Petition to ASO to allow women's teams to race the Tour

[TANK91]

Id watch for sure, Vos is an absoloute legend. What I don't like though is when all we hear about is equal pay, im not being sexist but come on why should women who don't race aslong a race be entitled to same pay(I know its not in cycling yet but they want it). Its like Tennis the Ladies get the same pay and their matches are often over in 2 sets taking just 1 hr, were as the men play best of 5, what you lot think?.

 

[Night Rider]

If there was a viable market, there would already be one.

Similar to my opinion. If you need a petition to get an event run then there isn't much of a product to sell.

 

[silverrocket]

Id watch for sure, Vos is an absoloute legend. What I don't like though is when all we hear about is equal pay, im not being sexist but come on why should women who don't race aslong a race be entitled to same pay(I know its not in cycling yet but they want it). Its like Tennis the Ladies get the same pay and their matches are often over in 2 sets taking just 1 hr, were as the men play best of 5, what you lot think?.

They pay should, and is, based on how much money is being made by sponsors. Women's cycling doesn't make as much money, so women cyclist's shouldn't get paid as much. This is why cat 5 men get paid even less, and our weekly inter-club races have a 1st place prize of just $15.

I don't like how it is portrayed as an "equal rights" issue, when in fact it is just a business.

 

[TheBean]

Serious question:

Is there anything in the rules that prohibits a ProTour team from signing a woman to the team and entering her in the Tour?

If not, then there is no gender discrimination and an equal opportunity for all.

 

[GPdesAmeriques]

In all sports I support women competing against men if they are good enough. In cycling I don't think there are many, any good enough. I think even Vos would struggle to take a place on a TDF team. I think she could keep up without much of an issue, but she isn't going to be competitive in a sprint, climb, TT, pulling back a break etc.
I like the idea of women's races alongside men's if the UCI wants to expand the appeal of cycling, why limit it to Africa and Asia? why not women? In a 4 hour telecast of a men's race surely there is time once the break has been formed to show highlights of, and discuss the women's race, which often involves racing more like days gone by that we, as fans, claim we'd like to see again.

Sporza showed highlights of the women's RVV this year (including interviews with the podium winners) although it wasn't until the end of the broadcast.

 

[peterst6906]

Serious question:

Is there anything in the rules that prohibits a ProTour team from signing a woman to the team and entering her in the Tour?

If not, then there is no gender discrimination and an equal opportunity for all.

Yes, UCI Rule 2.1.005, which defines the UCI WorldTour as being for the Elite Men category (as defined in rule 1.1.036).

The rules are available here:

http://www.uci.ch/templates/BUILTIN-NOFRAMES/Template1/layout.asp?MenuId=MTY2NjU&LangId=1

Those specific rules are on pages:

Page 2 here: http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/g...&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=34028&LangId=1

Page 10 here: http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/g...&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=34033&LangId=1

There are a range of rules that make it difficult for a WorldTour team to employ a female, however those 2 rules above make preclude that even if a team wanted to try.

 

[GPdesAmeriques]

Serious question:

Is there anything in the rules that prohibits a ProTour team from signing a woman to the team and entering her in the Tour?

If not, then there is no gender discrimination and an equal opportunity for all.

Vos wants to challenge the Dawg for the yellow jersey!

In fact the UCI prohibits men and women racing against each other in any sanctioned race. It's only allowed for unsanctioned / "fun" races like the Amstel Curaçao.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

In general, the power profile (W/kg) of elite professional women cyclists is similar to top masters men 45+ years.

 

[ElChingon]

Sometimes I read the news of this type and think its still 1950's or 1960's, same for the forum.

But!

I also read the petition and think this this grade school attendance as a sport. No sport, no matter the sex of the competitors gets a free ride to be a sport. How can an organization be strong armed to run a race that hasn't proven itself? I'm not saying the women can't race or can't do it, I'm saying get your own backing and run a freaking race. No, instead someone else has to front the bill so they can SEE if they can race and SEE if they will be a viable sporting event. I still remember the year Womans Basketball (WNBA) came out and all through the mens finals all we heard was "we got next". Well that next came and went as fast as possible, why? Because they had no next, you can't just claim we want it, you have to build it. Back in the day, its listed that the NBA mens teams played on TV at 11:00PM! That's some prime time slot isn't it. That's where I expect to see women's basketball and till they build to prime time viewership well then they can move to it.

What next men's beach volleyball claiming they want the same prizes and face time as woman's beach volleyball, yea not going to happen. Till they earn it, not that I'll watch.

 

[TheBean]

Yes, UCI Rule 2.1.005, which defines the UCI WorldTour as being for the Elite Men category (as defined in rule 1.1.036).

The rules are available here:

http://www.uci.ch/templates/BUILTIN-NOFRAMES/Template1/layout.asp?MenuId=MTY2NjU&LangId=1

Those specific rules are on pages:

Page 2 here: http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/g...&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=34028&LangId=1

Page 10 here: http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/g...&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=34033&LangId=1

There are a range of rules that make it difficult for a WorldTour team to employ a female, however those 2 rules above make preclude that even if a team wanted to try.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[TheBean]

Women's rights is a sensitive issue herein the USA.

Let's take a mimute to look at some facts:

1. The Olympics in London were the first Olympics ever to have more female competitors than males. Women even had several Olympic events in which men were forbidded to participate (synchronized swimming, rhythmic gymnastics).

2. Women account for about 60% of college students in the USA.

3. Women are allowed to start an organization in the USA and create any event they choose to promote. I would be surprised if this were not the case in France.

4. There was a women's TdF back in the day, but it didn't last due to lack of participation and fundung problems.

5. If the OP would like to see women in the TdF (given that UCI rules don't allow it), then I suggest she start a grass-roots campaign to raise money to court sponsors to promote a resurgence of a women's TdF. The Women's Giro seemed to be a good success, from what I have read. So, the template for success already exists.

UNfortunately, sometimes men aren't allowed to participate in an event exclusive to women and vice versa. The solution is to make your own event and promote it. The ASO, being a for-profit private company, can choose whatever rulesit wants for the TdF as long as they comply with UCA rules, etc.

I hope I don't come across as a chauvanistic jerk. I have a young daughter and I want her to have every opportunity that boys do. The answer is for our generation to build those opportunities for them.

 

[ozerulz]

Quite frankly I doubt any of the men here would hold the opinions they do had they been born female. This petition is exactly what womens cycling needs. Currently the tdf runs a caravan ahead of the race to entertain the crowd. Why not have a womens tdf running ahead of the mens race?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

4. There was a women's TdF back in the day, but it didn't last due to lack of participation and fundung problems.

5. If the OP would like to see women in the TdF (given that UCI rules don't allow it), then I suggest she start a grass-roots campaign to raise money to court sponsors to promote a resurgence of a women's TdF. The Women's Giro seemed to be a good success, from what I have read. So, the template for success already exists.

In fact there used to be two competing women's TdFs, the Grand Boucle Féminin and the Route de France. The latter still exists, on-off. This year's event runs from August 3 to August 10 over a prologue and 7 stages, although the route looks to be very, very flat - last year's race finished with three stages in the Vosges mountains including an MTF at La Planche des Belles Filles, but this year's features no mountain ranges at all.

The UCI regulations currently forbid women's races of a length over 10 days, I believe, so the re-born Route de France (it was cut down to just 5 days by 2010, didn't run at all in 2011, but was reborn as a 9-day event last year) is about as close as we can get. The 9-day Tour de l'Aude, which ran until 2011, is probably the closest that we could get in terms of parcours to a women's Tour de France in recent years.

I also would say that I'm of mixed opinion on the Tour de France. After all, La Fléche Wallonne and the Ronde van Vlaanderen are two of the most successful events on the women's calendar, mainly as the crowd and logistics are already in place for the men's race later and it gives the fans something to watch, the women a chance to race in front of a crowd larger than they normally get to, and the TV cameras are there so they can get a bit more exposure than they normally would (see Sporza inviting Grace Verbeke into the studio after she won the Ronde in 2010), so this would suggest that the women would benefit from this. But at the same time, the Giro d'Italia Femminile flourishes with its early July slot, at least in part because they hold stages fairly early in the day which means RAI's highlights package can be put together in time to append to the Tour de France coverage and take advantage of maximum crossover audience. And they must be doing something right, as highlights have increased from 10-15 minutes back in '08-'09 to 45-60 minutes for the last couple of years. I wouldn't want to risk that organic growth for something artificial. Maybe they could start with a week 3 race, giving the riders a week off in between the Giro and Tour (presumably then there'd need to be a crit, short ITT or something alongside the men's rest day though).

 

[TheEnoculator]

I'm all for more women's races. Vos got me interested in women's cycling, and I fully support bringing back Tour Féminin. If they bring it, I'll watch it. Some women sports have become huge events and are as big as, or catching up with the men's, like tennis, and golf is catching up. I understand that it comes down to economics, but before you make money, you need to spend money first. If UCI is serious about promoting women's cycling, they'd do it. My only problem is women who are trying to compete against the men. It's just feministic BS. Men and women are completely different physiologically, different muscle, bone and fat masses, so at the pro level, it wouldn't be fair to either gender, though I don't think that is the intention here for the petition. If the women's race starts an hour after the men's start at each TdF stage, I think it's doable in terms of distance (obviously the UCI regulation has to be revised for this to happen) and number of stages. The crowds are there anyway, and the TV crews can spare an extra couple reporters to cover the women's race.

 

[GPdesAmeriques]

But at the same time, the Giro d'Italia Femminile flourishes with its early July slot, at least in part because they hold stages fairly early in the day which means RAI's highlights package can be put together in time to append to the Tour de France coverage and take advantage of maximum crossover audience. And they must be doing something right, as highlights have increased from 10-15 minutes back in '08-'09 to 45-60 minutes for the last couple of years.

Flourishes? I thought the Giro Donne / Rosa almost didn't run this year. It seems to be well run, but it receives little coverage outside of Italy - understandable given that it's overshadowed by the Tour de France. There has been far more coverage of this petition in the mainstream press than anything about the Giro Rosa.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2013/07/12/marianne-vos-emma-pooley-women-tour-de-france/2511549/

I don't think the number of stages or race length is important. What's more important is the Tour de France name (which only ASO can provide), memorable locations (Mont Ventoux, Alpe d'Huez, Champs-Élysées, etc.) and media coverage. If the prize money is better than the Giro Rosa (only €450 for the winner this year) then that's an added bonus.

One problem is that there isn't currently a top French female cyclist which would help in getting the French media and sponsors interested. Too bad Marianne Vos isn't Marianne Renard.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Pauline has a shot at getting there eventually, though she might need to focus 100% on the road for that. Her rise hasn't been as meteoric as I originally anticipated, but she's still 21 so has plenty of time to become a star yet. She top 10ed La Flèche Wallonne as a 19 year old amateur with no team support (competing on the makeshift French national team), and is a double national champion in the ITT, so still prospects.

The next 3 highest ranked French women are Christel Ferrier-Bruneau, who is 34, Elise Delzenne who is 24 and the national champion thanks to a shock win from the break, but is not a professional and may not be able to race the Worlds thanks to not getting the time off work (!!!), and Edwige Pitel who is 46. Audrey Cordon, Aude Biannic, Roxane Fournier and Aurore Verhoeven are all potential names aged between 21 and 24 who have the potential to become pretty good level pros but it would seem that Ferrand-Prévot has more obvious potential breakout talent than them.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Pauline has a shot at getting there eventually, though she might need to focus 100% on the road for that. Her rise hasn't been as meteoric as I originally anticipated, but she's still 21 so has plenty of time to become a star yet. She top 10ed La Flèche Wallonne as a 19 year old amateur with no team support (competing on the makeshift French national team), and is a double national champion in the ITT, so still prospects.

The next 3 highest ranked French women are Christel Ferrier-Bruneau, who is 34, Elise Delzenne who is 24 and the national champion thanks to a shock win from the break, but is not a professional and may not be able to race the Worlds thanks to not getting the time off work (!!!), and Edwige Pitel who is 46. Audrey Cordon, Aude Biannic, Roxane Fournier and Aurore Verhoeven are all potential names aged between 21 and 24 who have the potential to become pretty good level pros but it would seem that Ferrand-Prévot has more obvious potential breakout talent than them.

I will not mind seeing Pauline Ferrand-Prevot in any race or any second.

 

[TheEnoculator]

I will not mind seeing Pauline Ferrand-Prevot in any race or any second.

Have to agree with you there. As much as I love Ferrand-Prevot's talents, she is certainly one beautiful woman. I can't ignore that.

 

[gustienordic]

I find this debate interesting. I have a sister who is a professional athlete (runner) and love that she has opportunities to do what she loves. At least in running there exists the same opportunity for women- run the same races (except the highest level ones of course). I think cycling certainly does NOT need that. Cycling needs a more durable women's tour, with more prestigious races and less world cup style racing. I think this is completely doable and should be attempted. It might be more "fair" to let them build up their "own" style of cycling, but its so much harder than men's cycling which is even struggling at times.

Therefore, I am in firm support of having the women do a shortened stage before the men. That is what they do for skiing and it is a huge success. The racing is so different from mens to womens - and may give us a respite from 200k stages of flat nothingness. Instead have the womens stage running, with TV cameras for both and switching back and forth whenever something exciting happens. Or, have the womens early enough before so that highlights can be shown anytime during the mens race. I think it could be a huge success.

As for the UCI regulations- perhaps ASO goes rogue with a trial non-sanctioned Women's Tour and if it is successful, then UCI will surely cave and be like "okay this rocks, lets get rid of a stupid rule."

Mens + Womens Tour = Great idea

 

[martinvickers]

I find this debate interesting. I have a sister who is a professional athlete (runner) and love that she has opportunities to do what she loves. At least in running there exists the same opportunity for women- run the same races (except the highest level ones of course). I think cycling certainly does NOT need that. Cycling needs a more durable women's tour, with more prestigious races and less world cup style racing. I think this is completely doable and should be attempted. It might be more "fair" to let them build up their "own" style of cycling, but its so much harder than men's cycling which is even struggling at times.

Therefore, I am in firm support of having the women do a shortened stage before the men. That is what they do for skiing and it is a huge success. The racing is so different from mens to womens - and may give us a respite from 200k stages of flat nothingness. Instead have the womens stage running, with TV cameras for both and switching back and forth whenever something exciting happens. Or, have the womens early enough before so that highlights can be shown anytime during the mens race. I think it could be a huge success.

As for the UCI regulations- perhaps ASO goes rogue with a trial non-sanctioned Women's Tour and if it is successful, then UCI will surely cave and be like "okay this rocks, lets get rid of a stupid rule."

Mens + Womens Tour = Great idea

If they had the slightest bit of wit, they could fiddle a bit with it so that the women do two key stages on the men's rest days - so they get that little stream of coverage to themselves.

Anyone who has watched a marathon on tv can tell you it;'s not actually that hard to follow simultaneous men and women racing - hell, if anything, it adds to it.

 

[TheBean]

How can an organization be strong armed to run a race that hasn't proven itself?

Rather than petitioning the ASO, which would do little but give them more paper to runthrough their shredder, petitioning the sponsors would be more effective. The sponsors have genuine leverage over the ASO since they write the checks.

The sponsors are all businesses that rely on the positive image their product receives from TV exposure from having their logo on athletes or banners near athletes.

If you are in the USA (to the OP), you can write to Garmin and let them know you will never purchase their GPS stuff until they also sponsor pro women's cycling. You can do the same for Radioshack, BMC bikes, etc.

Contacting your local NOW (National Organization for Women) chapter would be a quick route to a BUNCH of women who would be eager to help support your petition and boycott of products. No one wants to be in the cross-hairs of NOW.

If you think of every dollar you spend as a vote, you can choose to vote against companies that support a men-only event.

 

[auscyclefan94]

There is no compelling reason to watch womens cycling. It shouldn't be forced upon TV or races when there is no market for it.

Spot on. If the private sector really saw that there was a strong audience and interest in women's cycling, there would have been much stronger investment in the teams and the sport. That is simply not evident. The difference in standards of the top pro female cyclists and the bottom pro female cyclists is much larger than what it is in Men's cycling. Trying to equate female sport with male sport is always fraught with hypocrisy. The quote, "The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal" sums this up perfectly.

 

[TheBean]

I liked the idea one poster mentioned of having women race during the Tour's rest days. The world's eyes are on cycling at that time, so it seems the perfect way to promote women's cycling.

If women were to race tomorrow (day after men went up Ventoux) and also climb Ventoux, the strength of women athletes would be show-cased.

Times for the climb could be compared, which would further illustrate the strength of the female riders.

Or, the women could race the route scheduled for Tuesday with their race serving more as a preview than an afterthought.

Frankly, promoters of women's cycling need to step up their efforts, show some creativity, and do something - ANYTHING - to put women's cycling in the spotlight.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I liked the idea one poster mentioned of having women race during the Tour's rest days. The world's eyes are on cycling at that time, so it seems the perfect way to promote women's cycling.

If women were to race tomorrow (day after men went up Ventoux) and also climb Ventoux, the strength of women athletes would be show-cased.

Times for the climb could be compared, which would further illustrate the strength of the female riders.

Or, the women could race the route scheduled for Tuesday with their race serving more as a preview than an afterthought.

Frankly, promoters of women's cycling need to step up their efforts, show some creativity, and do something - ANYTHING - to put women's cycling in the spotlight.

I lol there. maybe the best woman would go up as fast as the bus did. who the **** would want to watch that

 

[auscyclefan94]

It's not that the women's ride whit de men but have there on race. les km's. but same finishing place's en almost the same track. Example the Guys ride a stage of 170/200 Km's start at 13.00 finish at 17:30. the women ride 110/140 and start at 11:00 and finish Around 15:00. People along the road see 2 race's instead of 1. when the tv registration start they can start whit showing the last 30/40 km of the women's.

It might work on some flat stages of a race but every other race I do not think it would work.