders who perform better in heat relatively to others. You wouldn't change a classics course because of a strong cross wind or cold conditions, which are more potentially dangerous than heat, - so why change the course or timings of the Tour?

The heat is more about comfort than a safety issue, given the support the riders have on the road these days. So if you don't like it; don't choose to ride in France in July.

 

[gerundium]

Re: Re:

Sagan calls on CPA to take action over extreme heat, what action does he want?

- Start early in the morning? Start at 7, finish at ~12. Not good for the couch peloton though.
- Shorten the stage to Valloire, so you can actually end that marathon stage at 12. (skip the Col de Vars and go straight from Embrun to Guillestre and the Izoard)
- Increase time limit
- More water bottles/ice from the neutral motorcycles?

The last two of those make sense. But the first two are not really fair on the riders who perform better in heat relatively to others. You wouldn't change a classics course because of a strong cross wind or cold conditions, which are more potentially dangerous than heat, - so why change the course or timings of the Tour?

The heat is more about comfort than a safety issue, given the support the riders have on the road these days. So if you don't like it; don't choose to ride in France in July.

This is just plain false, riding long climbs in very hot weather is a definitive safety issue. Teams employ excellent mitigation strategies, but i bet you riders are getting off their bikes with highly dangerous core temperature values. We don't see dramatic falling-off-your bike heat strokes, but these guys are riding a thin edge.

 

[Valanga]

Re: Re:

Sagan calls on CPA to take action over extreme heat, what action does he want?

- Start early in the morning? Start at 7, finish at ~12. Not good for the couch peloton though.
- Shorten the stage to Valloire, so you can actually end that marathon stage at 12. (skip the Col de Vars and go straight from Embrun to Guillestre and the Izoard)
- Increase time limit
- More water bottles/ice from the neutral motorcycles?

The last two of those make sense. But the first two are not really fair on the riders who perform better in heat relatively to others. You wouldn't change a classics course because of a strong cross wind or cold conditions, which are more potentially dangerous than heat, - so why change the course or timings of the Tour?

The heat is more about comfort than a safety issue, given the support the riders have on the road these days. So if you don't like it; don't choose to ride in France in July.

I'm not an expert, but it doesn't sound healthy to do such efforts in +40. (or +38, or 35?). If the experts agree, then it is a safety issue and they should do something about it.
There is a bad weather protocol (which, afaik, doesn't say anything about heat though), and races do get cancelled or altered because of that.

 

[F_Cance]

"extreme weather protocol" it is

1. Freezing rain
2. Snow accumulation on the road
3. Strong winds
4. Extreme temperatures
5. Poor visibility
6. Air pollution

 

[Valanga]

Re:

"extreme weather protocol" it is

1. Freezing rain
2. Snow accumulation on the road
3. Strong winds
4. Extreme temperatures
5. Poor visibility
6. Air pollution

You're right, I just looked it up as well.

https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/rules-and-regulations/part-ii-road/extreme-weather-protocol.pdf?sfvrsn=244a2706_8

Now what "extreme temperatures" actually means is up to the stakeholders to decide it seems.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Sagan calls on CPA to take action over extreme heat, what action does he want?

- Start early in the morning? Start at 7, finish at ~12. Not good for the couch peloton though.
- Shorten the stage to Valloire, so you can actually end that marathon stage at 12. (skip the Col de Vars and go straight from Embrun to Guillestre and the Izoard)
- Increase time limit
- More water bottles/ice from the neutral motorcycles?

The last two of those make sense. But the first two are not really fair on the riders who perform better in heat relatively to others. You wouldn't change a classics course because of a strong cross wind or cold conditions, which are more potentially dangerous than heat, - so why change the course or timings of the Tour?

The heat is more about comfort than a safety issue, given the support the riders have on the road these days. So if you don't like it; don't choose to ride in France in July.

This is just plain false, riding long climbs in very hot weather is a definitive safety issue. Teams employ excellent mitigation strategies, but i bet you riders are getting off their bikes with highly dangerous core temperature values. We don't see dramatic falling-off-your bike heat strokes, but these guys are riding a thin edge.

'Highly dangerous core temperature values? What ridiculous hyperbole.

Fact is, the race shouldn't be tailored to the needs of a few lame northern and eastern europeans who can't handle it when it gets above 30C.

 

[Red Rick]

Hyperthermia is absolutely no joke

 

[boneshaker]

Re: Re:

'Highly dangerous core temperature values? What ridiculous hyperbole.

Fact is, the race shouldn't be tailored to the needs of a few lame northern and eastern europeans who can't handle it when it gets above 30C.

Of course. However the complaint was made by a central european who is the world champion from Doha.

 

[saganftw]

Re: Re:

Sagan calls on CPA to take action over extreme heat, what action does he want?

- Start early in the morning? Start at 7, finish at ~12. Not good for the couch peloton though.
- Shorten the stage to Valloire, so you can actually end that marathon stage at 12. (skip the Col de Vars and go straight from Embrun to Guillestre and the Izoard)
- Increase time limit
- More water bottles/ice from the neutral motorcycles?

The last two of those make sense. But the first two are not really fair on the riders who perform better in heat relatively to others. You wouldn't change a classics course because of a strong cross wind or cold conditions, which are more potentially dangerous than heat, - so why change the course or timings of the Tour?

The heat is more about comfort than a safety issue, given the support the riders have on the road these days. So if you don't like it; don't choose to ride in France in July.

This is just plain false, riding long climbs in very hot weather is a definitive safety issue. Teams employ excellent mitigation strategies, but i bet you riders are getting off their bikes with highly dangerous core temperature values. We don't see dramatic falling-off-your bike heat strokes, but these guys are riding a thin edge.

'Highly dangerous core temperature values? What ridiculous hyperbole.

Fact is, the race shouldn't be tailored to the needs of a few lame northern and eastern europeans who can't handle it when it gets above 30C.

fact is it was nearing 40C yesterday...and i dont need to explain how direct sun bounces of asphalt roads to create a layer of extremely hot air, i happen to actually like extremely hot temperatures, i used to go cycling after lunch hours when the temperatures are the highest but i have friends who can barely handle 35C losers

anyway football games have mandatory water breaks, if you work in extremely hot weather you have right to get water breaks by law so cycling isnt different (obviously you cant stop the race) but one day its gonna be perfect storm of high temperature + slow stage and its gonna be mayhem out there

 

[Keram]

Now when he is sole leader in green jerseys I am curious what attitude he will have about TDF. I think this was his big career goal to set this record. I read yesterday that Buchmann wants more domestiques for himself. If that is true I doubt they will bring Ackermann to the Tour. Or maybe they will bring Ackermann, Sagan as his lead-out and then climbing squad. But imho Sagan will not contest green. Or he will skip Tour and will ride Giro. But Specialized won´t be glad to hear that :lol:

 

[Salvarani]

Re:

Now when he is sole leader in green jerseys I am curious what attitude he will have about TDF. I think this was his big career goal to set this record. I read yesterday that Buchmann wants more domestiques for himself. If that is true I doubt they will bring Ackermann to the Tour. Or maybe they will bring Ackermann, Sagan as his lead-out and then climbing squad. But imho Sagan will not contest green. Or he will skip Tour and will ride Giro. But Specialized won´t be glad to hear that :lol:

Sagan only really need Oss and maybe Burghardt. He dont need a sprint train.

Buchmann with Konrad, Muhlberger and one more climbing dom should be more than enough. Another rouler to complete the squad.


But yeah, what they do with Ackermann is interesting. He for sure also wants to ride the Tour at some point.

 

[Blanco]

He should definitely try Giro, although it's a bit difficult because of the classics.

 

[Nirvana]

If he wants he's still young enough to try for five points jersey at the Giro and Vuelta (in both the current record is four) and have the record in all the GTs.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

Hyperthermia is absolutely no joke

I can't argue with that, but how many guys had heat stroke on that day?

 

[jmdirt]

I wonder what PS (and I suppose his sponsors) want next. Another green jersey doesn't seem 'exciting'.

Now, I would love to see a few other guys step up and make the completion exciting. Even if PS wins another, a five rider battle would be cool!

 

[hrotha]

I've seen some folks going all "Ewan was the best sprinter and he didn't win the green jersey, they should change the rules because they favour Sagan too much".

Like how many times were the rules of the green jersey changed specifically to handicap Sagan? :lol:

 

[Finn84]

While Sagan had not raced in the Tour yet when the change was made, I feel that the change which gave huge point haul for intermediate sprint works much for his favour.

 

[Scarponi]

Re:

I wonder what PS (and I suppose his sponsors) want next. Another green jersey doesn't seem 'exciting'.

Now, I would love to see a few other guys step up and make the completion exciting. Even if PS wins another, a five rider battle would be cool!

He needs to set a record like 10 greens that will never be broken

 

[krakenKE]

Re:

While Sagan had not raced in the Tour yet when the change was made, I feel that the change which gave huge point haul for intermediate sprint works much for his favour.

I agree. If they combined new system for finish points (50-30-20, etc.) with old system for intermediate sprints (6-4-2, 2 times in a stage) he would most likely not win the green. With current system I do not see any rider except of Van Aert or MVdP who can contest for the green if Sagan targets it.

 

[hrotha]

Re:

While Sagan had not raced in the Tour yet when the change was made, I feel that the change which gave huge point haul for intermediate sprint works much for his favour.

I don't see it. It's another opportunity for pure sprinters to set up a pure sprint and bag more points than Sagan. It's not Sagan's fault if his potential rivals decide not to contest them.