Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

nothing against Kulhavy, he is great rider a fun to watch, but his popularity and his contribution to sale potential of bikes are way behind Sagan ones.

It looks like you and Kokoso were right regarding the Lami and Haring spot and he is probably pissed a lot then, unless he has got his compensation as well .

Sorry but this is rubbish. It's mountain biking, not road biking. Likely result is Sagan finishes mid-pack and no-one gives what he's riding a second thought.

 

[saganftw]

Re: Re:

nothing against Kulhavy, he is great rider a fun to watch, but his popularity and his contribution to sale potential of bikes are way behind Sagan ones.

It looks like you and Kokoso were right regarding the Lami and Haring spot and he is probably pissed a lot then, unless he has got his compensation as well .

Sorry but this is rubbish. It's mountain biking, not road biking. Likely result is Sagan finishes mid-pack and no-one gives what he's riding a second thought.

the real MTB pros who qualified for the spot have even less chance to score a result than sagan,so what exactly is the benefit of giving them a spot?

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

the real MTB pros who qualified for the spot have even less chance to score a result than sagan,so what exactly is the benefit of giving them a spot?

Satisfying man's most basic urges for justice?

 

[saganftw]

Re: Re:

the real MTB pros who qualified for the spot have even less chance to score a result than sagan,so what exactly is the benefit of giving them a spot?

Satisfying man's most basic urges for justice?

its Olympic games,not Gotham City,dont be melodramatic

 

[hrotha]

Obviously my tone was meant as a joke, but anyway, the whole "it's just sport" thing cuts both ways.

 

[saganftw]

well if they wanna represent instead of Sagan,they better - as kids say these days - git gud

if a road pro can just ask for a spot in MTB race,it just shows how much MTB pros suck ...its like that joke about foreigners stealing jobs,if a guy who just came to your country barely speaking language steals a job from you,you are an idiot

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

nothing against Kulhavy, he is great rider a fun to watch, but his popularity and his contribution to sale potential of bikes are way behind Sagan ones.

It looks like you and Kokoso were right regarding the Lami and Haring spot and he is probably pissed a lot then, unless he has got his compensation as well .

Sorry but this is rubbish. It's mountain biking, not road biking. Likely result is Sagan finishes mid-pack and no-one gives what he's riding a second thought.

the real MTB pros who qualified for the spot have even less chance to score a result than sagan,so what exactly is the benefit of giving them a spot?

Proof? Based on results he was beated by a guy who hardly placed better than Lami in his last WC XCO race.

If it's about making a stir give the spot to John Voight. His granddad was a Slovakian. Pretty sure that'll get more press than Sagan...

 

[hrotha]

I must have missed the qualifying race where Sagan proved he was better than the other Slovakian guys.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

the real MTB pros who qualified for the spot have even less chance to score a result than sagan,so what exactly is the benefit of giving them a spot?

Satisfying man's most basic urges for justice?

That's like saying the riders with most WT points should get the spots at the road race for their nation.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

the real MTB pros who qualified for the spot have even less chance to score a result than sagan,so what exactly is the benefit of giving them a spot?

Satisfying man's most basic urges for justice?

That's like saying the riders with most WT points should get the spots at the road race for their nation.

I think a better analogy would be like being OK with the UCI deciding to arbitrarily grant the last WT spot to a Chinese team that would bring in the dough and who had signed Wiggins, relegating an average team which would otherwise have got in.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

the real MTB pros who qualified for the spot have even less chance to score a result than sagan,so what exactly is the benefit of giving them a spot?

Satisfying man's most basic urges for justice?

That's like saying the riders with most WT points should get the spots at the road race for their nation.

Not really, the best riders for the course should be picked for the road race and same for the mtb. Funnily enough though, Sagan hasn't proved he's the best rider, this is a shot at betting publicity from the Slovakian Federation, probably knowing that they had little chance of a medal either way. Fine, but you can't help but feel for the other Slovak guys.

I think UCI should've given him the wildcard. It's amazing to see the World Road Race Champion off road, but it's sad to see that at the expense of a rider who has worked for the past 4 years for this, no? Let's see what Sagan can do.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

the real MTB pros who qualified for the spot have even less chance to score a result than sagan,so what exactly is the benefit of giving them a spot?

Satisfying man's most basic urges for justice?

That's like saying the riders with most WT points should get the spots at the road race for their nation.

I think a better analogy would be like being OK with the UCI deciding to arbitrarily grant the last WT spot to a Chinese team that would bring in the dough and who had signed Wiggins, relegating an average team which would otherwise have got in.

I disagree. It has always been that it's the national team that decides what riders get to ride, and even though one can disagree with their decision/criteria, I think that it is fair.

 

[KGB]

Re: Re:

nothing against Kulhavy, he is great rider a fun to watch, but his popularity and his contribution to sale potential of bikes are way behind Sagan ones.

It looks like you and Kokoso were right regarding the Lami and Haring spot and he is probably pissed a lot then, unless he has got his compensation as well .

Sorry but this is rubbish. It's mountain biking, not road biking. Likely result is Sagan finishes mid-pack and no-one gives what he's riding a second thought.

I am not sure if is rubbish but news came out just yesterday and in MTB house is just talk about Sagan.So then they need do some shots with Sagan+Camp.jersey+spesl mountain bike and sells will be up.I will be not suprise if spesl.transfer some money via Sagan to Lami which means Lami is very happy b/c finally he could earn some good money from riding bike.All three sides are probably very happy.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

nothing against Kulhavy, he is great rider a fun to watch, but his popularity and his contribution to sale potential of bikes are way behind Sagan ones.

It looks like you and Kokoso were right regarding the Lami and Haring spot and he is probably pissed a lot then, unless he has got his compensation as well .

Sorry but this is rubbish. It's mountain biking, not road biking. Likely result is Sagan finishes mid-pack and no-one gives what he's riding a second thought.

I am not sure if is rubbish but news came out just yesterday and in MTB house is just talk about Sagan.So then they need do some shots with Sagan+Camp.jersey+spesl mountain bike and sells will be up.I will be not suprise if spesl.transfer some money via Sagan to Lami which means Lami is very happy b/c finally he could earn some good money from riding bike.All three sides are probably very happy.

I'm sorry, what is MTB house? Google gives no results. There was nothing on PinkBike, the biggest MTB site on the web, nothing on MBR, nothing on VitalMTB, nothing on IMB, a small article on SingleTrackWorld with 2 comments. My friends on Facebook who are real mountain bikers (I'm basically a dirt roadie these days) haven't even mentioned it, not even the guys who race national XC. The only place it was even mentioned was in a road club group that I'm in. Can you see where this is going? It seems there is very little interest from the MTB community beyond a general "it'll be interesting to see how he does". The only people who care are road riders, this seems to be the only place this is really being discussed.

This probably isn't helped by the fact that he hasn't bothered to try and test himself against real competition (one Czech national race where he got beaten by second rate riders) and it's a one off, which just feels like someone who thinks MTB is easy and he can just walk in and compete then leave. I'm interested to see what he does, but I will enjoy it if he loses badly as much as I will if he succeeds.

 

[glassmoon]

Re: Re:

nothing against Kulhavy, he is great rider a fun to watch, but his popularity and his contribution to sale potential of bikes are way behind Sagan ones.

It looks like you and Kokoso were right regarding the Lami and Haring spot and he is probably pissed a lot then, unless he has got his compensation as well .

Sorry but this is rubbish. It's mountain biking, not road biking. Likely result is Sagan finishes mid-pack and no-one gives what he's riding a second thought.

the real MTB pros who qualified for the spot have even less chance to score a result than sagan,so what exactly is the benefit of giving them a spot?

Proof? Based on results he was beated by a guy who hardly placed better than Lami in his last WC XCO race.

If it's about making a stir give the spot to John Voight. His granddad was a Slovakian. Pretty sure that'll get more press than Sagan...

he fought for the first place until the flat tire - still managed 4th place.
week earlier in Austria, he was in the front too but crashed. Lami/Haring would be outside top 10 in those races for sure.
he was junior WCH and 4th @ U23 WCH when Lami was 40th in elite (2009).
Skarnitzl has also a lot more cca 20th places in W-Cup than Lami who is more or less around 40-50th.
both Lami and Haring were scheduled for XCO race where PS finished 4th (after puncture) but they switched it for the race in Slovenia few days before the race - got scarred?
the Olympic qualification is taking place for 2 yrs and it's absolutely normal to send the currently the top rider rather than someone who gained the points. yes, there wasn't proper national qualification or direct comparison but there is actually no one who follows cycling thinking that he isn't better than Lami/Haring.
Skills regarding - it's pretty clear he got more than 1/2 xco world cup riders anyway. and the track in Rio isn't so technical as in the world cup and is a lot faster/smoother.
i think he for sure knows what he's doing.

 

[Jancouver]

Re: Re:

he fought for the first place until the flat tire - still managed 4th place.
week earlier in Austria, he was in the front too but crashed. Lami/Haring would be outside top 10 in those races for sure.
he was junior WCH and 4th @ U23 WCH when Lami was 40th in elite (2009).
Skarnitzl has also a lot more cca 20th places in W-Cup than Lami who is more or less around 40-50th.
both Lami and Haring were scheduled for XCO race where PS finished 4th (after puncture) but they switched it for the race in Slovenia few days before the race - got scarred?
the Olympic qualification is taking place for 2 yrs and it's absolutely normal to send the currently the top rider rather than someone who gained the points. yes, there wasn't proper national qualification or direct comparison but there is actually no one who follows cycling thinking that he isn't better than Lami/Haring.
Skills regarding - it's pretty clear he got more than 1/2 xco world cup riders anyway. and the track in Rio isn't so technical as in the world cup and is a lot faster/smoother.
i think he for sure knows what he's doing.

I agree with this. Even now, he just came back from Utah where he spent two weeks mountain biking at elevation so I'm sure his MTB skills are quickly coming back. (for sure not the same as racing)

That being said, apparently, the biggest disadvantage in RIO will be his starting position as he got no points and will be starting from the last row having 49 other guys in from of him and the course does not offer that many passing sections.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

nothing against Kulhavy, he is great rider a fun to watch, but his popularity and his contribution to sale potential of bikes are way behind Sagan ones.

It looks like you and Kokoso were right regarding the Lami and Haring spot and he is probably pissed a lot then, unless he has got his compensation as well .

Sorry but this is rubbish. It's mountain biking, not road biking. Likely result is Sagan finishes mid-pack and no-one gives what he's riding a second thought.

the real MTB pros who qualified for the spot have even less chance to score a result than sagan,so what exactly is the benefit of giving them a spot?

Proof? Based on results he was beated by a guy who hardly placed better than Lami in his last WC XCO race.

If it's about making a stir give the spot to John Voight. His granddad was a Slovakian. Pretty sure that'll get more press than Sagan...

he fought for the first place until the flat tire - still managed 4th place.
week earlier in Austria, he was in the front too but crashed. Lami/Haring would be outside top 10 in those races for sure.

Actually no, Lami would likely be within the top 10 and pushing towards top 5 based on his performances. But that doesn't change the fact that Sagan has finished one race where basically none of his competition for Olympic medals were riding and didn't win.

he was junior WCH and 4th @ U23 WCH when Lami was 40th in elite (2009).

He came 4th in a race 7 years ago... Woohoo! There is quite a big step up there you realise. Go look at how Jens Schuermans, Anton Cooper, Daniele Braidot etc. are doing in the pros. Even guys like Grant Ferguson and Ondrej Cink aren't challenging for regular podiums on the XCO world cup. In fact I'm struggling to think of an U23 WC podium place since 2009 who are a threat other than Mathias Flückiger and it was 2010 when he won the U23s. You need to go back to the U23s of 2008, I'll let you look up who won that one.

Skarnitzl has also a lot more cca 20th places in W-Cup than Lami who is more or less around 40-50th.
both Lami and Haring were scheduled for XCO race where PS finished 4th (after puncture) but they switched it for the race in Slovenia few days before the race - got scarred?

Skarnitzl is a no hoper and he still beat Sagan. Jiri Novak beat him and he's consistently worse than Lami in the world rankings. Ruben Scheire beat him, and it's only this year (where athletes will be varying their training for an Olympics) that he's been ranked higher than Lami in the last three years (when he started racing seniors).

the Olympic qualification is taking place for 2 yrs and it's absolutely normal to send the currently the top rider rather than someone who gained the points. yes, there wasn't proper national qualification or direct comparison but there is actually no one who follows cycling thinking that he isn't better than Lami/Haring.

The current top rider is Lami, ranked 74. Sagan is ranked 122. Haring is ranked 120. Don't try and make this about merit, it clearly isn't as Sagan has in no way earned the spot. And the point isn't that he is better or worse than Lami or Haring (I think he'll probably do as well as Lami would), it's that he has been given the spot because of his name. Even Cavendish has bothered actually racing against his competition in his attempt to get back on the track, Sagan hasn't.

Skills regarding - it's pretty clear he got more than 1/2 xco world cup riders anyway. and the track in Rio isn't so technical as in the world cup and is a lot faster/smoother.
i think he for sure knows what he's doing.

Is it? I don't see any proof of that at all because he hasn't competed against them. This sounds like a typical "roadie" opinion of XC riding when actually the skill levels have changed massively.


Sagan has been picked because he is Sagan. That's fine, I pretty much agree with Netserk's post on that, they can pick who they want. But it's certainly fair if Lami feels annoyed and there is no way to justify it in a sporting sense, it's a PR gamble, pure and simple.

 

[Martin]

Re: Re:

If it's about making a stir give the spot to John Voight. His granddad was a Slovakian. Pretty sure that'll get more press than Sagan...

ROFL... i'd rather have given some spot to his daughter...

 

[tomorrow]

well, as far as I know, Sagan offered his spot in RR in exchange for XC. Why Lami/Haring/Slovak Cycling Federation accepted are pure speculation, because we don't know what was offered/discussed behind the close door. Without knowing this, one just cannot judge sagan, or feel sorry for Lami/Haring.

Honestly, I feel sorry for ourselves, cycling fans. Because if more riders like Sagan won't race the RR, than it might easily end up in boring drag race, where the selection will be made from the back of the peloton. With punchers like Sagan, the climbers will have to make the race hard, without them, I bet everybody(that matters) will wait for the last climb. So we'll end up with boring race, or with very big outsider to win(which would actually could be fun, but is very unlikely).

 

[saganftw]

well, as far as I know, Sagan offered his spot in RR in exchange for XC. Why Lami/Haring/Slovak Cycling Federation accepted are pure speculation, because we don't know what was offered/discussed behind the close door. Without knowing this, one just cannot judge sagan, or feel sorry for Lami/Haring.

Honestly, I feel sorry for ourselves, cycling fans. Because if more riders like Sagan won't race the RR, than it might easily end up in boring drag race, where the selection will be made from the back of the peloton. With punchers like Sagan, the climbers will have to make the race hard, without them, I bet everybody(that matters) will wait for the last climb. So we'll end up with boring race, or with very big outsider to win(which would actually could be fun, but is very unlikely).

you cant really blame him,8,5km at 6% or whatever times 4 is a mountain stage in GTs ...how often do you see a classics specialist win this kind of stage? or san sebastian or giro di lombardia? it just doesnt happen

this is valverde,nibali,purito of old,alaphilippe course,sagan would have to loose 15 pounds before even having chance to compete

 

[tomorrow]

well, as far as I know, Sagan offered his spot in RR in exchange for XC. Why Lami/Haring/Slovak Cycling Federation accepted are pure speculation, because we don't know what was offered/discussed behind the close door. Without knowing this, one just cannot judge sagan, or feel sorry for Lami/Haring.

Honestly, I feel sorry for ourselves, cycling fans. Because if more riders like Sagan won't race the RR, than it might easily end up in boring drag race, where the selection will be made from the back of the peloton. With punchers like Sagan, the climbers will have to make the race hard, without them, I bet everybody(that matters) will wait for the last climb. So we'll end up with boring race, or with very big outsider to win(which would actually could be fun, but is very unlikely).

you cant really blame him,8,5km at 6% or whatever times 4 is a mountain stage in GTs ...how often do you see a classics specialist win this kind of stage? or san sebastian or giro di lombardia? it just doesnt happen

this is valverde,nibali,purito of old,alaphilippe course,sagan would have to loose 15 pounds before even having chance to compete

don't get me wrong, I don't blame him at all. I am just a little bit selfish and want to see some good RR in olympic games. If the climbers are not challenged, or feeling just a little bit threatened be the punchers, their tactics will in my opinion be the very much hated(by fans, not the riders) waiting game.

 

[DFA123]

well, as far as I know, Sagan offered his spot in RR in exchange for XC. Why Lami/Haring/Slovak Cycling Federation accepted are pure speculation, because we don't know what was offered/discussed behind the close door. Without knowing this, one just cannot judge sagan, or feel sorry for Lami/Haring.

Honestly, I feel sorry for ourselves, cycling fans. Because if more riders like Sagan won't race the RR, than it might easily end up in boring drag race, where the selection will be made from the back of the peloton. With punchers like Sagan, the climbers will have to make the race hard, without them, I bet everybody(that matters) will wait for the last climb. So we'll end up with boring race, or with very big outsider to win(which would actually could be fun, but is very unlikely).

you cant really blame him,8,5km at 6% or whatever times 4 is a mountain stage in GTs ...how often do you see a classics specialist win this kind of stage? or san sebastian or giro di lombardia? it just doesnt happen

this is valverde,nibali,purito of old,alaphilippe course,sagan would have to loose 15 pounds before even having chance to compete

He's got more chance of winning the road race than the MTB race. Admittedly not a big chance, but if he was really serious, he could drop some weight and hope that it's quite a negative race. I think they're only doing the final climb three times, and with a lack of domestiques to really drive a hard pace it could be ridden relatively easily. Obviously he'd be nowhere near favourite, but he'd be something like a 30/1 or 40/1 outside bet, especially if he peaked and prepared for it.

He has zero chance of winning the MTB. Just a pure marketing and publicity based decision. And now he'll steal the limelight from the top MTB riders who are entering by far the biggest event of their careers.

 

[Keram]

It is obvious Sagan wanted to ride MTB and he is bigger than Slovak cycling union. President of union would do everything to please him. I am curiuos and many slovaks either. I really hope he wont mess up his TDF campaing and that this "experiment" wont hurt his road racing in the future.

 

[Lance Armstrong]

well, as far as I know, Sagan offered his spot in RR in exchange for XC. Why Lami/Haring/Slovak Cycling Federation accepted are pure speculation

They do whatever Sagan wants them to do.

But that's understandable - he did more for cycling in Slovakia than Federation did in the last 20 years. I mean, look at hundreds of kids at Sagan Kids Tour or Sagan Cycling Academy in Zilina. Plus, federation's budget is 3 times bigger than it was in 2010 - only thanks to increased sponsorship money.

 

[SKSemtex]

well, as far as I know, Sagan offered his spot in RR in exchange for XC. Why Lami/Haring/Slovak Cycling Federation accepted are pure speculation

They do whatever Sagan wants them to do.

But that's understandable - he did more for cycling in Slovakia than Federation did in the last 20 years. I mean, look at hundreds of kids at Sagan Kids Tour or Sagan Cycling Academy in Zilina. Plus, federation's budget is 3 times bigger than it was in 2010 - only thanks to increased sponsorship money.

He did for SLOVAKIA more then ANYBODY in last 20 years (probably except Dzirinda who dismounted Meciar regime and brought Slovakia back to Europe)