Teams & Riders Peter Sagan discussion thread.

[THEORYY]

Re:

Sagan: ‘I told myself Vincenzo wins or we’ll catch him’

I wonder if this happens a lot to Sagan, his brain thinking up tautological statements. "I crash or I don't", "Kwiato outsprints me or he doesn't"

I think you totally missed the point, he wanted to say that he wont chase him alone... thats why he said "WE"

 

[Netserk]

Just caught up with the race and saw the final an extra time; Sagan only starts to lead the descent after Oss comes to a standstill. I don't know if he had a puncture or if he is just a bad descender. I didn't manage to spot Oss again. I agree with others here that Sagan found himself inbetween different positions, tactically. It seems like he cannot commit, and it only takes a brief moment of uncertainty before he tries something else.

 

[SafeBet]

Re:

Just caught up with the race and saw the final an extra time; Sagan only starts to lead the descent after Oss comes to a standstill. I don't know if he had a puncture or if he is just a bad descender.

Oss was spent after leading the last part of the Poggio.

 

[krakenKE]

Re:

Sagan should have been on the wheel of Oss who should have been on the wheel of Burghardt in the bottom of the Poggio. Simple as that.

Spot on. Bora should have formed their little train on Poggio. That way they would have been able to control possible attacks or set the pace to drop the sprinters.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Re:

Sagan should have been on the wheel of Oss who should have been on the wheel of Burghardt in the bottom of the Poggio. Simple as that.

Spot on. Bora should have formed their little train on Poggio. That way they would have been able to control possible attacks or set the pace to drop the sprinters.

Exactly. Weeks before MSR I thought that Bora and Sky woud make the carnage for sprinters already in Cipresa, and from the bottom of Pogio.
But few days before MSR I had a feeling that Sagan is not in the shape to make difference on Pogio. With Gaviria being gone Sagan probably realized that he has better chances is sprint.
His team is strong. If he had the form of last year we would definitely see Bora train up the Pogio.
Anyway I am always happy when somebody steal the win from sprinters teams in their races.
Sagan was right. Nibali's win is great for Italy, great for cycling.

 

[WKA311]

Re: Re:

No Oss, no Burghardt, no Pöstlberger for E3!? What is happening?

Exactly what I was thinking, but they will all be racing in GW. Posti also is in startlist for E3 now. Oss and Burghardt have been much more busy than sagan, so they probably need some rest. Or maybe they are going for Three days of de Panne.
In addition, maybe they just want to test Sagan and let him try to drop the hammer on Oude Kwaremont and do a Cancellara.

About Postlberger, he released a short text on instagram stating that he is out for the whole of the cobbled classics. So his name on the startlist doesn't make sense.

 

[Durden93]

In slovak television RTVS they gave interwiev with Sagan and he told he had something with gearings and chain so he didnt sprint properly. I dont know if it is true but Sagan himself told that. He also said something like " Why should I catch attackers everytime by myself". And he told he praise Nibali win.

Unfortunately for Sagan, He is the strongest rider in the peloton so everybody would be looking at Him to close any dangerous attacks down. It's the same boat Cancellera was in a few years ago at the cobbles classic. Riders simply stuck His wheel like Glue because of who He is.

Hold on a second. Sagan wasn't criticized because he himself didn't chase nibali, he was criticized because he did chase nibali. His mistake was not to wait for the sprint but to not be sure whether to wait or to ride at the front

Is that a fair criticism though? If Sagan was successful in reeling Nibali back he would've
A) Used up a ton of energy and
B) Given a lead out to a competitor

I think Sagan's best chance would've been to try to jump onto the wheel of Nibali when he went. Yeah, Nibali probably wouldn't have worked with him. It almost certainly wouldn't have mattered because Sagan would've still beaten him in a sprint.

 

[tomorrow]

In slovak television RTVS they gave interwiev with Sagan and he told he had something with gearings and chain so he didnt sprint properly. I dont know if it is true but Sagan himself told that. He also said something like " Why should I catch attackers everytime by myself". And he told he praise Nibali win.

Unfortunately for Sagan, He is the strongest rider in the peloton so everybody would be looking at Him to close any dangerous attacks down. It's the same boat Cancellera was in a few years ago at the cobbles classic. Riders simply stuck His wheel like Glue because of who He is.

Hold on a second. Sagan wasn't criticized because he himself didn't chase nibali, he was criticized because he did chase nibali. His mistake was not to wait for the sprint but to not be sure whether to wait or to ride at the front

Is that a fair criticism though? If Sagan was successful in reeling Nibali back he would've
A) Used up a ton of energy and
B) Given a lead out to a competitor

I think Sagan's best chance would've been to try to jump onto the wheel of Nibali when he went. Yeah, Nibali probably wouldn't have worked with him. It almost certainly wouldn't have mattered because Sagan would've still beaten him in a sprint.

Well, for Sagan, if at his best the Nibali's attack came too soon to carry on only by himself pulling Nibali. He should just hop onto his wheel and not cooperate. But for that the Bora would have to be aligned at the front of the peleton.
However, if it is true that his shifting was broken, he would have probably lost to anybody in the sprint, so any assumptions and hypoteses are irrelevant.

 

[46&twoWheels]

Re:

Sagan: ‘I told myself Vincenzo wins or we’ll catch him’

I wonder if this happens a lot to Sagan, his brain thinking up tautological statements. "I crash or I don't", "Kwiato outsprints me or he doesn't"

What he did was risky and at the same time conservative. He decided that it was not worth attempting to chase Nibali given that the peloton would have catched him but at the same time he surrendered to the idea that NIbali could have won

So Sagan basically thought: "hopefully we catch him. If not, whatever..."
It's like he didn't want to try to win the race by himself alone but only if the peloton and the "general trend" permitted

 

[Lexman]

curious to see if Sagans form is real good or just so and so, he didn't convince in Tirreno nor in MSR..

 

[tomorrow]

Re:

curious to see if Sagans form is real good or just so and so, he didn't convince in Tirreno nor in MSR..

I think that tomorrow after E3 finish we'll know. Unless he has some puncture or mechanical of course. If he attacks himself or not, he will have to react to attacks of others. And unlike MSR, E3 is usually won strongest, or very close to strongest rider. And at least VanMarcke will attack, and if Sagan doesn't at least cover his attack with ease, than his form is really not so good. And usually, you can see on Sagan's face, when he's spent or on the edge. E.g. if you look on sagan face and that crazy hill stage in T-A he won, he was clearly done. Had some of the climbers attacked, they would drop him. He had just fooled them by going into the front, like he wanted to attack.

 

[Lexman]

Re: Re:

curious to see if Sagans form is real good or just so and so, he didn't convince in Tirreno nor in MSR..

I think that tomorrow after E3 finish we'll know. Unless he has some puncture or mechanical of course. If he attacks himself or not, he will have to react to attacks of others. And unlike MSR, E3 is usually won strongest, or very close to strongest rider. And at least VanMarcke will attack, and if Sagan doesn't at least cover his attack with ease, than his form is really not so good. And usually, you can see on Sagan's face, when he's spent or on the edge. E.g. if you look on sagan face and that crazy hill stage in T-A he won, he was clearly done. Had some of the climbers attacked, they would drop him. He had just fooled them by going into the front, like he wanted to attack.

will try to find the stage, haven't seen it

 

[krakenKE]

Re: Re:

curious to see if Sagans form is real good or just so and so, he didn't convince in Tirreno nor in MSR..

I think that tomorrow after E3 finish we'll know. Unless he has some puncture or mechanical of course. If he attacks himself or not, he will have to react to attacks of others. And unlike MSR, E3 is usually won strongest, or very close to strongest rider. And at least VanMarcke will attack, and if Sagan doesn't at least cover his attack with ease, than his form is really not so good. And usually, you can see on Sagan's face, when he's spent or on the edge. E.g. if you look on sagan face and that crazy hill stage in T-A he won, he was clearly done. Had some of the climbers attacked, they would drop him. He had just fooled them by going into the front, like he wanted to attack.

will try to find the stage, haven't seen it

here you are https://youtu.be/HjfDwGnjs_c

 

[sprints n stones]

Oss now supposed to riding for Sagan now due to Posti illness. That should help liven things up. Can't wait!

 

[tomorrow]

Re:

Oss now supposed to riding for Sagan now due to Posti illness. That should help liven things up. Can't wait!

Actually, it can help sagan to actualy win the race. But it will hardly liven things up. For that we would need peter to attack, attack, attack. No matter the cost. And why would he he do that if he has oss in the group to cover the attacks.

 

[toolittle]

Re: Re:

What happens to Sagan and his teammate?
Fake away slowly. All disappeared.

 

[tomorrow]

Re: Re:

What happens to Sagan and his teammate?
Fake away slowly. All disappeared.

they were spent. Oss had been the first to try bring Terpstra and Lampaert back and he left almost everything he had there. Then Sagan continued with Benoot, and then Sagan tried again. Instead, they should have waited for patterberg kwaremont combo to unleash sagan. Only if GvA went sagan should have followed.

 

[Jspear]

Personally I just don't think his form is that great. (unless his crash was really that bad.) I watched the last 30 K of Strade. He seemed tired...like his legs were heavy and fatigued. Today he was there or there about for a long time. Once the group with Sep and Naesen caught up and they pressed on again, he seemed the same way again.

 

[Screecher]

Sagan era is over. Sagan is fading. How many times have we heard that already? I wonder what the reasoning for his current form is, because he looked good in January.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Sagan era is over. Sagan is fading. How many times have we heard that already? I wonder what the reasoning for his current form is, because he looked good in January.

I don't think I have a heard that one single time.
I could only watch the last twenty km today so I didn't see how he looked but if he really just wasn't strong enough it would be interesting to know what happened. He probably f*cked up his preparation because otherwise I don't see how Sagan, who was the strongest rider in almost all cobbles classics he has entered in the last two years, suddenly becomes something like the 20th best cobbles rider in the world.

 

[Salvarani]

Does not seem to have the shape and form right now. Factors could be having a kid and all what that entails. Finding the balance with that. He also raced in Australia but then took a break after that while many off his competitors raced a few prep-races. He has 6-7 race days less than most of them. He might just be behind in that aspect right now. A few more races and it might turn around, but he better turn it around quick to be a contender in the upcoming weeks.

 

[TheYouyou7]

Still it comes as a surprise he was quite good in Tirreno especially in the stage that Yates won

 

[krakenKE]

Re:

Still it comes as a surprise he was quite good in Tirreno especially in the stage that Yates won

Exactly, I don't know what happened but it looks like his shape is trending down instead of up since Tirreno. I really do hope that he had just a bad day but E3 doesn't lie usually.

 

[Gigs_98]

Any chance he was bad because he is focussing more on climbing because he wants to win the WC RR again? That would explain his strong tirreno adriatico performance

 

[krakenKE]

Any chance he was bad because he is focussing more on climbing because he wants to win the WC RR again? That would explain his strong tirreno adriatico performance

Don't think so. He looks heavier to me than last season. He also wasn't very convincing in 3rd stage of Tirreno.