Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

Page 93 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jun 8, 2015
306
0
0
Re: Re:

trucido said:
SKSemtex said:
Walter Morgan said:
Bora already has Twhaites, Barta, Selig, Voss, Bauhaus (?), Bennett (?). With 1 or 2 more signs, Bora can give to Sagan a good support. Riders like Bennati, Oss, Navardauskas could be a good fit.[/quote
Add Tony Martin and we have a winning team for spring
Ooops. MARTIN hate cobbles. So we have winning team for Ardenas. Oops Sagan do not ride Ardenas.
Would like to see Oss and Sagan in the same team again.
Yep. Love to see Oss and Sagan on the same team again.
 
Feb 6, 2016
1,213
0
0
Re: Re:

SKSemtex said:
Walter Morgan said:
Bora already has Twhaites, Barta, Selig, Voss, Bauhaus (?), Bennett (?). With 1 or 2 more signs, Bora can give to Sagan a good support. Riders like Bennati, Oss, Navardauskas could be a good fit.
Add Tony Martin and we have a winning team for spring
Ooops. MARTIN hate cobbles. So we have winning team for Ardenas. Oops Sagan do not ride Ardenas.
Martin's been trying to specialise on cobbles all season...
 
Jun 19, 2014
48
0
0
Sagan has won another green jersey, so let's change the system until he is beaten???

This article sounds like that:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/07/news/road/aldag-tours-points-system-tilts-toward-sagan_416258

And here are my thougts about it:

The current intermediate sprint point system was introduced in 2011 and who was the winner of the green jersey? Mark Cavendish! Under previous system he didn't win it even with 6 stage wins in 2009. He also didn't win the green jersey with 5 stage wins in 2010. But with the same stage wins in 2011 and the new point system Cavendish won the green jersey. Fo sure in 2011 no one from Cavendish's team would say it's a bad system.

In 2012 came Sagan, who was very good in this competition, so the system was changed in 2015 and in my opinion quite strongly against Sagan. The 3th place in a flat stage get's only few points (20) compared to the 1th place (50), even it is still a podium. The 4th place (no podium place) gets almost the same points (18) as the last podium place.

And of course there are still voices, that this system favours Sagan? And that it was not possible to beat him because of it? It sounds like, lets change the system, until Sagan is beaten.

This year it was possible to beat him, but he has won it because he was the best. His attack in stage 11 was quite risky regarding green jersey competition and it could have ended quite different and in that case the points difference wouldn't be so big...

Regarding those intermediate sprints before 2011, there were just 6-4-2 points, but as they were 3 times in a stage, it was together 18 points for the winner. With that system there was nothing left for the sprinters after the break, but now they can still get points until the 15th place.

In my opinion the current system is the most "antisagan" ever and this year's profile was really sprinter friendly, but Sagan was despite it still the best.
 
How can anyone say this system favours him? He needs to contest much more stages then a pure sprinter and to get in the breaks to catch points at the intermediates. He needs to work harder then the other sprinters, because he can't win against them on the flat stages.
 
Jun 19, 2014
48
0
0
Re:

carolina said:
How can anyone say this system favours him? He needs to contest much more stages then a pure sprinter and to get in the breaks to catch points at the intermediates. He needs to work harder then the other sprinters, because he can't win against them on the flat stages.
Rolf Aldag - DS from Dimension Data. I really don't like, that this article "pretends" to be objective, but it just ignores many facts.
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,455
3
0
animir said:
Sagan has won another green jersey, so lets change the system until he is beaten???

This article sounds like that:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/07/news/road/aldag-tours-points-system-tilts-toward-sagan_416258

And here are my thougts about it:

The current intermediate sprint point system was introduced in 2011 and who was the winner of the green jersey? Mark Cavendish! Under previous system he didn't win it even with 6 stage wins in 2009. He also didn't win the green jersey with 5 stage wins in 2010. But with the same stage wins in 2011 and the new point system Cavendish won the green jersey. Fo sure in 2011 no one from Cavendish's team would say it's a bad system.

In 2012 came Sagan, who was very good in this competition, so the system was changed in 2015 and in my opinion quite strongly against Sagan. The 3th place in a flat stage get's only few points (20) compared to the 1th place (50), even it is still a podium. The 4th place (no podium place) gets almost the same points (18) as the last podium place.

And of course there are still voices, that this system favours Sagan? And that it was not possible to beat him because of it? It sounds like, lets change the system, until Sagan is beaten.

This year it was possible to beat him, but he has won it because he was the best. His attack in stage 11 was quite risky regarding green jersey competition and it could have ended quite different and in that case the points difference wouldn't be so big...

Regarding those intermediate sprints before 2011, there were just 6-4-2 points, but as they were 3 times in a stage, it was together 18 points for the winner. With that system there was nothing left for the sprinters after the break, but now they can still get points until the 15th place.

In my opinion the current system is the most "antisagan" ever and this year's profile was really sprinter friendly, but Sagan was despite it still the best.
What a pathetic little man Aldag is. The point system heavily favours pure sprinters, Sagan keeps winning it because he's simply a much better cyclist than Cavendish. Nobody is stopping Cav from joining breakaways in (medium-)mountain stages. But we all know pure sprinters aren't real racers. God forbid they actually do something before the final 150 meters.
 
Jun 19, 2014
48
0
0
The current system according to people like Aldag favours Sagan.

So how good is the 3th place in a flat stage?
In the TDF it's difficult even to get into the sprint, so I would say that the 3th place is quite good.
But really? In the green jersey competition in means, that the rider loses more than he gains!!!
He gains 20 points, but loses 30 points to the winner.
And this system of course favours Sagan??? :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
oh yes lets punish a guy who actually does racing and goes into breakaways in favour of someone who sits in the bunch 99% of the race

if you think like this you are not only biased (which i would understand considering Aldag has a sprinter in his team) you are a c*nt
 
Lets do some maths then. Sagan collected 470 points. Mark 291. Sagan took 173 points on itermediates and Cavendish 81. So there is Sagan on 297 points and Cav 210. After 16th Bern stage it would be 267 to 210 in favour of Sagan. It would be decided anyway before 2nd rest day. Seems legit :lol:
 
For me the winner of the green jersey should be a sprinter, but a sprinter who can't only win on panflat stages but also uphill sprints and hilly stages and the sprinter who is best at all that is simply sagan. The green jersey was never meant to be the award for the best sprinter otherwise you could just count the sprints a rider won.
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,455
3
0
Gigs_98 said:
For me the winner of the green jersey should be a sprinter, but a sprinter who can't only win on panflat stages but also uphill sprints and hilly stages and the sprinter who is best at all that is simply sagan. The green jersey was never meant to be the award for the best sprinter otherwise you could just count the sprints a rider won.
I see the green jersey as the most consistent non-GC rider. That's what it should be anyway. The most consistent GC rider already gets the yellow jersey in most cases, so it's not like they're getting screwed over.
 

KGB

Apr 16, 2015
480
0
0
Sagan will take two more and then he will take break during tdf and just concentrating on classics.Well if sponsors will not force him to do_Or just abandon road cycling at all and will do only MTB after this Olympic gold.
 
I think the system is fine as it is. It's great to see Sagan focus on it and has to go in a lot of breaks to win it. If someone like Cavendish wants to win it as it is now, he has to get in breaks as well which is a good thing. And honestly, I think that Cavendish could have won the jersey this year if he wanted to.
 
I hope Bora bring some more riders for Sagan. Currently they only have two or three reliable riders on the northern classics team: Thwaites, Bodnar and Schillinger (the latter especially for Paris-Roubaix). Other riders, like Selig or Voss are not that bad, but they lack a top-notch domestique like Vandenbergh or two decent riders who could be able to help him until the -20 kms. My guess is that Burghardt will be joining the team. With another good rider like Keukeleire/Marcato they would round off a pretty solid team around Sagan.
 

KGB

Apr 16, 2015
480
0
0
Re:

Roku said:
I hope Bora bring some more riders for Sagan. Currently they only have two or three reliable riders on the northern classics team: Thwaites, Bodnar and Schillinger (the latter especially for Paris-Roubaix). Other riders, like Selig or Voss are not that bad, but they lack a top-notch domestique like Vandenbergh or two decent riders who could be able to help him until the -20 kms. My guess is that Burghardt will be joining the team. With another good rider like Keukeleire/Marcato they would round off a pretty solid team around Sagan.
Marcato?Jesus even Juraj Sagan is better then him.
 

KGB

Apr 16, 2015
480
0
0
Re: Re:

jmdirt said:
Lexman said:
jmdirt said:
So can BORA-Specialized support PS in the spring? I'm sure they will bring in a few more spring specialist work horses. I like this move.
and those specialist work horses will be?
I'll let you know by the end of the month...
It is only one who should be perfect for him but he is under contract with another team.He will have *** support as he had in Tinkoff.
 
Aug 6, 2015
4,139
2
0
He doesn't need a team, he is by far the most powerful and fast rider in roubaix or flanders. Nowadays, san remo is just too easy for a classics rider like him (he doesn't have a train to leadout him perfectly like kristoff). Only GVA could stop him.
 
Hugo Koblet said:
SKSemtex said:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/ng-interactive/2016/aug/01/100-olympians-to-watch-at-rio-2016

Probably CAV should be there as well.
Why Cavendish over, say, Gaviria?
GAViria who? :D


because he is still nobody in RR compering to CAV
If 3xstage TDF winner competing in MTB is there why 4xstage winner competing in track is not?
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY