Philippe Gilbert Discussion Thread

[spalco]

Re: Re:

Already forgetting Gilbert's victory in Flanders? His dominance in Amstel and the WC (Cancellara never came close to the WC, Boonen was not the strongest when he won), his victories in Lombardia.
Would Boonen and Cancellara be able to win Liége or Lombardia? I don't think so. Boonen never even won Sanremo, a race that was right up his alley.

Cancellara did "come close" in Mendrisio for what it's worth (not much I suppose), and also won an Olympic medal on the road.

 

[VDB44]

And there's one other factor I take in consideration:
Boonen is and was a funny and likable guy, loved in the peloton.
Gilbert, Valverde and Bettini also well liked and respected in the peloton.
And then you have Cancellara; a two faced tw*t.
So, no way I put Cancellara above Boonen and Gilbert. :razz:

 

[Blanco]

Re:

What would we consider the bottom end of great one day racers? 3 big wins? Like cutting off after Cunego and Nibali?

Anything to exclude Gerrans really

If we're talking about current greats, or greats of this century, I'm not so sure we can exclude Gerrans completely, but if we are talking about all-time greats then even Nibali and Cunego has no place in that discussion.

 

[Salvarani]

Re: Re:

Gilbert's palmares is absolutely insane and if you go only by that, he's probably the best one-day rider of the 21st century. But I find it difficult to acknowledge him as such because he's barely even been the best Belgian classics rider in his whole career. Obviously there was Boonen until 2012 (with the exception of 2011) and from there on GVA was better up until last year.

Possibly the fact that he wasn't that super dominant (bar 2011) and also that both Liège and Lombardia were changing (the latter becoming more of a reduced uphill bunch sprint and the latter a climbers classic) thus making it harder for him to win, made it easier to switch to the cobbles and now he's ended up with a unique palmares in modern cycling. Big kudos to him for making that call as I think Gilbert is incredibly smart and knows better than anyone what he can and what he can't do.

But for me that's not enough to put him in the Boonen/Cancellara-league.

Lol how are Boonen and Cancellara in a higher league than Gilbert?

Because they didn't only win and podium more big races, but also in more impressive fashion. And if not for crashes or other circumstances, I believe they could have won even more, unlike Gilbert.

They were strong riders, yes. And most times simply won being the strongest in the race. In their peak years it was literally them against each other for awhile.

Unlike Gilbert they were not as versatile or tactical. Gilbert has won a lot of different type of races and in very different ways. He has also had a lot more rivals and other riders equally as good or better. He still winning.

I will hold Gilbert higher.

 

[Breh]

And there's one other factor I take in consideration:
Boonen is and was a funny and likable guy, loved in the peloton.
Gilbert, Valverde and Bettini also well liked and respected in the peloton.
And then you have Cancellara; a two faced tw*t.
So, no way I put Cancellara above Boonen and Gilbert. :razz:

^

 

[Scarponi]

Where does Rebellin stand? Even though he had top 5s in monuments in 1995-6

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

What would we consider the bottom end of great one day racers? 3 big wins? Like cutting off after Cunego and Nibali?

Anything to exclude Gerrans really

If we're talking about current greats, or greats of this century, I'm not so sure we can exclude Gerrans completely, but if we are talking about all-time greats then even Nibali and Cunego has no place in that discussion.

Just the century.

 

[Blanco]

Where does Rebellin stand? Even though he had top 5s in monuments in 1995-6

Next to Van Avermaet, Kwiatkowski and Kristoff...

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

What would we consider the bottom end of great one day racers? 3 big wins? Like cutting off after Cunego and Nibali?

Anything to exclude Gerrans really

If we're talking about current greats, or greats of this century, I'm not so sure we can exclude Gerrans completely, but if we are talking about all-time greats then even Nibali and Cunego has no place in that discussion.

Just the century.

Then we could make a top 10, where Gerrans would be slightly below..

 

[tobydawq]

I think van der Poel is the one with most one-day race victories of them all

 

[SafeBet]

Where does Rebellin stand? Even though he had top 5s in monuments in 1995-6

Very consistent, with fewer wins and podiums than most other riders mentioned in this thread.
Most top10 in Monuments + WCRR + ORR:

Philippe Gilbert 25
Tom Boonen 24
Fabian Cancellara 24
Alejandro Valverde 23
Paolo Bettini 23
Davide Rebellin 21
Peter Sagan 18
Oscar Freire 18 (10 in MSR and 8 in WCRR )

Honestly, the more statistics I check, the stronger the case for Gilbert as top one day rider of the century gets.

 

[Salvarani]

Gilbert chance to win MSR is bad weather making it extremely hard and difficult or a late attack like Nibali.

Stranger things have happened...

 

[Asero831]

Where does Rebellin stand? Even though he had top 5s in monuments in 1995-6

Very consistent, with fewer wins and podiums than most other riders mentioned in this thread.
Most top10 in Monuments + WCRR + ORR:

Philippe Gilbert 25
Tom Boonen 24
Fabian Cancellara 24
Alejandro Valverde 23
Paolo Bettini 23
Davide Rebellin 21
Peter Sagan 18
Oscar Freire 18 (10 in MSR and 8 in WCRR )

Honestly, the more statistics I check, the stronger the case for Gilbert as top one day rider of the century gets.

Valverde has 40 if you include the 3GT.

 

[Bardamu]

Re: Re:

Gilbert's palmares is absolutely insane and if you go only by that, he's probably the best one-day rider of the 21st century. But I find it difficult to acknowledge him as such because he's barely even been the best Belgian classics rider in his whole career. Obviously there was Boonen until 2012 (with the exception of 2011) and from there on GVA was better up until last year.

Possibly the fact that he wasn't that super dominant (bar 2011) and also that both Liège and Lombardia were changing (the latter becoming more of a reduced uphill bunch sprint and the latter a climbers classic) thus making it harder for him to win, made it easier to switch to the cobbles and now he's ended up with a unique palmares in modern cycling. Big kudos to him for making that call as I think Gilbert is incredibly smart and knows better than anyone what he can and what he can't do.

But for me that's not enough to put him in the Boonen/Cancellara-league.

Lol how are Boonen and Cancellara in a higher league than Gilbert?

Because they didn't only win and podium more big races, but also in more impressive fashion. And if not for crashes or other circumstances, I believe they could have won even more, unlike Gilbert.

They were strong riders, yes. And most times simply won being the strongest in the race. In their peak years it was literally them against each other for awhile.

Unlike Gilbert they were not as versatile or tactical. Gilbert has won a lot of different type of races and in very different ways. He has also had a lot more rivals and other riders equally as good or better. He still winning.

I will hold Gilbert higher.

This is often stated, but surprises me a bit. In their peak years they just encountered eachother in 2010 when Cancellara demolished Boonen. In 2011 Cancellara was stronger, but they both didn't win. In 2012 Boonen won but that was because Cancellara crashed out and in 2013 Cancellara won with Boonen crashing out. Boonen was never close to Cancellara's level since then. In his early years he was stronger though, but Cancellara began his peak later in his career.

 

[Bardamu]

And there's one other factor I take in consideration:
Boonen is and was a funny and likable guy, loved in the peloton.
Gilbert, Valverde and Bettini also well liked and respected in the peloton.
And then you have Cancellara; a two faced tw*t.
So, no way I put Cancellara above Boonen and Gilbert. :razz:

Hehe, well every sport needs it's villain doesn't it? Felt a bit sad though for Cancellara when I saw him on Belgian tv recently. The guy obviously is not in a good place atm.

 

[Salvarani]

And there's one other factor I take in consideration:
Boonen is and was a funny and likable guy, loved in the peloton.
Gilbert, Valverde and Bettini also well liked and respected in the peloton.
And then you have Cancellara; a two faced tw*t.
So, no way I put Cancellara above Boonen and Gilbert. :razz:

Hehe, well every sport needs it's villain doesn't it? Felt a bit sad though for Cancellara when I saw him on Belgian tv recently. The guy obviously is not in a good place atm.

Whats up with Cancellara?

Im out of the loop on whats been happening since he retired

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Obviously there was Boonen until 2012 (with the exception of 2011) and from there on GVA was better up until last year.

I fail to see that. I know it is portrayed like that in the Flemish media, but I don't really get it.

Comparing major wins (because winning is what it's all about in cycling, right?) (using wikipedia for this):

2012: Greg won nothing, Phil became world champion.
2013: Greg won nothing worth mentioning, Phil at least won a stage in the Vuelta.
2014: Greg again won nothing worth mentioning. He did podium Flanders & Omloop though. Phil won Brabantse Pijl and Amstel.
2015: Again only podiums for Greg. Phil won 2 stages in the Giro.
2016: No doubt Greg had a far better season than Phil, winning Olympics, Tireno, Omloop.
2017: Well, this is a close one imho. Greg won Paris-Roubaix, Omloop, E3 and Gent-Wevelgem. But Phil won Flanders and Amstel, so this is not far behind (if anything).
2018: they both won nothing significant I think? Gregs best achievement was holding on to the yellow jersey for a week or so after a TTT.
2019: Well, so far, Phil > Greg, again. Big time.

I'd say except for 2016, even in his BMC years Phil had better results than Greg.

Out of curiosity, who do you consider to be the better rider: Jurgen Van den Broeck or Bart Declercq?

Edit: typo

 

[Angliru]

Re:

What would we consider the bottom end of great one day racers? 3 big wins? Like cutting off after Cunego and Nibali?

Anything to exclude Gerrans really

I'm all for that.

 

[Blanco]

Gilbert became a member of elite 9 men club who won 4 different Monuments.
Others are: Louison Bobet, Fred De Bruyne, Germain Derycke, Rik Van Looy, Eddy Merckx, Roger De Vlaeminck, Hennie Kuiper and Sean Kelly.

And he became a member of even more elite club of only 5 riders who won 4 different Monuments and a WCRR.
Other 4 are: Louison Bobet, Rik Van Looy, Eddy Merckx and Hennie Kuiper.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I hope with the wolf pack he can win San Remo next year. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes all in for that.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Re: Re:

What would we consider the bottom end of great one day racers? 3 big wins? Like cutting off after Cunego and Nibali?

Anything to exclude Gerrans really

If we're talking about current greats, or greats of this century, I'm not so sure we can exclude Gerrans completely, but if we are talking about all-time greats then even Nibali and Cunego has no place in that discussion.

Just the century.

Then we could make a top 10, where Gerrans would be slightly below..

We could do a Top 20 and see if he is pushed out. :lol:

 

[Salvarani]

Re:

I hope with the wolf pack he can win San Remo next year. I wouldn't be surprised if he goes all in for that.

He must, would be crazy if he won it

 

[Koronin]

He has to go all in for MSR next year and I would think the team would be fully behind him for that.

 

[Leinster]

Re:

He has to go all in for MSR next year and I would think the team would be fully behind him for that.

They were all behind Tommeke winning his final Roubaix. He finished 13th and Stybar got outsprinted for the win. QS’s strength is in supporting the strongest, best positioned rider on the day.


It would be fantastic if he were to do it, but I suspect it will not be Lefevere’s priority, as much as making sure someone from his team is in the sprint on the Via Roma.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

He has to go all in for MSR next year and I would think the team would be fully behind him for that.

They were all behind Tommeke winning his final Roubaix. He finished 13th and Stybar got outsprinted for the win. QS’s strength is in supporting the strongest, best positioned rider on the day.


It would be fantastic if he were to do it, but I suspect it will not be Lefevere’s priority, as much as making sure someone from his team is in the sprint on the Via Roma.

I think just like with Tommeke in his final Roubaix, Gilbert will be given the opportunity to try to go after MSR for the next however many years he has left. That doesn't exclude other DQS riders from being in the mix or trying to win either. That will be determined by what is required during the race.