Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[Leinster]

Re:

There are UCI points for the points competition already (but not many compared to the GC).

The prize money is a lot better comparatively- 15k EU for 2nd place

The points competition since it was changed to award a lot of points for the intermediate sprints (around the start of the decade) has become a bit silly. Inevitably the meaningful points are taken by the break and so you end up with a few sprinters "fighting" for effectively 1 or 2 pts. So a complete waste of time unless you are the only points contender there. If there is a proper points contest then on the more selective stages each team just ends up chasing down the opposition guy which is often what happened this year with Bora and Sunweb. Matthews ended up dropping himself out of the competition in order to get in a break so he could try and win a stage.

I thought it was a much more interesting competition when the vast majority of points were at the stage finish

The old system, with 3 separate intermediate sprints and points for the first 3 placings at each, meant that the break hoovered up all the points before the peloton ever got there. There was no intermediate sprinting.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re: Re:

There are UCI points for the points competition already (but not many compared to the GC).

The prize money is a lot better comparatively- 15k EU for 2nd place

The points competition since it was changed to award a lot of points for the intermediate sprints (around the start of the decade) has become a bit silly. Inevitably the meaningful points are taken by the break and so you end up with a few sprinters "fighting" for effectively 1 or 2 pts. So a complete waste of time unless you are the only points contender there. If there is a proper points contest then on the more selective stages each team just ends up chasing down the opposition guy which is often what happened this year with Bora and Sunweb. Matthews ended up dropping himself out of the competition in order to get in a break so he could try and win a stage.

I thought it was a much more interesting competition when the vast majority of points were at the stage finish

The old system, with 3 separate intermediate sprints and points for the first 3 placings at each, meant that the break hoovered up all the points before the peloton ever got there. There was no intermediate sprinting.

Exactly. The jersey was decided by the stage finishes and I preferred it that way. There was no such thing as riders opting not to contest the points jersey

 

[Nirvana]

In the 90s and early 00s when there were three sprints with points available only for the first three riders wasn't rare to see the break not allowed to go until after the first one and catched before the last, with bonus seconds up for grabs at every sprint and an almost always pan flat first week the sprinters had also the possibility to grab the yellow jersey as incentive to fight in intermediate sprints.

 

[sprints n stones]

Race programme before Worlds: August - Hamburg, 25th, September - Montreal 13th, Quebec 15th, Primus Classic 21st, Gooikse Pijl 22nd. The two Belgian races seem to be televised by Eurosport as well.

 

[tobydawq]

I just saw that he is currently sitting 11th in the CQ rankings. That might be the first time since 2011 that he is outside the top 10.

He looked very good in Hamburg, though, and was very unfortunate in the sprint. He looks set for the Canadian double and a fourth Worlds seems increasingly realistic.

 

[Blanco]

Peter the Great looks just fine for the Worlds.
If it comes down to sprint at Montreal tomorrow, he's going to win.

 

[Screecher]

Worst season since.... 2010, maybe 2011? His only real highlight this year is a stage and a green jersey at the TdF. I'm hoping he can win a big race again but the new generation of riders is really strong and he's only going to have it harder.

 

[tobydawq]

Worst season since.... 2010, maybe 2011? His only real highlight this year is a stage and a green jersey at the TdF. I'm hoping he can win a big race again but the new generation of riders is really strong and he's only going to have it harder.

I think he was the strongest rider today, though, and that is very encouraging for next year. He made a terrible decision by not thinking that moves on the third last lap could be too dangerous and therefore did not position himself well on the hill where MvdP went.

But then he absolutely killed the rest and put in half a minute on them on the last lap. Probably his best physical performance of the year.

 

[Screecher]

I think he was the strongest rider today, though, and that is very encouraging for next year. He made a terrible decision by not thinking that moves on the third last lap could be too dangerous and therefore did not position himself well on the hill where MvdP went.

But then he absolutely killed the rest and put in half a minute on them on the last lap. Probably his best physical performance of the year.

That's nice and all but it doesn't mean much when he can't translate it to a victory. At this stage of his career it isn't about placings, it's all about victories.

 

[roundabout]

That's nice and all but it doesn't mean much when he can't translate it to a victory. At this stage of his career it isn't about placings, it's all about victories.

For me at means that the top level is still there, so it's a good sign even if it wasn't a win

 

[tobydawq]

That's nice and all but it doesn't mean much when he can't translate it to a victory. At this stage of his career it isn't about placings, it's all about victories.

Obviously, and if yoo took the time to read what I wrote I did say that "it was very encouraging for next year" rather than celebrate the result today.

It shows that he can get back to being the best in the classics, and I had feared that those days were over.

 

[Simurgh]

That's nice and all but it doesn't mean much when he can't translate it to a victory. At this stage of his career it isn't about placings, it's all about victories.

Don't be too harsh on him though. Sagan is always the one everyone else watch and will never let go. In every other race he has decent support at least, when his competitors attack. In WC like today he has to rely on other countries acting as (involuntary) domestiques for him to do the dirty work. He is not an alien after all.

 

[yaco]

Sagan is reluctant to attack because other riders usually refuse to work with him BUT he made a big mistake in not following MVDP, because he would have worked with Sagan.

 

[Salvarani]

This guy complains every time. Dont bother with him. He just being plain stupid every time he opens his mouth.

 

[tomorrow]

This guy complains every time. Dont bother with him. He just being plain stupid every time he opens his mouth.

Who do you mean? certainly not sagan, as he clearly stated, that in the end, he made a mistake. He chose not follow mvdp, since belgium and france had quite the numbers still in the group an actually the smart thing to do, but today it was was "special".

 

[Keram]

It seems that he found best shape of this season. Good sign that his days are not over. I am curious how motivated he will be next season. He has not any real season goal besides three spring monuments . With OG and WC RR for climbers as a record holder of TDF green he can go on vacation after Roubaix.

 

[SHAD0W93]

He could give the Giro a try or do Tour-Vuelta combo and points in both. Might as well up his record and get the most points classifications and more stages.

 

[Koronin]

His problem today was thinking in the weather with very few riders left the final break would be pulled back. His form looked like he should be fine next year.

 

[Salvarani]

Who do you mean? certainly not sagan, as he clearly stated, that in the end, he made a mistake. He chose not follow mvdp, since belgium and france had quite the numbers still in the group an actually the smart thing to do, but today it was was "special".

I was talking about the guy in the thread that always slander Sagan after every race.

 

[tobydawq]

Wuhuu, he'll finally do the Giro! The Tour is also on the cards!

Ackermann must be thrilled...

 

[Keram]

Wuhuu, he'll finally do the Giro! The Tour is also on the cards!

Ackermann must be thrilled...

And Bennet needs to leave Bora asap.

 

[krakenKE]

Wuhuu, he'll finally do the Giro! The Tour is also on the cards!

Ackermann must be thrilled...

I already can't wait. Many Slovaks will be in Hungary especially during first 2 stages.

If Sagan wants to ride ORR I won't be surprised if he goes to the Tour just in the role of superdomestique for Ackermann and Buchmann. He has the green jersey record, he has won 12 Tour stages, he doesn't need to prove anything there. I also wonder how will his classics schedule look like.

 

[tobydawq]

He is not going to the Tour just to ride around, he never does that in any race outside January.

The last time a rider won the points jersey in both Giro and Tour in the same year was Abdoujaparov in 1994. That would be a pretty cool thing to do.

Regarding classics I would expect maybe Strade and then MSR, E3, GW, Flanders and Roubaix, and no Ardennes.

 

[Nirvana]

As I said this summer I think he'll go to the Giro because Buchmann wants more support and the team want Ackermann at the Tour so no room for his support, if he'll go to the Tour after the Giro will likely be PR and supporting role. Also the press release says a lot with Denk talking about stages and points jersey at the Giro but only "French fans shouldn't worry because will be also there" regarding the Tour.

Anyway he could still opt out the Tour citing fatigue and reschedule like Roglic has done this year if he doesn't want to go in France as support. Cobbles classics + Giro is probably one of the hardest combinations possible, look at Jungels this year that basically disappeared or Trentin in 2016 that said he was dead and needed two months without riding to recover, so he has a very valid excuse.

 

[tomorrow]

I already can't wait. Many Slovaks will be in Hungary especially during first 2 stages.

If Sagan wants to ride ORR I won't be surprised if he goes to the Tour just in the role of superdomestique for Ackermann and Buchmann. He has the green jersey record, he has won 12 Tour stages, he doesn't need to prove anything there. I also wonder how will his classics schedule look like.

god why would you think he can do anything in ORR? It will be even less suitable to him than RIO