Playing God: Eufemiano Fuentes

[Franklin]

Pro cycling is a filthy pigsty and the people of Spain don't want to spend their money to clean it up. Honestly, who can blame them?

I have absolutely no faith a Dutch sentence would be any different. In fact we never had such a case. And we know that in Belgium it aint better. And if anyone is going to say that we are just that much cleaner than Spain, warn me so I can swallow my coffee first.

I'm probably worng, but isn't the most similar case Balco? How did that end? Remarkably similar.....

Again, this was not a sport case where we were looking at doping offenses. This was a common law case on public health and financial grounds. The riders weren't part of it at all.

Our outrage does not equal legal realities.

 

[Franklin]

Well, the obvious example that springs to mind is Japan, which has had only handful of doping cases in its history, mostly in mixed marshal arts and sumo. Otherwise, the japanese seem not to trouble the doping authorities much...

Considering the social reluctance for even admitting the slightest error and a very strict authoritarian society I have zero illusion that Japan is a remotely clean country.

Sporters will obey their coach fantically and Omerta is ingrained in their country on a scale where cyclists are boyscouts. It's the perfect place for doping. There is also no cultural or moral barrier on these things.

I love the culture, it's people and the country (have been there a few times), but as the Tepco problems of the earthquake shows Japan is not very good at truthseeking.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

They went back to Fuentes. He was arrested again in Operation Greyhound

There were no cyclists linked to Galgo if I am correct.

That doesnt mean there werent of course.

 

[thehog]

Pro cycling is a filthy pigsty and the people of Spain don't want to spend their money to clean it up. Honestly, who can blame them?

I agree. No other county is cleaning up its doping.

Spain is no different from others. Hence why so many live and train there.

 

[martinvickers]

TBF, outside of those, how much do they really win?

They used to be very good at marathons until the east africans became unbeatable

 

[roundabout]

Is it correct that the judge order computer files to be destroyed?

 

[Volderke]

Pro cycling is a filthy pigsty and the people of Spain don't want to spend their money to clean it up. Honestly, who can blame them?

It seems to me that there is more than cycling that needs to be covered in this case!

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Is it correct that the judge order computer files to be destroyed?

its a matter of national security.

(I don't know the answer)

 

[Dazed and Confused]

looks like another dead end.

RIP Antidoping.

Zombie? Maybe.

 

[mikehammer67]

TBF, outside of those, how much do they really win?

exactly

japanese don't dope- they don't win anything

chinese dope a lot-they win a lot

 

[pastronef]

you shouldn't stop there!! how about Santiago Botero & Oscar Sevilla returning to Europa???

I was ironic. but anyway, Sevilla and Mancebo could come back with some conti team. why Basso can and they can't?
Botero still races?

 

[movingtarget]

Hopefully the appeal will work. If it does, things could get very interesting.

 

[Walkman]

I agree. No other county is cleaning up its doping.

Spain is no different from others. Hence why so many live and train there.

Spain is the worst. It's not even comparable with countries such as Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Germany.

 

[thehog]

Spain is the worst. It's not even comparable with countries such as Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Germany.

Southern Europe is a bunch of cheaters.

Which why cyclists love to live there.

Supply and demand.

Team Garmin just like the food and Team Sky like the hotels

 

[Walkman]

Which why cyclists love to live there.

Supply and demand.

Team Garmin just like the food and Team Sky like the hotels

Well, I guess you have a point.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Spain is the worst. It's not even comparable with countries such as Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Germany.

Southern Europe is a bunch of cheaters.

Okay, so only southern european cheaters. cool.

 

[Benotti69]

Spain is the worst. It's not even comparable with countries such as Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Germany.

Southern Europe is a bunch of cheaters.

Dont see much anti doping in many countries to be honest. The reason a lot dont live or train in France is that doping is a criminal offence. So easier to live just inside the border on the Spanish side

 

[Eshnar]

Southern Europe is a bunch of cheaters.

The next comment like this will get someone banned.
It's time we stop this nonsense. Thanks.

 

[D-Queued]

This quote deserves another post:

“There is a clash going on at the moment between two cultures, the Anglo-Saxon and what I might call the mafia Western European culture…The Western European Culture is a culture that has to some extent – I won’t say condones doping and cheating practices – but because of their culture in life, because of the way they deal with everything else in life they accept certain practices…”

“The Anglo-Saxon [approach], which would be here [the Netherlands], it would be Germany, the United Kingdom, Denmark – is the complete opposite…it is very important that at the end of the day the Anglo-Saxon approach wins out – because if it doesn’t, then the sport is doomed.”

That quote has more relevance in this thread than it might appear, however. The quote was in relation to a piece on Valverde.

Valverde also operating as Fuentes client valv.piti.

The assertion that the Anglo-Saxon countries don't dope is truly absurd, of course. Which is why it is one of my all time favorites.

The silence from McQuaid on the Fuentes verdict is deafening. Perhaps he knows of some Anglo-Saxon cyclists that spend most of their time in Spain.

Dave.

 

[Benotti69]

This quote deserves another post:

“There is a clash going on at the moment between two cultures, the Anglo-Saxon and what I might call the mafia Western European culture…The Western European Culture is a culture that has to some extent – I won’t say condones doping and cheating practices – but because of their culture in life, because of the way they deal with everything else in life they accept certain practices…”

“The Anglo-Saxon [approach], which would be here [the Netherlands], it would be Germany, the United Kingdom, Denmark – is the complete opposite…it is very important that at the end of the day the Anglo-Saxon approach wins out – because if it doesn’t, then the sport is doomed.”

That quote has more relevance in this thread than it might appear, however. The quote was in relation to a piece on Valverde.

Valverde also operating as Fuentes client valv.piti.

The assertion that the Anglo-Saxon countries don't dope is truly absurd, of course. Which is why it is one of my all time favorites.

The silence from McQuaid on the Fuentes verdict is deafening. Perhaps he knows of some Anglo-Saxon cyclists that spend most of their time in Spain.

Dave.

Not just McQuaid, but Brailsford, Vaughters, Millar, Wiggins the so called knights of anti doping.......

 

[D-Queued]

Time line of Operación Puerto
Seven-year doping scandal history

Just realized that I have spent seven years posting on Internet forums about Operacion Puerto.

Truly depressing outcome.

Dave.

 

[Franklin]

Spain is the worst. It's not even comparable with countries such as Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Germany.

Southern Europe is a bunch of cheaters.

Yeah man! Preach to the choir!

Just look at how much sentences were dealt out after Freiburg, that really shows those corrupt Spaniards and Italians.

The problems with Musseeuw sure got people behind bars.

Pevenage got the biggest jailsentence ever

Humanplams caused the Austrians to erect new cellblocks and the Rabo riders involved have been banned on the spot.

The scandinavian blooddoping XC ski people are still in ball and chain.

Sure, the Spanish and Italians are actally the only ones giving out jail sentences, but let's not let the facts stand in the way of our cultural superiority feeling: Southern Europeans are cheaters.

 

[zalacain]

Unusually vocal. Suspect his anger means he's a fair idea there's a tennis player or two involved...

I recall there were reportedly police surveillance photos which showed tennis & soccer players. They were not all Spanish either. That might have been in Girona though.

 

[The_Captain]

This quote deserves another post:

“There is a clash going on at the moment between two cultures, the Anglo-Saxon and what I might call the mafia Western European culture…The Western European Culture is a culture that has to some extent – I won’t say condones doping and cheating practices – but because of their culture in life, because of the way they deal with everything else in life they accept certain practices…”

“The Anglo-Saxon [approach], which would be here [the Netherlands], it would be Germany, the United Kingdom, Denmark – is the complete opposite…it is very important that at the end of the day the Anglo-Saxon approach wins out – because if it doesn’t, then the sport is doomed.”

Dave.

I know this topic has been argued to death in the clinic already but I think there is a clear difference between attitudes to doping and the aptitude to dope.

I think (and whether or not it's true is another discussion) is that the point here is that one culture has more of a "it's only cheating if you get caught" attitude whether as the other culture (unless you're Lance Armstrong) know full well that it's cheating but do it anyway.

The temptation to break the rules to win is unfortunately uniformly human, it's just at what point on the scale of external pressures that you're willing to do it they fall. I'd suggest that culturally this just means that for one culture it's just further along the scale than for the other. How much so obviously depends on a whole host of other factors.

 

[D-Queued]

I know this topic has been argued to death in the clinic already but I think there is a clear difference between attitudes to doping and the aptitude to dope.

I think (and whether or not it's true is another discussion) is that the point here is that one culture has more of a "it's only cheating if you get caught" attitude whether as the other culture (unless you're Lance Armstrong) know full well that it's cheating but do it anyway.

The temptation to break the rules to win is unfortunately uniformly human, it's just at what point on the scale of external pressures that you're willing to do it they fall. I'd suggest that culturally this just means that for one culture it's just further along the scale than for the other. How much so obviously depends on a whole host of other factors.

And, if you are like Lance Armstrong, then it is part of the explicit choreography with as much attention and investment, if not more, than any other part of the preparation including selection of teammates, as well as the explicit contracting of insurance deals on fraudulent premises to multiply the payout.

Lance exemplifies: If you want to win, you need to be all in.

And, I would suggest, that the shear number of blood bags collected and stored via OP for some athletes underscores that the Lance strategy was neither limited to Lance, nor was it selectively applied by Spanish, Italian or Anglo-Saxon cyclists exclusively.

Of course, at least the Italian cyclist of note didn't inhale.

Dave.