Philippe Gilbert on Fire!

[Angliru]

In this article Gilbert says that he is not planning to share the leadership with GVA and later GVA replies that he does not think Gilbert is right. At least that is what I understand from it.

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/article/detail.aspx?articleid=B33J2DND

Translation:

http://www.worldonbike.org/2011/12/...mc-in-spite-of-gilberts-arrival/#.TuJHBNXllRR

Please correct me in the case that my memory is failing me but I recall that GVA was the last remnant of a break when overtaken by Gilbert and the Schlecks. It's not unreasonable to expect someone in GVA's position to not have as fresh legs as Gilbert and the Schleck's upon them reeling him in. It's seems a bit unfair for Gilbert to use this as part of his argument in saying that GVA is simply not at the level it takes to garner some type of status higher than Gilbert's personal water boy.

Me thinks Gilbert's hair dye has seeped into his scalp and effected his ability to think rationally. In other words he seems a bit greedy and doing little to inspire his teammate to work for him when the time comes. If I were GVA I'd give half-hearted efforts in helping Gilbert and save myself for when he stumbles, because his magnificent form cannot last forever and there will come a day when he isn't the big dog in the pack. He's in need of a bit of humility.

I can't see the point of belittling a valuable member of your team to the media. Gilbert is riding the wave of his success and dominance for all it's worth.

It should be no surprise that GVA states that he doesn't agree with what Gilbert says. It was insulting, demeaning and it seems to me his intent was to belittle GVA.

 

[El Pistolero]

Please correct me in the case that my memory is failing me but I recall that GVA was the last remnant of a break when overtaken by Gilbert and the Schlecks. It's not unreasonable to expect someone in GVA's position to not have as fresh legs as Gilbert and the Schleck's upon them reeling him in. It's seems a bit unfair for Gilbert to use this as part of his argument in saying that GVA is simply not at the level it takes to garner some type of status higher than Gilbert's personal water boy.

Me thinks Gilbert's hair dye has seeped into his scalp and effected his ability to think rationally. In other words he seems a bit greedy and doing little to inspire his teammate to work for him when the time comes. If I were GVA I'd give half-hearted efforts in helping Gilbert and save myself for when he stumbles, because his magnificent form cannot last forever and there will come a day when he isn't the big dog in the pack. He's in need of a bit of humility.

I can't see the point of belittling a valuable member of your team to the media. Gilbert is riding the wave of his success and dominance for all it's worth.

It should be no surprise that GVA states that he doesn't agree with what Gilbert says. It was insulting, demeaning and it seems to me his intent was to belittle GVA.

That's because GVA has never done anything in an Ardennes classic. Yet he demands co-leadership.

Valverde had GVA type of riders riding for him all the time and no one ever made such a big deal out of that like they do with GVA. Give it a break, he's not good enough, so he shouldn't be a leader. How is it insulting to say the Schlecks and Gilbert are better than him at the Ardennes classics? It's the truth and apparently neither you and GVA wants to hear it. If he didn't want to ride for Gilbert, he should have left when he had the chance. Now it's simple: you either ride for Phil or you don't get selected for the races he's in.

Give him co-leadership at races like E3 Prijs Vlaanderen, G-W, Paris-Tours, but the Ardennes classics? No... Cadel Evans and Gilbert are A LOT better than him at those races. You don't need 3 leaders for a classic.

 

[Panda Claws]

Please correct me in the case that my memory is ...

I partially agree with you: I also think that it was unfair of Gilbert to use that as an argument. Van Avermaet indeed was not fresh anymore.

But the point stays that GVA has not showed anything. The thing that annoys me though is that this article seems to suggests that GVA wants co-leadership in the ardennes but I cannot find an interview where he actually says that.

 

[jens_attacks]

But the point stays that GVA has not showed anything. The thing that annoys me though is that this article seems to suggests that GVA wants co-leadership in the ardennes but I cannot find an interview where he actually says that.

he just wants to attack before phil makes his moves.phil won't let him do this,he will chase the ******* down and teach him a lesson in the bus.
it will be fun if we'll have this kind of rivalry,unfortunately van avermaet hasn't half of phil's power so he can't be taken seriously.

 

[Angliru]

That's because GVA has never done anything in an Ardennes classic. Yet he demands co-leadership.

Valverde had GVA type of riders riding for him all the time and no one ever made such a big deal out of that like they do with GVA. Give it a break, he's not good enough, so he shouldn't be a leader. How is it insulting to say the Schlecks and Gilbert are better than him at the Ardennes classics? It's the truth and apparently neither you and GVA wants to hear it. If he didn't want to ride for Gilbert, he should have left when he had the chance. Now it's simple: you either ride for Phil or you don't get selected for the races he's in.

Give him co-leadership at races like E3 Prijs Vlaanderen, G-W, Paris-Tours, but the Ardennes classics? No... Cadel Evans and Gilbert are A LOT better than him at those races. You don't need 3 leaders for a classic.

Where in the article is he making any demands for co-leadership? All I've seen is him hoping to continue grow and to have opportunities in the classics. I don't see anywhere that he is saying that he should be the equal of any of the team's big 3 (Hushovd/Evans/Gilbert). What I get from what I've read is that he is hoping that his growth as a rider isn't stunted by the team's new acquisitions.

 

[Panda Claws]

Where in the article is he making any demands for co-leadership? All I've seen is him hoping to continue grow and to have opportunities in the classics. I don't see anywhere that he is saying that he should be the equal of any of the team's big 3 (Hushovd/Evans/Gilbert). What I get from what I've read is that he is hoping that his growth as a rider isn't stunted by the team's new acquisitions.

In the dutch article Gilbert said that he is not planning on sharing the leadership with GVA.

and then GVA said that he did not agree.

My conclusion was (perhaps wrongly?) that GVA wanted co-leadership.
He also stated that MSR and RVV where his main goals (albeit in a different article.)

 

[greenedge]

I would love for Vanendert and JVDB to try match the previous Lotto boys ( Cadel and Phil ). Does anyone think they could form a good enough duo to derail the 2 BMC boys or not?

 

[El Pistolero]

I would love for Vanendert and JVDB to try match the previous Lotto boys ( Cadel and Phil ). Does anyone think they could form a good enough duo to derail the 2 BMC boys or not?

VDB isn't all that good at the Ardennes, good enough to be a domestique, but I don't think he ever made it to the finals of a real classic while Vanendert has. Keep an eye out on Vanendert for 2012

 

[Panda Claws]

http://jeredgruber.com/2011/12/12/philippe-gilbert-v-greg-van-avermaet/

An interesting piece on the subject.

But BMC simply is not the right team for GVA anymore.

In Milano-Sanremo both Gilbert and Hushovd are better and perhaps Ballan too.

In Ronde van Vlaanderen it is the same story.

In Liege-Bastogne-Liege is Gilbert and Evans stronger.

 

[La Pandera]

In the dutch article Gilbert said that he is not planning on sharing the leadership with GVA.

and then GVA said that he did not agree.

My conclusion was (perhaps wrongly?) that GVA wanted co-leadership.
He also stated that MSR and RVV where his main goals (albeit in a different article.)

I think the logical conclusion is that he was referring to Gilbert's denigration of his LBL performance and using that as evidence of GVA not being worthy of racing for himself in the classics or even having any latitude in a race other than being at the service of Gilbert.

 

[Panda Claws]

I think the logical conclusion is that he was referring to Gilbert's denigration of his LBL performance and using that as evidence of GVA not being worthy of racing for himself in the classics or even having any latitude in a race other than being at the service of Gilbert.

Hmmm...

Yes, I think you are right.

 

[Angliru]

Hmmm...

Yes, I think you are right.

I'm hoping Gilbert has a humbling (is that a word?) season with many 2nd places and no major wins. His response to GVA was IMO really something that should have been kept within the team. His status and success has gone to his head.

Note: I posted this prior to reading the Jared Gruber link. Of course I'm in full agreement with him and was going to include Cancellara's 2011 season as an example of what Gilbert may need to experience to bring him back to earth.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Gilbert in polka dots, lol.

Too many chiefs, not enough Indians at BMC.

that will be a problem for evans perhaps or some subtop riders as van avermaet but world class riders like gilbert it won't matter he will just have as much chanfe of success as this year

 

[El Pistolero]

I'm hoping Gilbert has a humbling (is that a word?) season with many 2nd places and no major wins. His response to GVA was IMO really something that should have been kept within the team. His status and success has gone to his head.

http://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/14158/van-avermaet-ziet-niets-in-komst-gilbert.html
http://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/13941/van-avermaet-ooit-versla-ik-gilbert.html


Perhaps GVA shouldn't have said stuff like this then

If a rider is saying he doesn't want you at BMC before you even signed then don't expect that rider to be friendly against you.

 

[Angliru]

http://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/14158/van-avermaet-ziet-niets-in-komst-gilbert.html

Perhaps GVA shouldn't have said stuff like this then

I don't have access to google translate. Briefly, what does it say?

 

[El Pistolero]

I don't have access to google translate. Briefly, what does it say?

I don't want Gilbert at BMC. My main goals are the Ardennes classics and if Phil comes to BMC I can forget my chances there. I rather ride against him than with him. Someday I will beat him at his own races.

Stuff like that. This was before the official news Gilbert signed with BMC by the way.

 

[Panda Claws]

http://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/14158/van-avermaet-ziet-niets-in-komst-gilbert.html
http://www.wielerflits.nl/nieuws/13941/van-avermaet-ooit-versla-ik-gilbert.html


Perhaps GVA shouldn't have said stuff like this then

If a rider is saying he doesn't want you at BMC before you even signed then don't expect that rider to be friendly against you.

I hadn't read those yet. I think the problem with GVA is just that there is absolutely nothing he does better than Gilbert at the moment. (except maybe for a flat sprint) Sure he could be send in breakaways in the end to relieve some pressure of the team but once that breakaway gets really dangerous GVA just is not good enough to rely on.

 

[Angliru]

I don't want Gilbert at BMC. My main goals are the Ardennes classics and if Phil comes to BMC I can forget my chances there. I rather ride against him than with him. Someday I will beat him at his own races.

Stuff like that. This was before the official news Gilbert signed with BMC by the way.

So essentially he's saying that after having his best season, he sees the arrival of Gilbert as a road block to his continued growth as a rider. Had Gilbert not arrived his goals would've been the Ardennes classics and he recognizes with Gilbert those opportunities will be gone. He's confident enough in himself to think that he will eventually beat Gilbert which is as he should think. Saying he'd rather race against him than with him is what sounds to me like a rider that wants to compete against the best and he can't do that if the current best rider is on his team. Honest statements all.
Unlike the denigrating statements from Gilbert about GVA. I don't detect any disrespect towards Gilbert in any of GVA's statements.

 

[El Pistolero]

So essentially he's saying that after having his best season, he sees the arrival of Gilbert as a road block to his continued growth as a rider. Had Gilbert not arrived his goals would've been the Ardennes classics and he recognizes with Gilbert those opportunities will be gone. He's confident enough in himself to think that he will eventually beat Gilbert which is as he should think. Saying he'd rather race against him than with him is what sounds to me like a rider that wants to compete against the best and he can't do that if the current best rider is on his team. Honest statements all.
Unlike the denigrating statements from Gilbert about GVA. I don't detect any disrespect towards Gilbert in any of GVA's statements.

He doesn't want to ride for him. What use is he to Phil then? He should have left when he had the chance(and he had the chance, so how are his statements honest? He lied.). And those comments were all made before he even won a race. Hardly his best season.

When you're joining a team and someone is constantly whining in the press how he doesn't want you there, would you be kind to him?

Besides, Phil made that statement after the Kristallen fiets uitreiking. Knowing the press they probably took the quote out of context:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OOtWGknA3Q

 

[Angliru]

I hadn't read those yet. I think the problem with GVA is just that there is absolutely nothing he does better than Gilbert at the moment. (except maybe for a flat sprint) Sure he could be send in breakaways in the end to relieve some pressure of the team but once that breakaway gets really dangerous GVA just is not good enough to rely on.

That is truly debatable. He's shown growth so who is to say that he won't continue to improve this season? He made an fairly interesting comparison to his development and Gilbert's and considering that he is 2 years younger than Gilbert it is a viable belief that he will continue to improve. We'll see.

 

[El Pistolero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7zwd5sQQl0

Does this sound arrogant to you?

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

That is truly debatable. He's shown growth

Not much improvement when compared to his 2008 season, I'd say.

 

[Panda Claws]

Let us look at Vanendert. He worked very hard in several classics for Phil while obviously being very strong himself (Clasica San Sebastian, Fleche Wallone) but does not complain. Meanwhile GVA has spend his year being smacked left and right by Phil (Clasica San Sebastian, Liege Bastogne Liege) and was completely invisible in the other 2 ardennes classics (Finishing behind Vanendert).

 

[Angliru]

Not much improvement when compared to his 2008 season, I'd say.

I'd have to disagree. He won a classic won stage race and was top ten in 2 monuments among other decent finishes. I'd personally take this year's results over 2008's.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I'd have to disagree. He won a classic won stage race and was top ten in 2 monuments among other decent finishes. I'd personally take this year's results over 2008's. I'd personally take this year's results over 2008's.

As would I, but I don't think it's much of an improvement in all those years when compared to Gilbert's development.

Edit: you're right, I had forgotten that he just made the top 10 in MSR