Pevenage confesses

[Benotti69]

.. I'm sure the rest of the sporting world would love to know. ....

i guess there 195 sporting world types who are praying the rest of the sporting world doesn't know...

 

[spectacle]

not really. 99 tour would have been much closer but without that crash LA/EPO still beats zulle by a minute or two. etiquette is to ride as you would if the crash hadn't occurred. waiting for people after crashes is not really standard practice. don't speed up to take advantage, don't slow down. if you crash, you have to WORK your way back into a race. said another way, if i crash or have a mechanical i don't expect anyone to wait for me. call me old school but there's an element of luck in bike racing.
.

if a small group crashed, then etiquette did not require waiting, but when half the peloton and most of the leaders were involved in a crash, etiquette, for all of the time i followed the sport* (from 1982 till 2006), required that the race be neutralized until the everyone was on square terms again. lance, himself, even applied this rule in a later tour when he was il patron.

the crash i'm talking about took out about 50% of the peloton and happened 92 km from the finish. lance was in yellow when it happened; the other riders who went with him all did so because he took off and he was the leader of the tour at that point.

without the crash, zulle would have been approximately a minute behind lance at the end of the race, as it occurred with the crash--but you cannot say what would have been the final time differential had the crash never happened. zulle was only 7 seconds behind lance when it happened. losing over 6 minutes on stage 2 has a huge psychological effect, plus it meant zulle entered the mountains behind lance instead of on par with him. the psychological effect of having to make up that much time is powerful.

don't misunderstand me, the epo certianly helped lance. and without it, zulle surely would have made that time up and then some (assuming lance even finished). zulle was undoubtedly on the juice too; he's pretty much admitted as much, but i'll take the odds on a doped zulle, with no crash, over a doped armstrong any day.

*i only follow the tabloid aspects of it now

 

[spectacle]

QUOTE]

I recall Landis descriptions as you do with micro-dosing EPO as the counter measure to blood doping.
Lance's approach on the stage where Zulle crashed was not sportsmanlike but there were others driving that split as well. I don't know who initiated it but I think all podium finishers were in on it.

thanks =)

there was chaos at first, but armstrong was in yellow and it was his call as leader of the race--had he said wait, everyone would have waited. armstrong and escartin benefited from the crash and were both on the final podium in 1st and 3rd respectively. zulle managed to pull himself back in to contention for 2nd overall. he was one the only pre-race favorite to able to do so: gotti, belli, rinero, robin etc. couldn't.

looking back at who won the stages that year, it's probably possible to guess the owner(s) of the 7 or so other dirty samples. my guess: zulle (who podiumed,) and kirisipu (who won a stage and lead the tour for 5 days) (since zulle won no stages, i assuming that he was only tested once or twice).

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1999/tour99/tour99.html

 

[Maxiton]

i'm a little surprised by CN's translation of the quote i mentioned above. perhaps they have access to other comments, i don't know. but i am concerned that they do not mention pevenage's clear accusation of armstrong.

Further proof, if any is needed, that commercial media are shameless whores for . . . commercial interests! If they do this for a minor sideshow like cycling, imagine what they do on behalf of state authorities.

This is particularly hypocritical of Bob Stapleton given that his resident team director is (and probably where Bob gets any of his knowledge about cycling from) former T-Mobile domestique Rolf Aldag, confessed EPO doper from 95-99.

I want to like Bob - but he keeps giving me reasons to think he is just like one of those rich America's Cup dudes except instead of buying a 40million dollar racing yacht he bought a bike team.

If you said that in front of him he'd probably say, "Yeah, and your point is?"

In truth, though, I'm cool with rich guys buying teams that they manage themselves. In many (most) ways that's better than a corporation doing it. At least its more human. I prefer it when the rich guy is low on the dick scale, rather than higher (Michael Ball), but in general it seems OK. You have a point, though, about his dissing of the snitch. Bob Stapleton has learned well, it seems.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I would not say Jens is entirely right. Whenever you state that someone should "...substantiate his claims or be quiet." you're basically enforcing the omerta as I see it. How much evidence does Jens really think Rudy should have before confessing? I beg to differ that Jens is saying Rudy should out everyone. It sounds more to me like he'd like Rudy,along with everyone else who knows the sport has been doped to the gills to just shut up and pretend there's no elephant in the room.

What cycling needs is more of the truth, and no doping. There is NO indication from everything we've learned over the last two decades that cycling has not had serious doping problems and Rudy is lying. None at all. And the more we can get riders to support people like Rudy (or Floyd, or Kohl, or Papp, or Manzano, etc.) to confess, regardless of how much details and hard evidence they can provide, the better.

 

[Maxiton]

I would not say Jens is entirely right. Whenever you state that someone should "...substantiate his claims or be quiet." you're basically enforcing the omerta as I see it. How much evidence does Jens really think Rudy should have before confessing? I beg to differ that Jens is saying Rudy should out everyone. It sounds more to me like he'd like Rudy,along with everyone else who knows the sport has been doped to the gills to just shut up and pretend there's no elephant in the room.

What cycling needs is more of the truth, and no doping. There is NO indication from everything we've learned over the last two decades that cycling has not had serious doping problems and Rudy is lying. None at all. And the more we can get riders to support people like Rudy (or Floyd, or Kohl, or Papp, or Manzano, etc.) to confess, regardless of how much details and hard evidence they can provide, the better.

Right. "Substantiate his claims or be quiet" makes no sense at all in the context Jens uses it. Pevenage is confessing, or beginning to, and accusing only by inference. So he should substantiate his own confession? OK, Jens, but be careful of what you ask for.

 

[Joey_J]

Yeah, I'm questioning Rudy's truth-telling regarding organized doping. Perhaps it's a translation thing but I have to believe the riders were doping after '98 with the team's knowledge. Maybe the organization of the program shifted from team to rider but I have a hard time believing most of those guys were not on the hot sauce during the time frame of '98 thru 2002.

Please; come back to reality. In 99, JU won the Vuelta and was World Champ. In 2000, he was 2nd in the Tour and Olympic Champ. In 2001 he was again 2nd in the Tour and World Champ. Rudy is playing you for a fool.

 

[arrhythmia rules]

I think/hope Jens is saying "if you have something to tell tell it" and lets get on with it, this constant innuendo type reportage merely damages cycling without settling anything. This might imply that Jens has nothing to hide - nice thought.

However I think these little trickles of information help others to tell bits. Hopefully it will build and the trickle become a stream. But again Pevenage maybe does not have that much to loose and we need others who have more to loose to speak out.

 

[Anonymous]

Please; come back to reality. In 99, JU won the Vuelta and was World Champ. In 2000, he was 2nd in the Tour and Olympic Champ. In 2001 he was again 2nd in the Tour and World Champ. Rudy is playing you for a fool.

Rudy's playing me for a fool becaue I think he's a liar? He says the organized doping at T-Mobile stopped after '98. I think he's being less than honest. JU's results after '98 would seem to support the idea of being on a full programme.

Not sure what you're getting at here...

 

[Cobblestones]

Rudy's playing me for a fool becaue I think he's a liar? He says the organized doping at T-Mobile stopped after '98. I think he's being less than honest. JU's results after '98 would seem to support the idea of being on a full programme.

Not sure what you're getting at here...

Well, depends how you parse it.

Maybe organized doping stopped after '98, doesn't mean individual doping stopped. Also, doesn't mean it never started again...

As someone said earlier in this thread, he might just admit stuff way back in time outside the statutes of limitation.

 

[perico]

if a small group crashed, then etiquette did not require waiting, but when half the peloton and most of the leaders were involved in a crash etiquette, for all of the time i followed the sport* (from 1982 till 2006), required that the race be neutralized until the everyone was on square terms again. lance, himself, even applied this rule in a later tour when he was il patron.

the crash i'm talking about took out about 50% of the peloton and happened 92 km from the finish. lance was in yellow when it happened; the yellow jersey shouldn't act that way--had he behaved like the yellow jersey, he would have waited and the other riders would have waited with him no questions asked. the other riders who went with him all did so because he took off and he was the leader of the tour at that point.

without the crash, zulle would have been approximately a minute behind lance at the end of the race, as it occurred with the crash--but you cannot say what would have been the final time differential had the crash never happened. zulle was only 7 seconds behind lance when it happened. losing over 6 minutes on stage 2 has a huge psychological effect, plus it meant zulle entered the mountains behind lance instead of on par with him. the psychological effect of having to make up that much time is powerful.

don't misunderstand me, the epo certianly helped lance. and without it, zulle certainty would have made that time up and then some (assuming lance even finished). zulle was undoubtedly on the juice too; he's pretty much admitted as much, but i'll take the odds on a doped zulle, with no crash, over a doped armstrong any day.

*i only follow the tabloid aspects of it now

And if Bobby Julich hadn't crashed out in the TT where he was I think the next best of the contenders at the timecheck, maybe he would've podiumed and wouldn't have spiraled for the next 3 years. who knows where he would've finished, just like we don't know how close Zulle would've been... would've could've should've is nothing more than speculation at this point.

 

[Big GMaC]

Rudy's playing me for a fool becaue I think he's a liar? He says the organized doping at T-Mobile stopped after '98. I think he's being less than honest. JU's results after '98 would seem to support the idea of being on a full programme.

Not sure what you're getting at here...

Well, maybe, but many people are in agreement over Ulle's natural talent. If that was a cleaner period (Aside from USPS) him having stronger results could be that natural ability showing itself

 

[Animal]

Just an interesting perspective from some random brit trying to make it in Europe: http://joshandjelkovic.blogspot.com/2010/06/another-perspective.html

He seems to be saying that the sport is so hard, that you have to dope. Well just do it as a f-uck-ing hobby then, t-osser!

Another interesting little snippet for the head-in-the-sand fanboys: "Maybe it is the British mentality of fair play that refuses to believe that riders charge up"

Nobody forces you to be a pro cyclist.

 

[Animal]

Augh. My missus hijacked my laptop and Facebook friended me with this guy, and now he's ranting at me for criticizing dopers:

Believe me it is much worse than Landis makes out, but it would probably crush you to be told.

 

[ellenbrook2001]

wowwwwwwwwwwwwwww

why you behave has kids wake up you peoples every one in the top level what ever sport all dope okie how ortherwise they could survive your comment are so childist you want competition you want action so you got it okie stop

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

He seems to be saying that the sport is so hard, that you have to dope. Well just do it as a f-uck-ing hobby then, t-osser! ...Nobody forces you to be a pro cyclist.

+1. There's nothing wrong with being a good local amateur racer.

Augh...Facebook friended me with this guy, and now he's ranting at me for criticizing dopers:

Sounds like BigBoat (or RealGains).

 

[BroDeal]

why you behave has kids wake up you peoples every one in the top level what ever sport all dope okie how ortherwise they could survive your comment are so childist you want competition you want action so you got it okie stop

Jeebus! They are developing their own language now.

 

[craig1985]

One of the many local cyclists I know and ride with, one of them was a former professional based in Germany (where he spent the majority of his career), knows a stack of people, from Erik Zabel's wife, Allan Pieper, the people behind Team Coast (more the management) etc., so when I said that I though it was pretty obvious that Ullrich was on EPO for his Tour win since I would find it hard to believe that as a young bloke on Telekom that he wouldn't take anything when guys like Riis, Zabel, Aldag etc. were all on the juice, he just looked at me and said because I couldn't prove that Ullrich took EPO (as in court of law type proof), so therefore I had to assume he did it clean, because I had to remember that Ullrich's was a pretty strong bike rider.

It's only because I'm too polite that stopped me from saying that he was a load of ****.