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Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

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Really Impressive Sagan the past two days- remains me of what he did in the Tour of Suisse a couple years ago.
This kind of performance keeps me thinking if he should be pursuing sprints & classics at all, since he is way more versatile type of rider to get framed exclusively for those kind of races- remember back in the Liquigas days when the world learnt about him - it was Paris-Nice when he won 2 stages- not as a pure sprinter, but as a stage hunter instigator- therefore his talents should be directed towards that approach, instead of trying to beat Cav, Kittel, Kristoff,etc.

again- he's MORE VERSATILE
 
His performance reminded me a bit of the Tour of Poland in 2011. In that race, Dan Martin eventually rode him off his wheel on the finishing climb, but Sagan limited his losses and won on bonus seconds on the next stage. Of course, this was a much more impressive ride on a much tougher finish. Martin's problem in 2011 was that the climb wasn't tough enough. If it had been like this Sagan would have been screwed. This Sagan was much stronger than the 2011 version.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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AARG
PVR set to record. instead Tennis. No one saw tennis in the schedule but we get tennis. I hate television. Sounds like the last 7 Km was spectacular. I guess I will try U tube
 
Jan 24, 2012
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Master50 said:
AARG
PVR set to record. instead Tennis. No one saw tennis in the schedule but we get tennis. I hate television. Sounds like the last 7 Km was spectacular. I guess I will try U tube

Pretty sure you can just use Amgen's tracker and re-watch the entire stage.
 
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Sciocco said:
Master50 said:
AARG
PVR set to record. instead Tennis. No one saw tennis in the schedule but we get tennis. I hate television. Sounds like the last 7 Km was spectacular. I guess I will try U tube

Pretty sure you can just use Amgen's tracker and re-watch the entire stage.

Yes you can, I just tested it. I had no idea you could do that. This is awesome! Man, I wish other races used this sort of thing.
 
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Bushman said:
Also, his shape has only gotten better since the classics. Next year he will be on fire in the classics.

I'm not sure he will. He always seems to peak around this time of year and then just about carries it into the first couple of weeks of the Tour de France. He really needs to adjust his training to peak a bit earlier - even if it means sacrificing the TdF.

He seems to take two or three months of racing to really get up to speed, so perhaps he should try cyclocross this winter (which he would probably be really good at) and try to get the form he has now during the classics. Then he could even miss the Tour, and try to get a second peak for the Vuelta and World Championships.

Surely that's a better plan at this stage of his career than winning another Green Jersey.
 
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DFA123 said:
Bushman said:
Also, his shape has only gotten better since the classics. Next year he will be on fire in the classics.

I'm not sure he will. He always seems to peak around this time of year and then just about carries it into the first couple of weeks of the Tour de France. He really needs to adjust his training to peak a bit earlier - even if it means sacrificing the TdF.

He seems to take two or three months of racing to really get up to speed, so perhaps he should try cyclocross this winter (which he would probably be really good at) and try to get the form he has now during the classics. Then he could even miss the Tour, and try to get a second peak for the Vuelta and World Championships.

Surely that's a better plan at this stage of his career than winning another Green Jersey.

I think his training changed a lot after switching to Tinkoff-Saxo and he has to get used to it. I think he will definately be stronger next year.
 
Jul 1, 2013
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Vaughters on Sagan via Twitter:

"Observation: Sagan has the capacity to excel in short/medium climbs+TTs. But struggles w +250kms(relatively) Maybe change objective races?"

"The key is to avoid being the next Edvald BH. Incredible talent, but killed his motor trying to be a 250km+ guy."

"Not every talented rider can be good at that distance (if raced at high intensity) no matter how old."

"It's down to ability to metabolize fat for fuel at higher intensities. Multiple advantages over Carbs."
 
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wayahead said:
Vaughters on Sagan via Twitter:

"Observation: Sagan has the capacity to excel in short/medium climbs+TTs. But struggles w +250kms(relatively) Maybe change objective races?"

"The key is to avoid being the next Edvald BH. Incredible talent, but killed his motor trying to be a 250km+ guy."

"Not every talented rider can be good at that distance (if raced at high intensity) no matter how old."

"It's down to ability to metabolize fat for fuel at higher intensities. Multiple advantages over Carbs."

What a load of rubbish. Sagan of 2013 was one of the very best in the world at races over 250km. Even this year - poor by his standards - he looked strong at Milan Sanremo, put in a solid chase after 250km at Flanders and perhaps could have even done something at Roubaix without the mechanical.

If he wasn't good at metabolizing fat at high intensities, he wouldn't have consistently placed highly in monuments. His problems in the last couple of years have been partly tactical, partly because he's been so heavily marked, and partly because of the emergance of faster sprinters that can go the distance.

I'd say it's still odds-on that he'll win a monument one day. He's got three podium finishes in 250km+ races - at MSR, RVV and Amstel Gold - and has finished top 6 in most of the monuments he has entered. Ridiculous to compare him with EBH, whose best monument finish is 10th, and who rarely finished inside the top 20.
 
Great stuff from Peter. Here's some wisdom from Olega:

Daniel Friebe @friebos · 9h 9 hours ago
Tinkov to @cirogazzetta: 'If I can find a way to do it legally, I'd like to cut Sagan's salary."

and about his love of cycling:

Daniel Friebe @friebos · 9h 9 hours ago
Lastly from Tinkov: 'I don't know how long I'll stay in cycling. This isn't business, it's a toy. And kids can lose interest in their toys."
 
Jul 19, 2010
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Rollthedice said:
Great stuff from Peter. Here's some wisdom from Olega:

Daniel Friebe @friebos · 9h 9 hours ago
Tinkov to @cirogazzetta: 'If I can find a way to do it legally, I'd like to cut Sagan's salary."

and about his love of cycling:

Daniel Friebe @friebos · 9h 9 hours ago
Lastly from Tinkov: 'I don't know how long I'll stay in cycling. This isn't business, it's a toy. And kids can lose interest in their toys."

he is a total deuce bag!

Great ride by Sagan. Won GC among the climbers. Congrats!! LOL. He has the raw brute strength, maybe if he is skinny like Froome, he can win GT some day or week long stage races :D
 
Aug 31, 2012
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I'm happy for Sagan. What a rider.

Rollthedice said:
Great stuff from Peter. Here's some wisdom from Olega:

Daniel Friebe @friebos · 9h 9 hours ago
Tinkov to @cirogazzetta: 'If I can find a way to do it legally, I'd like to cut Sagan's salary."

and about his love of cycling:

Daniel Friebe @friebos · 9h 9 hours ago
Lastly from Tinkov: 'I don't know how long I'll stay in cycling. This isn't business, it's a toy. And kids can lose interest in their toys."
4mil/year is just not what Sagan is worth at the moment. It's as simple as that. You need to win big to be worth that amount of money. So he's justified in wanting that.
 
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SeriousSam said:
I'm happy for
4mil/year is just not what Sagan is worth at the moment. It's as simple as that. You need to win big to be worth that amount of money. So he's justified in wanting that.
Winning big does not necessary mean you are worth more money. It's a business and Sagan is arguably amongst Top 5 most popular riders, and sponsors love that.
 
Mar 14, 2009
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Netserk said:
No one forced Oleg to pay him that kind of money...

You are worth (materialistically) whatever you can earn. Sagan got Oleg to pay him big money, so he is worth big money.

Correct! Have to agree with that statement 100%.

And LA is also correct about his value for advertisers. If Tinkov is such a great businessman, he should have no problems monetizing Sagan's value for his and the teams profit. I think Sagan is along with Bert the most marketable and valuable rider in today's peloton.
 
Jul 19, 2010
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SeriousSam said:
I'm happy for Sagan. What a rider.

Rollthedice said:
Great stuff from Peter. Here's some wisdom from Olega:

Daniel Friebe @friebos · 9h 9 hours ago
Tinkov to @cirogazzetta: 'If I can find a way to do it legally, I'd like to cut Sagan's salary."

and about his love of cycling:

Daniel Friebe @friebos · 9h 9 hours ago
Lastly from Tinkov: 'I don't know how long I'll stay in cycling. This isn't business, it's a toy. And kids can lose interest in their toys."
4mil/year is just not what Sagan is worth at the moment. It's as simple as that. You need to win big to be worth that amount of money. So he's justified in wanting that.

You can always not buying sagan though. No one forces him if he thinks Sagan is too expensive. He isn't buying a robot. He is buying human performance. Of course, nothing can predict that Sagan can always win all the time. After all this is a bike racing not cooking pizza :D. Gilbert won practically nothing after he signed w/ BMC. But I didn't hear andy riis *** about Gilbert to the media. That's my problem w/ Olga. He is having a buyer remorse. And the fact he is using twitter to bash his shinny toy publicly makes him a deuce bag. At least Vino has some class to send nasty internal email to the Astana rider w/o revealing what it said. That's how he should deal with rider performance.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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Velonews says Sagan was given a car for winning the race. Is this true? If so, nice prize. And do they ship this to Europe, or just give him a similar model at home, and this one is for a photo op only?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015...nd-to-win-the-amgen-tour-of-california_370623

473774176_670.jpg
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Tinkov has some objectives. Whether that's making money with sponsors or winning races with his toys doesn't really matter. His beliefs about the possible marginal contribution of Peter Sagan towards those objectives were such that the expected marginal contribution was worth at least 4m/year.

Turns out the actual marginal contribution is not worth that much. A gamble gone bad, whether Tinkov was unlucky and it is a shock that Sagan is as poor as he has been, or whether Tinkov's assessment was simply poor and more knowledgeable people saw it coming, who knows. When you're in such a situation, you'd like to make an adjustment. Some contracts in other areas allow for immediate downwards adjustment (or upwards adjustment) when the expected quantity differs from the realised quantity. But it's rather rare, so that usually adjustment happens whenever it's contract renewal time.

Now Tinkov is merely saying the very reasonable thing that if it were possible, he'd like to make that adjustment immediately. Nowt wrong with that.
 
Aug 4, 2010
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SeriousSam said:
Tinkov has some objectives. Whether that's making money with sponsors or winning races with his toys doesn't really matter. His beliefs about the possible marginal contribution of Peter Sagan towards those objectives were such that the expected marginal contribution was worth at least 4m/year.

Turns out the actual marginal contribution is not worth that much. A gamble gone bad, whether Tinkov was unlucky and it is a shock that Sagan is as poor as he has been, or whether Tinkov's assessment was simply poor and more knowledgeable people saw it coming, who knows. When you're in such a situation, you'd like to make an adjustment. Some contracts in other areas allow for immediate downwards adjustment (or upwards adjustment) when the expected quantity differs from the realised quantity. But it's rather rare, so that usually adjustment happens whenever it's contract renewal time.

Now Tinkov is merely saying the very reasonable thing that if it were possible, he'd like to make that adjustment immediately. Nowt wrong with that.
But there you can see how Tinkov doesnt understand cycling.You can not expect to win a major classic from someone.As we know classics are very tough to call and there are more favourites than in GT, also a luck, strategy etc IMO only a tip top classics contender (Boonen, Gilbert,Cancellara,Valverde) is worth that salary.
OK,I know he is also a sprinter but thats not what Tinkov expected, he expected results in monuments.
 

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