Teams & Riders Pogačar as GOAT: already, never, or when?

[Froome]

Not how it works for a generational conversation.

Vinge was the best 2022-2023 as has been said. Might not matter for a generational conversation, which Pog leads atm, where wins and other results has to be accounted for.

Froome is still the best of this generation looking at his GT palmares, so he will have GOAT status?

 

[Salvarani]

Froome is still the best of this generation looking at his GT palmares, so he will have GOAT status?

Ask the posters who said it.

But Froome didnt have much success in one-day races... so nah. Not like Pog or other great riders of the past.

He will likely be called his generations best GT-rider though. Probably with Contador 2nd.

 

[Froome]

Ask the posters who said it.

But Froome didnt have much success in one-day races... so nah.

He will likely be called his generation best GT-rider though. Probably with Contador 2nd.

But you were just talking about GT palmares as GOAT status of this generation.

 

[Salvarani]

But you were just talking about GT palmares as GOAT status of this generation.

You have to read back to understand what the conversation is. Not quote me blindly ignoring context of why/what is being said.

Maybe stop following me around so much will help you with understanding better.

 

[Berniece]

But you were just talking about GT palmares as GOAT status of this generation.

Non-stop goalpost moving to create a scenario that only Pogacar can match and isn’t impressive

 

[Salvarani]

One poster said Pog, for them, would have to be this generation best GT-rider among other things!

The facts are he is in the lead for being this generation best GT-rider. Based on wins and other results, which is the only way you can determine that. Goes without saying we need more time to know if he or Vinge will be, as it is looking right now if no one else shows up... but Pog is anyway in the lead TODAY for this conversation.

It is not that hard to understand or grasp.

 

[Froome]

You have to read back to understand what the conversation is. Not quote me blindly ignoring context of why/what is being said.

Maybe stop following me around so much will help you with understanding better.

"That doesnt work for a generational conversation about who is the best GT rider. For that counts wins and other results over a longer period of time in GTs, where Pog RIGHT NOW leads over Vinge. No matter what you want to say."

Looking at this statement, i think we can agree that Froome as more wins in GTs over a longer period of time than Pogacar, and he is still active. So, if we follow that logic, Froome as a GOAT status.

 

[Salvarani]

"That doesnt work for a generational conversation about who is the best GT rider. For that counts wins and other results over a longer period of time in GTs, where Pog RIGHT NOW leads over Vinge. No matter what you want to say."

Looking at this statement, i think we can agree that Froome as more wins in GTs over a longer period of time than Pogacar, and he is still active. So, if we follow that logic, Froome as a GOAT status.

See my post above. You are once again jumping out the window to quote me about something, only because it is me, because you are such a weirdo that follows me around.

Learn to read instead and stop ignoring context. Do something more fulfilling.

 

[Froome]

Non-stop goalpost moving to create a scenario that only Pogacar can match and isn’t impressive

I think it's a bit exxagerated the accomplishements of Pogacar in Grand Tours compared with other riders. He won just 3 GTs since 2019.

If we look at the first six seasons of Froome or Contador fighting for Grand tours (2007-2012/2013), and Froome (2013-2018), Contador won 5/ 6 GTs and Froome 6 GTs.

 

[Berniece]

I think it's a bit exxagerated the accomplishements of Pogacar in Grand Tours compared with other riders. He won just 3 GTs since 2019.

If we look at the first six seasons of Froome or Contador fighting for Grand tours (2007-2012/2013), and Froome (2013-2018), Contador won 5/ 6 GTs and Froome 6 GTs.

Even more so since we all saw how he lost in 2022 and 2023

 

[Salvarani]

I think it's a bit exxagerated the accomplishements of Pogacar in Grand Tours compared with other riders. He won just 3 GTs since 2019.

If we look at the first six seasons of Froome or Contador fighting for Grand tours (2007-2012/2013), and Froome (2013-2018), Contador won 5/ 6 GTs and Froome 6 GTs.

Keep ignoring that the conversation is not simply about GTs though.

The poster just said... that AMONG OTHER THINGS (like monuments and other one-day races) Pog would have to be this generations best GT-rider as well. Something I pointed out that he leads based on wins and others results, currently.

It is not just about GT palmares, which you are now debating as the only thing for "GOAT status".

You didnt read at all and only wanted to quote me about it, like the weirdo you are.

 

[snipeheem]

He will only have a GOAT status if he wins:

5x Tour France
4x Giro d'Italia
La Vuelta

7x Milan San Remo
2x Tour Flandres
3x Paris Roubaix
5x liege bastogne liege
2x Giro di Lombardia.

Until then he can't be the GOAT, and these stats are facts. He is very far from that.

Bill Russell the goat ! Lebron who? Michael who?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think it's a bit exxagerated the accomplishements of Pogacar in Grand Tours compared with other riders. He won just 3 GTs since 2019.

If we look at the first six seasons of Froome or Contador fighting for Grand tours (2007-2012/2013), and Froome (2013-2018), Contador won 5/ 6 GTs and Froome 6 GTs.

Why counting from 2019 instead of 2020? As for now he has 3 GTs in 4.5 seasons, let's see what he can do by the end of 2025 (when 6 full years pass).

 

[Froome]

Bill Russell the goat ! Lebron who? Michael who?

Different sports. How many points averaged Bil Russel in his career and in those finals? Probably half of Jordan, since he was with an average of 30 points in the finals. Different sports since it's not just about the titles in NBA.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I think it's a bit exxagerated the accomplishements of Pogacar in Grand Tours compared with other riders. He won just 3 GTs since 2019.

If we look at the first six seasons of Froome or Contador fighting for Grand tours (2007-2012/2013), and Froome (2013-2018), Contador won 5/ 6 GTs and Froome 6 GTs.

I come up with 3/4 for Froome in his first six years fighting for GTs (2011-2016), Froome was closer to winning GTs in 2011/2012 (in fact he won one), than Pog was in 2019.

But I guess never trust a statistic you didn‘t fake yourself.

 

[Froome]

I come up with 3/4 for Froome in his first six years fighting for GTs (2011-2016), Froome was closer to winning GTs in 2011/2012 (in fact he won one), than Pog was in 2019.

But I guess never trust a statistic you didn‘t fake yourself.

Froome didnt entered in the race as a leader in 2011 and 2012. I was speaking about enter in the races as a leader.

 

[Netserk]

Bill Russell the goat ! Lebron who? Michael who?

Team sports are not comparable to cycling.

Contador winning the 2009 Tour did not add another title to the palmarès of Armstrong, despite being teammates.

 

[Berniece]

Why counting from 2019 instead of 2020? As for now he has 3 GTs in 4.5 seasons, let's see what he can do by the end of 2025 (when 6 full years pass).

Because he was 3rd in the Vuelta

 

[velaso montador]

Why are vingegaard stans so obsessed with pogacar will forever be a mystery to me hes not even the closest guy to him but be that as it may it doesnt matter i think that in itself is explonatory in itself anyway, everyone has their own thing. Froome, and Contador which arguable is the best GT riders we had this centuri noone of those riders no matter how much i even like em has never been mentioned with merckx we know this, brilliant riders tho exceptionally good riders even , historically good but its different no matter how much i like contador or anyone else froome or other its just different its just is cmon ppl...Yet everyone does it with pogacar now not saying hes goat or greater than merckx myself cause i dont think so im saying people are putting him on that pedestal not me not you but his peers, what are you guys even arguing over? and im not talking about us here in case anyone wonder.

 

[Extinction]

Yes, you are since you are only seemingly wanting count and refer to the last two Tours... to say Vinge is in the "lead". Only wanting to talk about the Tour as well. Nothing else.

That doesnt work for a generational conversation about who is the best GT rider. For that counts wins and other results over a longer period of time in GTs, where Pog RIGHT NOW leads over Vinge. No matter what you want to say.

And if Vinge goes on to win more than Pog, then he will be in the lead and eventually be able to claim to be the best generational GT-rider. We dont know if that will happen yet though. We can only talk about today and make guesses about the future.

Over time they will likely have years were they where the best and where they were not. It is how it all adds up later, overall, that matters for this generational conversation.

Facts today are Pog is in the lead for being the best generational GT-rider, something that you said he would have to be to be able to claim a GOAT-status.

Dont know how many times this has to be repeated. It is the facts TODAY. It might not be in a month, a year or five years.

He who wins more Tours in direct confrontations, despite all the rest, is the best GT rider of his genetation, for there is no hogher level than the Tour.

 

[Salvarani]

He who wins more Tours in direct confrontations, despite all the rest, is the best GT rider of his genetation, for there is no hogher level than the Tour.

We will see if Vinge does, as said we need more time for this, but so far Pog is in the lead no matter what you say. TODAY. That is all I am saying and his record is better pertaining to the Tour as well, RIGHT NOW.

 

[AmRacer]

Froome didnt entered in the race as a leader in 2011 and 2012. I was speaking about enter in the races as a leader.

Moving goal post are we.

 

[Salvarani]

Why are vingegaard stans so obsessed with pogacar will forever be a mystery to me hes not even the closest guy to him but be that as it may it doesnt matter i think that in itself is explonatory in itself anyway, everyone has their own thing. Froome, and Contador which arguable is the best GT riders we had this centuri noone of those riders no matter how much i even like em has never been mentioned with merckx we know this, brilliant riders tho exceptionally good riders even , historically good but its different no matter how much i like contador or anyone else froome or other its just different its just is cmon ppl...Yet everyone does it with pogacar now what are you guys even arguing over? and im not talking about us here in case anyone wonder.

It is hilarious.

 

[AmRacer]

Froome didnt entered in the race as a leader in 2011 and 2012. I was speaking about enter in the races as a leader.

Was Jonas the leader 2022?

 

[Peyroteo94]

This is to discuss if Pogacar is the GOAT of cycling not Vingegaard vs Pogacar thread.