Phil and Paul

[BillytheKid]

Previously posted on the Radio Shack Nissan Trek thread.

I am generally am good with Phil Liggett. A sports announcer has to remain enthusiastic about their call, appeal to a broad audience, or face unemployment. His enthusiasm also appeals to those who are becoming interested sport. It certainly did to me some 25 years ago. I am really grateful for that because it was a part of an interest that led of some good racing years.

It is all to easy nitpick a call if you've raced or are an educated fan, and I think I even blasted a post off in your direction last night, but maybe gaffed and missed the real issue. That said Phil, we own you a lot.

Now that I've dated myself, you can probably sense I building to something here.

I am going to have to call Phil out on a failure at fair play. As an announcer and a supporter of cycling he should know the importance of sponsorship. It is important to give sponsors their due.

Why is Radio Shack Nissan Trek a "mouthful" when it has the same number of syllables as Omega Pharma Quickstep or the former Omega Pharma Lotto? I certainly never have heard Phil or Paul call the later a "mouthful."

If the issue is the third sponsor being tolerated, then say so!

Surly he can manage Radio Shack Nissan with the occasional reference to the Trek bike if he has an issue.
Perhaps Phil has been influence of the the diatribe voiced at Radio Shack Nissan Trek on this forum on the issue of the third sponsor.

One thing is for certain. It certainly not a matter of pronunciation.

 

[Thomsena]

It's a stupid name. Can't bother saying RadioShack Nissan Trek and I undestand if they don't either - even if it damaging the sponsorship.

Omega Pharma Quickstep might have the same number of syllables but it much easier to say.

 

[BillytheKid]

It's a stupid name. Can't bother saying RadioShack Nissan Trek and I undestand if they don't either - even if it damaging the sponsorship.

Omega Pharma Quickstep might have the same number of syllables but it much easier to say.

I think you may be suffering from the same problem as Phil. I don't really think one's particularly harder to say than the other. That's not the heart of the matter.

You may not like the team. That's fine. The word "shack" dose not bother me. The Brand name dates back to the 1960s when the term was made popular possibly by the hit song "Sugar Shack" 1963.

The word "stupid" is a mouthful.

 

[Thomsena]

It has nothing to do with 'not liking' the team. Where.. Why..?

And you are wrong. It IS much easier to say Omega Pharma Quickstep.

 

[Anonymous]

These two cretins (P&P) have been spewing forth the same oxymoronic clichés for years. They are simply paradoxical bores.

I watched the stage of the TDU on Sat am here in the UK and their complete lack of racing knowledge was astounding.

They talk 99% Tom Kite most of the time.

 

[Llewellyn]

On ya Paul

I try and estimate how long it will be before a rider "digs into his suitcase of courage"

 

[craig1985]

I try and estimate how long it will be before a rider "digs into his suitcase of courage"

Sherwen did that with Thomas de Ghendt on the first time they did Willunga Hill.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Liggett was commenting about Chicchi winning a few years ago on this circuit and then he made a comment about him being in the race but the only problem was that Chicchi was actually in Argentina.

 

[Anonymous]

This is Tommy Danielson's year! He's going to win everything. There's no room for Hincapie posts this year.

He's gonna' light it up!!

 

[mewmewmew13]

I'd rather listen to a Dutch/Flemish stream that I only recognise the odd words than listen to Carlton Kirby "commentate" (I use the word loosely).

I agree also insert the words 'Phil & Paul' here....

 

[Herr Katt]

Do you guys remember the stage to Pinerolo in this years tour. I think it was Jonathan Hivert from Saur-Sojasun who went out in the woods on the decent. Phil - "Ooh someone has gone down, I think it is OLANO"

Man that was funny. Funny as hell.

 

[FreeWheelin]

Previously posted on the Radio Shack Nissan Trek thread.

I am generally am good with Phil Liggett. A sports announcer has to remain enthusiastic about their call, appeal to a broad audience, or face unemployment. His enthusiasm also appeals to those who are becoming interested sport. It certainly did to me some 25 years ago. I am really grateful for that because it was a part of an interest that led of some good racing years.

It is all to easy nitpick a call if you've raced or are an educated fan, and I think I even blasted a post off in your direction last night, but maybe gaffed and missed the real issue. That said Phil, we own you a lot.

Now that I've dated myself, you can probably sense I building to something here.

I am going to have to call Phil out on a failure at fair play. As an announcer and a supporter of cycling he should know the importance of sponsorship. It is important to give sponsors their due.

Why is Radio Shack Nissan Trek a "mouthful" when it has the same number of syllables as Omega Pharma Quickstep or the former Omega Pharma Lotto? I certainly never have heard Phil or Paul call the later a "mouthful."

If the issue is the third sponsor being tolerated, then say so!

Surly he can manage Radio Shack Nissan with the occasional reference to the Trek bike if he has an issue.
Perhaps Phil has been influence of the the diatribe voiced at Radio Shack Nissan Trek on this forum on the issue of the third sponsor.

One thing is for certain. It certainly not a matter of pronunciation.

The first half of this post is great i agree 100% The second... pfft talk about nitpicking.

 

[jens_attacks]

Do you guys remember the stage to Pinerolo in this years tour. I think it was Jonathan Hivert from Saur-Sojasun who went out in the woods on the decent. Phil - "Ooh someone has gone down, I think it is OLANO"

Man that was funny. Funny as hell.

lol he was just 15 years late no biggie

 

[UpTheRoad]

I don't know if this is a uniquely North American phenomena. The dreaded fear of "dead air". I can not think of a televised sporting event where the commentators are not constantly yammering on and on and on. It makes me nuts!
I've watched some English Premier League football and had the good fortune of hearing Martin Tyler's commentary. In my view, he offers quality insight to broadcast.

Last year during the Amgen TOC, the Shacktracker was live before the TV feed came on. There were no commentators, no helicopter overdubs, nothing but the motorcycle feed from the bike race. It didn't last long, but it was really cool (if only for the novelty).

The only thing I would have missed if there were a breakaway or any attacks. There, you would probably need someone on air to sort it all out for the viewer. Though I am sure if the screen were constantly updated, you could see where the feed was in the race at any given time, and where the other group(s) were.

 

[BillytheKid]

The first half of this post is great i agree 100% The second... pfft talk about nitpicking.

I've just never heard a professional announcer call a sponsored team a "mouthful."

 

[FreeWheelin]

I've just never heard a professional announcer call a sponsored team a "mouthful."

Ok, fair enough. While I cant give you any specific examples (of an announcer calling a sponsored team a mouthful) it did not strike me as being out of the ordinary. I also think that Radioshack Nissan Trek is a mouthful. It is hard to say because radio has 3 syllables and you are only halfway through the first of 3 words. Omega Phama Lotto rolls of the tongue, it is like a nice line in poetry. Omega and Phama rhyme and Lotto is a nice end to the phrase.

Anyway, enough of that crap.

I think Phil gets a hard time. He does a great job of making cycling exiting to non cycling viewers. Lets be honest cycling has a lot of dull times, we don't mind because it is just an essential part of the sport we love, if we were to say what we thought of the race to non-cycling fans they would turn off until ten minutes to go. Take for example stage 6 of the TDU, there is a breakaway of 3 that has 50 seconds, we did not think for one second that they had even half a chance of succeeding, yet Phil talked it up like it was supper exiting because they just might win. Phil has watched a lot of cycling for a lot of years so he also knows that it is not going to succeed but if you say 'look that break is a waste of time, just sit back until the last lap because nothing is going to happen', guess what the views do.

If you try and fill 3 hours of a road stage with non stop talking you are going to say some silly things and make some mistakes too.

 

[Siriuscat]

Liggett and Sherwin are a joke, I'd rather have my nails pulled than listen to them, the sport has moved on from Armstrong, his main cheerleaders need to do the same.

I loved Duffers, the Tour primarily is more than just the race, Duffers made the commentary more than just the race. Kirby is the biggest joke on the box, if you think his cycling is bad you want to hear him on Ice Hockey, he should be forever banned from a microphone!

I can listen to Harmon quite easily and when Brian Smith gets over the wee bit of Armstrong stuff he's great to listen to, as someone from the west coast of Scotland he's easiest to understand as well!!

Kelly is great too his knowledge is exceptional and Magnus does add that element too.

 

[rata de sentina]

If you try and fill 3 hours of a road stage with non stop talking you are going to say some silly things and make some mistakes too.

That argument is meaningless because:

(1) It is not just "some silly things" and "some mistakes" it is many silly things and many mistakes.

and most importantly

(2) There are many other commentators who do successfully manage to do this without anything like the same level of errors or manifestly incorrect statements.

 

[BillytheKid]

Ok, fair enough. While I cant give you any specific examples (of an announcer calling a sponsored team a mouthful) it did not strike me as being out of the ordinary. I also think that Radioshack Nissan Trek is a mouthful. It is hard to say because radio has 3 syllables and you are only halfway through the first of 3 words. Omega Phama Lotto rolls of the tongue, it is like a nice line in poetry. Omega and Phama rhyme and Lotto is a nice end to the phrase.

Anyway, enough of that crap.

I think Phil gets a hard time. He does a great job of making cycling exiting to non cycling viewers. Lets be honest cycling has a lot of dull times, we don't mind because it is just an essential part of the sport we love, if we were to say what we thought of the race to non-cycling fans they would turn off until ten minutes to go. Take for example stage 6 of the TDU, there is a breakaway of 3 that has 50 seconds, we did not think for one second that they had even half a chance of succeeding, yet Phil talked it up like it was supper exiting because they just might win. Phil has watched a lot of cycling for a lot of years so he also knows that it is not going to succeed but if you say 'look that break is a waste of time, just sit back until the last lap because nothing is going to happen', guess what the views do.

If you try and fill 3 hours of a road stage with non stop talking you are going to say some silly things and make some mistakes too.

Radio rolls off my tongue fine, but not so for others. Omega also has three syllables. "Pharma" rhymes with "karma" much better than "Omega." Omega Pharma Lotto is also more familiar, especially the "Lotto" which helps, as does Quickstep.

The "Shack" is a a stopper though. I think I posted that it dates the franchise back to the early 1960s with the number one song "Sugar Shack" 1963. Dated, but embedded in a brand name now.

I agree with a lot of the rest of what you said, especially the last sentence. I know I would.

 

[Race Radio]

Ok, fair enough. While I cant give you any specific examples (of an announcer calling a sponsored team a mouthful) it did not strike me as being out of the ordinary. I also think that Radioshack Nissan Trek is a mouthful. It is hard to say because radio has 3 syllables and you are only halfway through the first of 3 words. Omega Phama Lotto rolls of the tongue, it is like a nice line in poetry. Omega and Phama rhyme and Lotto is a nice end to the phrase.

Anyway, enough of that crap.

I think Phil gets a hard time. He does a great job of making cycling exiting to non cycling viewers. Lets be honest cycling has a lot of dull times, we don't mind because it is just an essential part of the sport we love, if we were to say what we thought of the race to non-cycling fans they would turn off until ten minutes to go. Take for example stage 6 of the TDU, there is a breakaway of 3 that has 50 seconds, we did not think for one second that they had even half a chance of succeeding, yet Phil talked it up like it was supper exiting because they just might win. Phil has watched a lot of cycling for a lot of years so he also knows that it is not going to succeed but if you say 'look that break is a waste of time, just sit back until the last lap because nothing is going to happen', guess what the views do.

If you try and fill 3 hours of a road stage with non stop talking you are going to say some silly things and make some mistakes too.

I agree that the ability to babble is an important part of being a commentator. Phil and Paul do a good job of filling the air with fluff. What is inexcusable is their mindless defense of the cash cow and the way they talk down to the viewers.

We have had live bike racing in the states for over a decade. Even the niche events like Cross Nationals had 32,000 on line viewers. It is time to stop talking to the fans like they are morons.

 

[baggage]

I've lurked this forum for about two years now, saw this thread and I was finally compelled to post.
It baffles me that so many television commentators are so terrible. I grew up listening to sports (baseball primarily), and I still prefer it to watching the game. There's just something about being able to not be visually invested in something, but still know whats going on. Baseball and cycling...different sports with one major commonality- long periods of low action (except classics, glued then) and there needs to be entertaining, but hopefully not monotonous filler. On this level, P&P are atrocious.

I currently don't have a TV, so I stream everything live- but I'm usually at work for the big races (Giro, Tour) and have gotten used to listening while doing something else. Harmon and Kelly are incredible at keeping people engaged verbally. Sure, you're able to tune a bunch out, but you its pretty clear what's going on at every stage of the race.

I just rewatched the finish of Stage 5 of the TDU and WOW is P&P off. Astounding levels of off. When I got introduced to this wonderful sport, I thought Phil was king. To me he was the voice of cycling. These days its pathetic. I do wonder if part of it is due to age and he's just not able to fire those synapses fast enough, but I'm still amazed.

 

[avanti]

Phil and Paul are commentators for people who know nothing about cycling, I don't know how many times I've heard them explain a pace line. ...........

You are correct. NBC Sports (formerly Versus) probably require that Phil and Paul provide commentry to the non-cycling audience who buy Miller beer. I'm sure that they dislike having to discuss upcoming non-cycling events but that is what the program director whispers in their ear or puts on the teleprompter. Maybe one day we will have a true cycling channel.

 

[Tei6chai]

the best combination i've ever heard and i think it was the perfect one:

adriano de zan,a poet of cycling,defintely the voice of it and cassani.
on rai now is like there are two cassani's i don't like it.pancani has no flavour like de zan or bulbarelli.

No, question. The best combination and I agree with the criticism of Pancani.

But Davide Cassani is the best technical commentator I've heard on any station, in any language I understand ... by a country mile!

It's such a shame that monoglot anglophones never get to hear him.

He actually speaks passable English, by Italian standards, but maybe not good enough for live commentary.

 

[dlwssonic]

Wow phil is really crap. I was watching stage 5 of the tdu. He was so confident of Gerrans winning and kept on putting down Valverde's chances. And he called him Alessandro Valverde

 

[will10]

Wow phil is really crap. I was watching stage 5 of the tdu. He was so confident of Gerrans winning and kept on putting down Valverde's chances. And he called him Alessandro Valverde

"Here goes Simon Gerrans, Valverde's after him but he won't catch Gerrans, Simon Gerrans charging towards the line to wi...oh he might catch him you know, here comes Valverde....oh."