MvdP - and thats enough for the likes of Philipsen, Matthews, WvA, Pedersen coming back. I do think he can distance them (should been more clear) but last 3 years showed its hard to stay away.
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No one in Belgium ever called Evenepoel the GOAT
mlescanojr
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Remco is not in the same league as Pogacar.
They literally called him the new Merckx.
Boy were they wrong.
But now Eddy calls Pog the GOAT. Maybe they should listen to him.
Wow, Eddy went further in his comments than ever before. Teddy is a decent cyclist, no doubts!
Of course he's not the GOAT yet. Thats very premature, he's only 26 years old and have lots of great years left. But he has the potential to rival Merckx
Peyroteo94
BANNED
That’s not the same at all, and that’s just classic Belgian hyperbole when someone can ride a bike
Peyroteo94
BANNED
He is the best junior rider ever. It is normal to compare him to Merckx, specially because he is belgian. But you have to admit Belgium really call him the next Merckx and that means they thought he really would be able to challenge Merckx's status as GOAT of cycling.
Pogacar is what I expect Remco to be 5/6 years ago.
I don't really recall anyone in Belgium seriously calling Evenepoel the next Merckx at all. In some sense, there's more awareness here of the pitfalls and ridiculousness of calling every new prospect the new Merckx.
Tongue-in-cheek is always hard to interpret.
Tongue-in-cheek is always hard to interpret.
Ah yes, the tongue-in-cheek excuse. Coupled with predictions of Velo d'ors because of the double double and Lombardia and what not...no, the posts on this forum in the Remco thread have been clear for ages, he was expected to be the new Eddy Merckx. And still is expected to be the best rider. Unbeatable in false flats (that's where he attacked in Zürich btw) getting back everybody as soon as it's flat, whatever. If you expected Remco to win the Giro 2020 (and lots here did) and the Giro 21 in his first race back (and again, lots did) and all the other stuff he was supposed to win plus the impressive stuff he has actually won... then saying no no, it's tongue in cheek is just ridiculous.
As for the GOAT? We're witnessing history, why isn't that enough? Why do we have to delete history then? Eddy who rode against farmers and would be beaten today. Cycling was less global. Less specialized. Of course he would be beaten. But would Pogacar win in the 60es and 70es? Without all the data. Without radios. Without the team that works for him. There always were stronger and weaker teams, but was the talent so concentrated in so few teams back in Merckx era? (Don't know, but suppose not) Nobody knows what would happen if we transported him back there, nobody should really care.
Merckx is the GOAT, Pogacar is writing history and it's a real possibility that he will be regarded as the GOAT once his career is over. Something nobody thought possible for any rider even 5 years ago (ehm, ok, the Remco crowd...) Merckx says he's above him? Recency bias, senility setting in maybe. And doesn't mean he means it over the whole career, could as well just mean what he has been showing us since 2020 is a higher level than Merckx had. Now it's about longevity. And of course he doesn't have to match the palmares exactly, cycling indeed is different now, plus the value of races change. The Flèche in the 60es was more highly regarded than nowadays, worth more (and used to be more important than Liège-Bastogne-Liège as well, not sure when that changed exactly) On the other hand Merckx Amstel win is pretty much worthless. But he couldn't win Strade Bianche. Etc etc. To really be the GOAT he needs to win a bit more. (If he retires today, had enough of cycling, in 5 years Merckx won't call him the GOAT, but lament the lack of commitment Pogacar had. ) Another Tour, another Giro, a Vuelta could already be enough, if he goes on a classics spree.
But actually for the moment I don't really care if he's the GOAT or will one day be, I'm just happy to witness this live. And really just want to see Pogacar winning Roubaix, much more important than being or not being the GOAT. Go for Roubaix 25!
As for the GOAT? We're witnessing history, why isn't that enough? Why do we have to delete history then? Eddy who rode against farmers and would be beaten today. Cycling was less global. Less specialized. Of course he would be beaten. But would Pogacar win in the 60es and 70es? Without all the data. Without radios. Without the team that works for him. There always were stronger and weaker teams, but was the talent so concentrated in so few teams back in Merckx era? (Don't know, but suppose not) Nobody knows what would happen if we transported him back there, nobody should really care.
Merckx is the GOAT, Pogacar is writing history and it's a real possibility that he will be regarded as the GOAT once his career is over. Something nobody thought possible for any rider even 5 years ago (ehm, ok, the Remco crowd...) Merckx says he's above him? Recency bias, senility setting in maybe. And doesn't mean he means it over the whole career, could as well just mean what he has been showing us since 2020 is a higher level than Merckx had. Now it's about longevity. And of course he doesn't have to match the palmares exactly, cycling indeed is different now, plus the value of races change. The Flèche in the 60es was more highly regarded than nowadays, worth more (and used to be more important than Liège-Bastogne-Liège as well, not sure when that changed exactly) On the other hand Merckx Amstel win is pretty much worthless. But he couldn't win Strade Bianche. Etc etc. To really be the GOAT he needs to win a bit more. (If he retires today, had enough of cycling, in 5 years Merckx won't call him the GOAT, but lament the lack of commitment Pogacar had. ) Another Tour, another Giro, a Vuelta could already be enough, if he goes on a classics spree.
But actually for the moment I don't really care if he's the GOAT or will one day be, I'm just happy to witness this live. And really just want to see Pogacar winning Roubaix, much more important than being or not being the GOAT. Go for Roubaix 25!
I think it’s pretty clear: Pogacar is as good or better than any cyclist in history, but he is not the GOAT yet.
As a thought experiment, imagine Pogacar gets injured and never raced again. Would he be considered the GOAT with 3 Tours, a Giro, a WC gold, and some monuments in 10 years when the memory starts to fade? In 20? 30? I don’t think so. He would be considered the brilliant wunderkind who would have been the GOAT if not for the disaster.
As a thought experiment, imagine Pogacar gets injured and never raced again. Would he be considered the GOAT with 3 Tours, a Giro, a WC gold, and some monuments in 10 years when the memory starts to fade? In 20? 30? I don’t think so. He would be considered the brilliant wunderkind who would have been the GOAT if not for the disaster.
By pure top performance I think he is, but GOATedness is inherently also a palmares game. He needs another 2 tours, another giro and ideally a Vuelta or 2 on top of some more classics. He can perhaps trade a couple of GCs for a PR and MSR though.
If he is this exeptional for the next 3-5 years and can retire with:
5 tours
2 giros
1/2 vueltas
2 WCs
3 + LBLs
2 RVV
1PR
and a bunch of random wins in the lesser monuments/1 week races he will be the GOAT by 2030.
If he is this exeptional for the next 3-5 years and can retire with:
5 tours
2 giros
1/2 vueltas
2 WCs
3 + LBLs
2 RVV
1PR
and a bunch of random wins in the lesser monuments/1 week races he will be the GOAT by 2030.
Not sure what all of that has to do with actually expecting him to be as good as Eddy Merckx. Just because you expect someone to win a GT, doesn't mean you expect him to win 19 monuments and 11 GT's. Obviously there is some sort of hyperbole in the dedicated topics of a rider, but again, it's silly to think people expect him to be the next Eddy Merckx. There might be some crazy fans in his fanclub though, but that's not the general public's opinion.
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That seems to be the case. Do you think I have a problem with that?
By that logic someone meant for Wilco Kelderman to become the GOAT…
One of the strangest thing on this forum is how obsessed people are with the thread title of Remcos thread, while no one is bothered about Wilcos thread title is exactly the same. So how come people are able to understand that one of them was made tongue in cheek while the rider was 20, but unable to understand the same about the other thread that was created when the rider was 18 (17?)..?
On topic: for me Pogacar doesn’t have to equal Eddys wins in GT-Monuments-WCs to be considered the GOAT. If he comes close enough in the modern day of cycling, to me that would be a much bigger achievement and he would be considered the GOAT. He’s on the way there.
But nothing can be taken for given when talking about the future. One crash can change everything, we’ve seen great athletes suddenly lose motivation and there are many possible scenarios where Pogacar never will be at this level again.
Peyroteo94
BANNED
No one is obsessed with thread's titles. Belgian Media used to say Remco is the new Merckx, not anymore but they said 4/5/6 years ago. Even Merckx was upset about it because guess what? Remco had not even won a monument or a GT and they were comparing to him.
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I wasn’t pointing this towards you, but on those who now and then asks the Remco thread to be renamed. In my book they fall under obsessed with the thread title.
Those who don't want to change the thread title are obsessed with it.
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