Peter Sagan Thread 2011

[flicker]

So what do you think of the Netherlands and Belgium? Same group?

Sorry, but you sound like the stereotype American who has no clue what he's talking about.

Never been to the Netherlands. Met a few people from there and Belgium. Seem like nice folks, yes. The people from Belgium were different yes. Still, nice folks. I did race with a group of Polish, white russian, Croatians. Everyone got along famously, and there was never a mention of who is better.

I guess I am a stereotypical American, we live in a rainbow world and we like people, from everywhere. By the way, thank you for the complement.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I tie the slovakian speaking people in a group. Whether they come from Poland or the Ukranian, Croatia, or Russia areas the languages are similar. Knowing the migratory patterns of humans I would think Czeck Republic and Slovakia are similar. Russian guys I know who have relatives in the new countries do not make those country distinctions, as far as Kazak/Russian etc. When it comes to Ukranian, way different story, a group set apart.

You mean Slavic.

Slovak speakers can only be found in and around Slovakia.

FYI, the Slavic languages are usually divided into three groups.

Western Slavic: Polish, Kashubian, Sorbian, Czech, Slovak
Southern Slavic: Slovene, Croat, Serb, Bosnian (the last three are very similar, differing mostly in script and in religious terminology), Bulgarian, Macedonian
East Slavic: Belarusian, Ukrainian, Russian

 

[Jancouver]

Nope.

Slovakia was united with Bohemia in 1918 by the Western Powers, for among other reasons to have a stronger country in post war europe.

They are different people, different language etc.

Its like saying that France is essentially the same as Turkey because they were all part of the Roman Empire

Not the same thing. By your logic then Vinokourov, Taaramae or Kiriyenka are all Russians - they were born in USSR.

I was born in Czechoslovakia so was Peter Sagan. When he was born it was still a Czechoslovakia. Half of my family is Slovak and half is Czech so please do not lecture me about it. Our languages are so similar that we do understand each other without any problems. Its like an American & British English. Culturally pretty much the same ... they just got more Gypsies

 

[flicker]

I was born in Czechoslovakia so was Peter Sagan. When he was born it was still a Czechoslovakia. Half of my family is Slovak and half is Czech so please do not lecture me about it. Our languages are so similar that we do understand each other without any problems. Its like an American & British English. Culturally pretty much the same ... they just got more Gypsies

Janouver...........I love you man!

 

[royalpig180]

Sagan took third today in the Classica Sarda. He seems to be on good form right now, and should do well in P-N and maybe even MSR. After his performance to beat the pure sprinters in Sardinia, I'm more convinced that he has a chance at MSR, if Liquigas works to make the race hard for the pure sprinters over the last couple climbs.

 

[Angliru]

Tell me how naturally was Ally Vally climbing when he was 20?

When Ullrich won WCHamps in Oslo in 1993, nobody knew about his future TT skills... I'm not telling he will be future GT champion, but I think he can be one.

I recall an early photo of Valverde from his amateur days and he essentially got by on his talent alone. If I'm not mistaken he started cycling competitively because his father had decided that he was getting a bit pudgy.
He was at that point an exceptional sprinter and once he committed to the sport, his weight began to drop. He retained his exceptional finishing speed, continued to lose weight and consequently his power to weight ratio increased such that he became a pretty good climber, an area that he continued to improve upon as his career progressed.

Sagan looks to have naturally larger frame but of course that doesn't mean he couldn't lose the weight and still maintain some or most of his power in the process. I think it is a risky venture. At this point he seems sure to become an exceptional one day racer, stage chaser and potential week long stage race elite rider provided his climbing improves along with his ITT. I personally think it would be a waste of his talents to try to pursue grand tour glory.

 

[Parrulo]

I recall an early photo of Valverde from his amateur days and he essentially got by on his talent alone. If I'm not mistaken he started cycling competitively because his father had decided that he was getting a bit pudgy.
He was at that point an exceptional sprinter and once he committed to the sport, his weight began to drop. He retained his exceptional finishing speed, continued to lose weight and consequently his power to weight ratio increased such that he became an pretty good climber, an area that he continued to improve upon as his career progressed.

Sagan looks to have naturally larger frame but of course that doesn't mean he couldn't lose the weight and still maintain some or most of his power in the process. I think it is a risky venture. At this point he seems sure to become an exceptional one day racer, stage chaser and potential week long stage race elite rider provided his climbing improves along with his ITT. I personally think it would be a waste of his talents to try to pursue grand tour glory.

i agree with this. i may be mistaken but i read somewhere that he isn't half bad on the cobbles, so with his potential he could get the 5 monuments.
about M-SR i still think its to early for him. its almost 300k and he is the same age as me . . .

p.s. i remember being a kid and watching valverde still in kelme winning a stage on some spanish stage race against edo(i think thats his name) it was an uphill finish but back then(it was really a long time ago) valverde looked more like a sprinter then a GT/ardenees rider. at least from what i remember. but i was kid so . . .

 

[Angliru]

i agree with this. i may be mistaken but i read somewhere that he isn't half bad on the cobbles, so with his potential he could get the 5 monuments.
about M-SR i still think its to early for him. its almost 300k and he is the same age as me . . .

p.s. i remember being a kid and watching valverde still in kelme winning a stage on some spanish stage race against edo(i think thats his name) it was an uphill finish but back then(it was really a long time ago) valverde looked more like a sprinter then a GT/ardenees rider. at least from what i remember. but i was kid so . . .

If anyone has it I believe the photo I'm referencing was from Pro Cycling magazine. Valverde was on the cover in his Kelme/Communidad Valenciana kit and it was of course the cover story about him. The photo itself was of him on the podium/stage after a victory with another rider holding his trophy. He was pretty thick compared to his current weight.

 

[flicker]

Guys who can climb and sprint like Valverde are a bit of an anomaly.
Just looking at photos, of Valverde, ( Ullrich,and Sagan) they are seated uphill in a streamline position. Not your typical climbers, but the pure power to climb is there. Exciting to watch and great potential. I see no problem with Sagan morphing into a GT man, after all, he has gone from BMX to mountain bike to pro road. His style on the bike is there, his determination is there and his power is there. At this point it is about proper coaching with Sagan and to protect him from falls and accidents. Otherwise I see nothing but Worlds' championships and wins from the youngster known as Sagan.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Guys who can climb and sprint like Valverde are a bit of an anomaly.
Just looking at photos, of Valverde, ( Ullrich,and Sagan) they are seated uphill in a streamline position. Not your typical climbers, but the pure power to climb is there. Exciting to watch and great potential. I see no problem with Sagan morphing into a GT man, after all, he has gone from BMX to mountain bike to pro road. His style on the bike is there, his determination is there and his power is there. At this point it is about proper coaching with Sagan and to protect him from falls and accidents. Otherwise I see nothing but Worlds' championships and wins from the youngster known as Sagan.

Look, there is Valverde somewhere in the back of that picture

 

[royalpig180]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/02/news/inside-cycling-with-john-wilcockson-man-of-the-week-sagan-%e2%80%94-a-merckx-in-the-making_162049

This is an interesting article from the Velonews website about Sagan and a good recap of the Giro di Sardegna...

 

[virenque216]

Now that he won his first Pro tour stage event, we have a few weeks before Vuelta. It looks very interesting what will he do in his first GT. Maybe we can open a small discussion about his chances there.
Will he be helping Nibali, like Nibali helped him in Poland?
Will he try to race to his maximum on any mountain top finish,so far we dont know for sure how far is he back from the best if he doesnt save his energy when he gets dropped.
Will he win any of the bunch sprints contested? or just the Saganesque medium hard stages?
How will the 21 year old body feel in the 3rd week of a hard race?

I suppose we can look forward to a Great Vuelta and perhaps imagine him against Gilbert if he would have done the Tour this year.

 

[royalpig180]

I imagine he'll help out Nibali when he can. Nibali was truly amazing in support of Sagan over the last few days. He wouldn't have won the TdP without the Shark. I don't think he'll really push himself in the high mountains. Though he may get stronger in the mountains over the coming years, he isn't there yet. I don't see him winning a true bunch sprint in the Vuelta. He's much better off targeting the Saganesque finishes. That said, if there are enough of these finishes (I still need to review the Vuelta route), he may be able to contest the points jersey, and then he'd have to go for bunch sprints too.

I know he's only 21, but he's shown he's very strong, even in some longer races. Obviously a 3 week GT is very different than anything he's done before, so it's impossible to predict how his body will react. I imagine he won't be strong enough to win anything in the final week, but should be able to finish the race as a team helper with no problem.

I'll be happy if he comes away with a stage win and manages to finish the race, both of which i believe to be reasonable goals for him.

 

[greenedge]

He shall test himself there trying to win a stage but he might not finish. Good luck for his young body and it's all part of the experience.

 

[Kopuliak]

Now that he won his first Pro tour stage event, we have a few weeks before Vuelta. It looks very interesting what will he do in his first GT. Maybe we can open a small discussion about his chances there.
Will he be helping Nibali, like Nibali helped him in Poland?
Will he try to race to his maximum on any mountain top finish,so far we dont know for sure how far is he back from the best if he doesnt save his energy when he gets dropped.
Will he win any of the bunch sprints contested? or just the Saganesque medium hard stages?
How will the 21 year old body feel in the 3rd week of a hard race?

I suppose we can look forward to a Great Vuelta and perhaps imagine him against Gilbert if he would have done the Tour this year.

-"It's very good," Scirea said. "Nibali worked for Sagan at the Tour of Poland, Sagan will work for Nibali at the Vuelta. Our priority at Liquigas-Canondale is to have a team working as a team..."
-"At the Vuelta, Scirea thinks Sagan can do well in sprints. "Especially in uphill finishes, like in the Tour of Poland's fourth stage. Peter is explosive, with characteristics similar to Philippe Gilbert or Edvald Boasson Hagen."
-"We are always very careful with him because he's very young."

I found answers to all your questions in new article here on cyclingnews
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sagan-targets-stage-wins-at-the-vuelta

I hope he can be at least in group of top riders in point classification.

 

[LaFleur]

-"It's very good," Scirea said. "Nibali worked for Sagan at the Tour of Poland, Sagan will work for Nibali at the Vuelta. Our priority at Liquigas-Canondale is to have a team working as a team..."
-"At the Vuelta, Scirea thinks Sagan can do well in sprints. "Especially in uphill finishes, like in the Tour of Poland's fourth stage. Peter is explosive, with characteristics similar to Philippe Gilbert or Edvald Boasson Hagen."
-"We are always very careful with him because he's very young."

I found answers to all your questions in new article here on cyclingnews
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sagan-targets-stage-wins-at-the-vuelta

I hope he can be at least in group of top riders in point classification.

It's not like nobody has ever done a grand tour in his age. Heck, alot of them in his age have done several grand tours a year. Age shouldn't be an issu for him.

 

[Lance Armstrong]

Will he be helping Nibali, like Nibali helped him in Poland?
He will, he said that in the media.

Will he try to race to his maximum on any mountain top finish,so far we dont know for sure how far is he back from the best if he doesnt save his energy when he gets dropped.
He won't, he will save his energy just like in Tour de Suisse.

Will he win any of the bunch sprints contested? or just the Saganesque medium hard stages?
He'll definitely try whenever he can. There is 8-10 Saganesque stages this year.

 

[virenque216]

I had a look at first few stages of vuelta and if liquigas do a great TTT and he wins stage 3 which has a climb shortly before finish,he can be in golden jersey before sierra nevada, I dont know,are there any time bonuses for top 3 finishers? there are also few stage finishes near the 20% or so gradients and short enough,which might give us a great racing him against purito,anton,sanchez,cant wait for it now already

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I had a look at first few stages of vuelta and if liquigas do a great TTT and he wins stage 3 which has a climb shortly before finish,he can be in golden jersey before sierra nevada, I dont know,are there any time bonuses for top 3 finishers? there are also few stage finishes near the 20% or so gradients and short enough,which might give us a great racing him against purito,anton,sanchez,cant wait for it now already

time bonuses, yes
And tbh I think 20% is still too much for Sagan

 

[royalpig180]

There is 8-10 Saganesque stages this year.[/B]

Hmm really? I sure hope so. If this is true, and his body can cope with a 3 week GT, then he can definitely contend for the points classification.

time bonuses, yes
And tbh I think 20% is still too much for Sagan

I agree.

On a different note, does anyone think Sagan will be able to contend for the worlds RR title? If the rise in the last km is enough to distance some pure sprinters or at least make the sprint tough, he could have an outside shot. He's shown that he can pick the right wheels to follow and won't really need team support on a flat circuit like this one.

 

[greenedge]

Grega Bole could do a good lead out for him. Juraj and Janez???( Slovenian ) will also be there. Who else would fill in the slots

 

[Fus087]

Grega Bole could do a good lead out for him. Juraj and Janez???( Slovenian ) will also be there. Who else would fill in the slots

This is getting annoying.
The Sagan and Velits brothers are SLOVAKIAN. That's the country to the north of Hungary and to the east of the Czech Republic.
Brajkovic, Bole, Bozic etc. are SLOVENIAN. That's the country to the south-east of Hungary and to the north of Croatia.
Although having somewhat similar names, they are NOT the same countries.
greenedge, no offence to you in particular, but it's just annoying.

Of course, it it was the same country, it would be one hell of a team.

On a different note, does anyone think Sagan will be able to contend for the worlds RR title? If the rise in the last km is enough to distance some pure sprinters or at least make the sprint tough, he could have an outside shot. He's shown that he can pick the right wheels to follow and won't really need team support on a flat circuit like this one.

I think he will be able to contend. Again, "the rise in the last km" actually isn't the hardest climb on the route (there's another slightly longer climb), but overall I think the race can be compared to the Philadelphia Championship in length and difficulty. Sagan was 2nd there twice, so he can handle the distance. The opposition there was the likes of Goss, Kristoff, Borrajo, Alex Rasmussen and Förster though.
Top-10 is entirely possible. Winning? I wouldn't put my money on it, but it's not impossible. 4% uphill sounds like a feast for Sagan, but for once he'll be battling the entire world's top riders.

 

[royalpig180]

This is getting annoying.
The Sagan and Velits brothers are SLOVAKIAN. That's the country to the north of Hungary and to the east of the Czech Republic.
Brajkovic, Bole, Bozic etc. are SLOVENIAN. That's the country to the south-east of Hungary and to the north of Croatia.
Although having somewhat similar names, they are NOT the same countries.
greenedge, no offence to you in particular, but it's just annoying.

Of course, it it was the same country, it would be one hell of a team.



I think he will be able to contend. Again, "the rise in the last km" actually isn't the hardest climb on the route (there's another slightly longer climb), but overall I think the race can be compared to the Philadelphia Championship in length and difficulty. Sagan was 2nd there twice, so he can handle the distance. The opposition there was the likes of Goss, Kristoff, Borrajo, Alex Rasmussen and Förster though.
Top-10 is entirely possible. Winning? I wouldn't put my money on it, but it's not impossible. 4% uphill sounds like a feast for Sagan, but for once he'll be battling the entire world's top riders.

I agree. I'm also still not convinced that he has what it takes in a long high speed, high intensity race like the world championships. While the course may suit him in and he may have done well on courses of a similar length before, i'm just not convinced that he can be up there i a race like the world champs after a long race with so few teammates (how many is he going to have?) With that said, the course does suit him. He has an outside chance for the podium for sure. And he continues to surprise.

 

[TatryTour2013]

Crazy Peter

Do you know this video? No? Now it will be more clear for all why Peter has so strong bike handling skills ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sT_m-3k9O4

There more videos like that on the net with young Peter.