Teams & Riders Pogačar as GOAT: already, never, or when?

[Berniece]

Ah yes, the tongue-in-cheek excuse. Coupled with predictions of Velo d'ors because of the double double and Lombardia and what not...no, the posts on this forum in the Remco thread have been clear for ages, he was expected to be the new Eddy Merckx. And still is expected to be the best rider. Unbeatable in false flats (that's where he attacked in Zürich btw) getting back everybody as soon as it's flat, whatever. If you expected Remco to win the Giro 2020 (and lots here did) and the Giro 21 in his first race back (and again, lots did) and all the other stuff he was supposed to win plus the impressive stuff he has actually won... then saying no no, it's tongue in cheek is just ridiculous.

Not sure what all of that has to do with actually expecting him to be as good as Eddy Merckx. Just because you expect someone to win a GT, doesn't mean you expect him to win 19 monuments and 11 GT's. Obviously there is some sort of hyperbole in the dedicated topics of a rider, but again, it's silly to think people expect him to be the next Eddy Merckx. There might be some crazy fans in his fanclub though, but that's not the general public's opinion.

 

[AmRacer]

the general public's opinion

is that Tadej Merckx is the Goat

 

[Berniece]

is that Tadej Merckx is the Goat

That seems to be the case. Do you think I have a problem with that?

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Of course, they call him the next Merckx

By that logic someone meant for Wilco Kelderman to become the GOAT…

One of the strangest thing on this forum is how obsessed people are with the thread title of Remcos thread, while no one is bothered about Wilcos thread title is exactly the same. So how come people are able to understand that one of them was made tongue in cheek while the rider was 20, but unable to understand the same about the other thread that was created when the rider was 18 (17?)..?

On topic: for me Pogacar doesn’t have to equal Eddys wins in GT-Monuments-WCs to be considered the GOAT. If he comes close enough in the modern day of cycling, to me that would be a much bigger achievement and he would be considered the GOAT. He’s on the way there.

But nothing can be taken for given when talking about the future. One crash can change everything, we’ve seen great athletes suddenly lose motivation and there are many possible scenarios where Pogacar never will be at this level again.

 

[Peyroteo94]

By that logic someone meant for Wilco Kelderman to become the GOAT…

One of the strangest thing on this forum is how obsessed people are with the thread title of Remcos thread, while no one is bothered about Wilcos thread title is exactly the same. So how come people are able to understand that one of them was made tongue in cheek while the rider was 20, but unable to understand the same about the other thread that was created when the rider was 18 (17?)..?

On topic: for me Pogacar doesn’t have to equal Eddys wins in GT-Monuments-WCs to be considered the GOAT. If he comes close enough in the modern day of cycling, to me that would be a much bigger achievement and he would be considered the GOAT. He’s on the way there.

But nothing can be taken for given when talking about the future. One crash can change everything, we’ve seen great athletes suddenly lose motivation and there are many possible scenarios where Pogacar never will be at this level again.

No one is obsessed with thread's titles. Belgian Media used to say Remco is the new Merckx, not anymore but they said 4/5/6 years ago. Even Merckx was upset about it because guess what? Remco had not even won a monument or a GT and they were comparing to him.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

No one is obseased with thread's titles.

I wasn’t pointing this towards you, but on those who now and then asks the Remco thread to be renamed. In my book they fall under obsessed with the thread title.

 

[AmRacer]

I wasn’t pointing this towards you, but on those who now and then asks the Remco thread to be renamed. In my book they fall under obsessed with the thread title.

Those who don't want to change the thread title are obsessed with it.

 

[Lequack]

Mou with another wisdom

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Mou with another wisdom

He only follows four sports? Pathetic.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Those who don't want to change the thread title are obsessed with it.

Great stuff, “Mirror haha”.
One can for example be of the opinion that thread titles are not meant to be changed. I would be strongly against changing the Wilco thread title as well. That’s consistency.

Until the people that suggest Remco thread title should be change starts suggesting the Wilco thread title should be changed, they are the inconsistent ones and I’ll therefore believe the Remco thread title is bothering them in a way that justifies me calling them obsessed.

 

[Salvarani]

He only follows four sports? Pathetic.

God sees everything though.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

God sees everything though.

I'm not sure Pogačar has the time to do that, but perhaps he has other disciples than mou who can do it for him.

 

[iBanesto]

Its really funny some of you guys how scrambling over this The man himself says its obvious even now so does every other legend of the sport you follow already, it doesnt take rocket science to figure it out anymore.

‘It’s obvious that he is now above me’ – Eddy Merckx hails Tadej Pogačar after Worlds exhibition''​

I guess it is now:

1. Hinault
2. Pogacar
3. Merckx

 

[hrotha]

Its really funny some of you guys how scrambling over this The man himself says its obvious even now

Do you have any idea how much BS Merckx has spouted throughout the years

 

[AmRacer]

Great stuff, “Mirror haha”.
One can for example be of the opinion that thread titles are not meant to be changed. I would be strongly against changing the Wilco thread title as well. That’s consistency.

Until the people that suggest Remco thread title should be change starts suggesting the Wilco thread title should be changed, they are the inconsistent ones and I’ll therefore believe the Remco thread title is bothering them in a way that justifies me calling them obsessed.

You must let your obsession with Keldermerckx go. But if it makes you feel better, change that thread title too.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I hope God Pogačar can clear up who is the GOAT of ski jumping. Is it Janne Ahonen with his many titles? Is it record World Cup event winner Gregor Schlierenzauer? Can Stefan Kraft get the GOAT title in the future? Or is it Primoz Roglic because he would beat all of the above in a bike race and that is the GOD sport?

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

But if it makes you feel better, change that thread title too.

Only one of us have been wanting to change thread titles and it aint me.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

I hope God Pogačar can clear up who is the GOAT of ski jumping. Is it Janne Ahonen with his many titles? Is it record World Cup event winner Gregor Schlierenzauer? Can Stefan Kraft get the GOAT title in the future? Or is it Primoz Roglic because he would beat all of the above in a bike race and that is the GOD sport?

Okay, I gotta ask: what's the argument for Kraft? He has a lot of World Cup victories and 3 overall wins there and the Ski Jumping World Record, but only one Tour, one Olympic Gold Medal and "only" 3 World Championship Gold Medals.

 

[iBanesto]

I hope God Pogačar can clear up who is the GOAT of ski jumping. Is it Janne Ahonen with his many titles? Is it record World Cup event winner Gregor Schlierenzauer? Can Stefan Kraft get the GOAT title in the future? Or is it Primoz Roglic because he would beat all of the above in a bike race and that is the GOD sport?

Matti Nykanen or Kamil Stoch.

 

[stekelegel]

To early;
He had a GOAT start to his career and this season probably has been the GOATest season in cycling. Glad to see it.
But really needs to dis this afor another 5 years to come close. Right now he is probably in the top 5 somewhere.

When tiger was playing golf, everybody was talking about GOAT here and GOAT there.
Never passed Nicklaus in the end.

An yes cycling was more limited sport in those days, but it wasnt the case the case that all riders did everything everywhere; You had classic specialist then, sprinters, Italians focussing on Giro, French and Spaniards doing the same.
Merckx was riding the whole season and every race to win, even ending summer and fall with a bucketload of well paid nothing races, and going to the track afterwards; Only a few of his competitors did the same. Or they just came to Flanders, rode a 100km and went home. These days almost everyone is selective in the races they ride.
So you might even consider the argument that despite riding much more at full tilt then his opponents, Merckx dominated everywhere. I would call that even with the fact that these days Pog is riding vs hyperspecialised coureurs.
What I do rate is the level of opponents. Vingegaard, VDpoel, Evenepoel, Van Aert, Roglic these are all great riders by themselves. winning vs them surely enhances his goat case;

 

[VO2 Max]

Probably I already pondered too much already when I started this other thread nonsense I started anothe thread with and back then I wasn't even really thinking that Pogacar would necessarily beat Merckx's records - only that his at-the-same-age results showed that what we might have thought impossible is apparently not so impossible.

But Merckx I think has a legend and a myth that's too embedded within us; he's the best ever so by definition it's logically impossible for anyone to be better. Same as Pantani is the best climber ever - stick your w/kg calculations where the sun don't shine. So much of cycling is about romance and sensations; even the basic fact of being Belgian helps Merckx's mystique since we know that to be the natural spiritual home of cycling. There is more to this than even that good a palmares.

Qualitatively, looking at the opposition (keeping in mind that both MvdP and Remco have also had really good seasons) Pogacar may very well have the highest level we've ever seen in cycling, which I think is what Eddy is really saying. Maybe the palmares will come but I doubt he's bothered about specifically targetting that; it's not like he's going to try the hour record after Lombardia just to be able to say 2024 is as good as 1972.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Okay, I gotta ask: what's the argument for Kraft? He has a lot of World Cup victories and 3 overall wins there and the Ski Jumping World Record, but only one Tour, one Olympic Gold Medal and "only" 3 World Championship Gold Medals.

He‘s really consistent for a ski jumper and so I expect him to keep it going for a bit, break the overall and individual event World Cup win records and be up there. I did only name people I could think of when I wrote that and he came to mind as an all-time great

 

[pihi42]

it's not like he's going to try the hour record after Lombardia just to be able to say 2024 is as good as 1972.

haha, he was asked this question in the Attia interview; he said he actually seriously thought about attempting the hour record but then when he saw what Ganna did abandoned the idea.

 

[Poursuivant]

Palmarès matters when having GOAT conversations obviously. There is also the matter of comparing Merckx's full career to Pogi at 26.

In my view, Merckx's palmarés is totally impossible to reach in the modern era. It is also true that Pogi is the most impressive rider I've seen in all my years watching (97 onwards). If he keeps at it, I can see him reaching something akin to Hinault's (in my view, the current #2 OAT).

Currently I'd put in about on par with Indurain or Coppi on palmarès alone. There is zero doubt in my mind that he will surpass them. He also has a real shot of being the second ever to win full sets of both GTs and monuments which is a crazy achievement in itself and a testament to his versatility in an era of specialists. This, I feel, would put him at a clear #2 OAT.

I used to think this, but honestly, not any more.

I think by the time Pog retires he will have more GT wins and more monuments.

 

[Froome]

Eddy Merckx on about Tadej Pogacar: "He has a long way to go to be better than me"

After the massive 2024 season Tadej Pogacar has had,

cyclinguptodate.com

The GOAT telling how it is.

"Eddy Merckx on about Tadej Pogacar: "He has a long way to go to be better than me"​