Teams & Riders Pogačar as GOAT: already, never, or when?

[Peyroteo94]

Of course Pogacar is better when we talk about talent but his palmares is still very inferior to Merckx's palmares. So Merckx is still the GOAT but if Merckx raced nowadays, it's so obvious he wouldn't have half of his palmares. Cycling is way more specialized and professional

 

[Extinction]

Of course Pogacar is better when we talk about talent but his palmares is still very inferior to Merckx's palmares. So Merckx is still the GOAT but if Merckx raced nowadays, it's so obvious he wouldn't have half of his palmares. Cycling is way more specialized and professional

This has been said since the 80s, but give Merckx the same as today and then let's see. Of course, this is not possible.

 

[Froome]

There are lots of explanations in this forum why Tadej Merckx is the GOAT.

Who is Tadej Merckx?

 

[YavorD]

Of course Pogacar is better when we talk about talent but his palmares is still very inferior to Merckx's palmares. So Merckx is still the GOAT but if Merckx raced nowadays, it's so obvious he wouldn't have half of his palmares. Cycling is way more specialized and professional

Yeah, according to PCS 16-17 nations has scored PCS points during Merckx' career. Compare that to 91 in the time frame 2020-2024 and you'll see that cycling was just a glorified friendly event back in the Merckx days.

 

[MikeTichondrius]

Palmarès matters when having GOAT conversations obviously. There is also the matter of comparing Merckx's full career to Pogi at 26.

In my view, Merckx's palmarés is totally impossible to reach in the modern era. It is also true that Pogi is the most impressive rider I've seen in all my years watching (97 onwards). If he keeps at it, I can see him reaching something akin to Hinault's (in my view, the current #2 OAT).

Currently I'd put in about on par with Indurain or Coppi on palmarès alone. There is zero doubt in my mind that he will surpass them. He also has a real shot of being the second ever to win full sets of both GTs and monuments which is a crazy achievement in itself and a testament to his versatility in an era of specialists. This, I feel, would put him at a clear #2 OAT.

 

[Froome]

"He takes the piss!" - Geraint Thomas & Luke Rowe in awe of 'better than Merckx' Tadej Pogacar

Geraint Thomas has had a few battles against Tadej Pogacar over the years, finishing on the final podium of both the 2022 Tour de France and the 2024 Giro d'Italia alongside the Slovenian. As such, th...

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Not we all - the cycling world. He is the goat for the same reason Jordan is the Goat of NBA and not Bill Russell its very easy.

In your black and white way to say it Roglic is twice the rider Vingegaard is and more and etc etc it doesnt work like that only its more narratives to account for than pure merrits (especially when its vs another era where cyclnig was terrible)

You can do a bunch of posts everyday on this forum, it doesn't mean at the end of the day, Pogacar is the GOAT, because the palmares doesn't say that.

Just enjoy what Pogacar did this year, and forget about those conversations who doesn't make sense.

 

[BullsFan22]

Here we go. Another ‘who is the goat?’ conversation in sports…

I hope Tadej keeps going well for the next 5-8/10 years, and then we’ll see. The guy is 26. Even though he’s been around now for 6 years or so as a pro, it still feels like he’s a relative ‘newcomer.’ Maybe it’s the baby face, maybe it’s youthful exuberance in which he races…I don’t know.

Let’s wait until he’s retired or close to being retired that we make a comparison.

 

[BullsFan22]

Palmarès matters when having GOAT conversations obviously. There is also the matter of comparing Merckx's full career to Pogi at 26.

In my view, Merckx's palmarés is totally impossible to reach in the modern era. It is also true that Pogi is the most impressive rider I've seen in all my years watching (97 onwards). If he keeps at it, I can see him reaching something akin to Hinault's (in my view, the current #2 OAT).

Currently I'd put in about on par with Indurain or Coppi on palmarès alone. There is zero doubt in my mind that he will surpass them. He also has a real shot of being the second ever to win full sets of both GTs and monuments which is a crazy achievement in itself and a testament to his versatility in an era of specialists. This, I feel, would put him at a clear #2 OAT.

I want to see Pogi smashing the Roubaix to pieces, attacking halfway on a tough section of cobbles and dropping those around him. That will be some spectacle.

 

[Peyroteo94]

One thing that it is obvious, cycling in Merckx's era was popular and raced by 6/7 nations with France, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands and Spain as big nations. Talent is around the world but some guys didn't get the opportunity to become cyclists in many countries. Let's not pretend it is the same winning 3 WC from a country like Slovakia (Sagan) and winning 3 WC from a country like Spain or Belgium (Freire and Merckx)

 

[scribers]

I feel in no way anxious to rush Pogi's career. Going to sit back and enjoy as long as his health (and luck) are willing. What happens after all that can be measured against history before and after.

 

[E_F_]

Well he did the triple crown. An his triple crown season is better than either the previous two. So I think that's probably the best season ever. Longevity is needed for him to be the greatest of all time.

 

[Izzyeviel]

He just needs 19 more tour stages & a Vuelta to be considered the Goat.

 

[E_F_]

He just needs 19 more tour stages & a Vuelta to be considered the Goat.

Kinda needs a lot more than that to match Eddy's palmares tbh

 

[Lorzenz08]

I think a realistic scenario for Pogi for the next 5-6 years is something like :
- GT : 3 more TdF / 2 more Giro / 1 Vuelta
- 2 more Liege
- 1 or 2 MSR
- 1 other WC
- 1 Paris-Roubaix
- 3 more Lombardia

 

[scribers]

If Pogi can lay MSR to bed, I am thinking he stops racing it. Too early and too much to chance to prepare for. Starting a little later in the season would make for a much stronger heart of the season.

 

[Extinction]

Im not the nostalgia guy but put Merckx in this era and he wouldnt top 20 in the Tour or be anywhere close to anyone. Hows that fair to Merckx though peak strenght vs these guys where cycling has evolved 100x times, its just as life in that time that car vc cars today its self explonatory. But put him in today with all the training and make him grow up etc who knows, but imposisble as you say.

Indeed as far as GOAT goes its personal preference he is my goat already for the same reason Jordan is the goat for me in nba over Russell, its still preference thing its not facts. And I do believe since its personal prefernece nostalgia and emotions plays apart, if someone has Pog as goat thats fine i think cause its def a case and more and moer already clearly dub him that in the real world but if someone has Merckx as their goat nothing wrong with that either - IMO. Two best legends of the sport regardless all love.

Whats however is facts is that Pogacar is the best cyclist that has ever put his ass on a bike its beyond any doubt and its with a margin which is comical at this point..

Well, Merckx was the best of his generation and so put him in today, with the same equipment, training and nutrition, and I doubt he does such a low performance in the Tour. Pogacar, however, is doubtless the better climber and this makes him superior.

 

[Berniece]

One thing that it is obvious, cycling in Merckx's era was popular and raced by 6/7 nations with France, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands and Spain as big nations. Talent is around the world but some guys didn't get the opportunity to become cyclists in many countries. Let's not pretend it is the same winning 3 WC from a country like Slovakia (Sagan) and winning 3 WC from a country like Spain or Belgium (Freire and Merckx)

Indeed, cycling was a much bigger sport in those big countries back then, so the talent from those countries was much better.

 

[Peter von]

I'd say Pogi needs to at least match the number of TdF wins before we can really have the GOAT debate, for sure that looks very doable with this season in mind.

I can allow Pogi to take the GOAT mantle with different classics and smaller stage race palmares, after all racing is different and more specialized today, but the tour is the tour. (this doesn't mean that it doesn't matter that Pogi can and frequently does win every type of big race)

 

[vwpe]

He obviously already is the goat. A forgone conclusion and something every single cyclist/manager or anyone around the pro cycling in the real world would say without hesitating.

 

[Froome]

He obviously already is the goat. A forgone conclusion and something every single cyclist/manager or anyone around the pro cycling in the real world would say without hesitating.

Merckx

20x monuments, including 2 Paris roubaix
3x world championships
11x Grand tours

Pogacar

4x Grand Tours
6x monuments
1x World champion

 

[BigCoward]

So if we take account context, I would say Pogacar is in my opinion already on Merckx accomplishment level, maybe just 1-2 years away.

If we triple Pogs career so far he's about level with EM.
Different times obviously, but cold hard numbers, he has a loooooooooong way to go.

 

[Salvarani]

He obviously already is the goat. A forgone conclusion and something every single cyclist/manager or anyone around the pro cycling in the real world would say without hesitating.

Yup, there is no debate.

 

[BigCoward]

Merckx

20x monuments, including 2 Paris roubaix
3x world championships
11x Grand tours

Pogacar

4x Grand Tours
6x monuments
1x World champion

19

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If we triple Pogs career so far he's about level with EM.
Different times obviously, but cold hard numbers, he has a loooooooooong way to go.

I think it's a realistic assumption that Pogacar is more or less in the middle of his career (achievement-wise), it's 5th year of his prime. This would mean he will pass all guys except Merckx. Obvoiusly one never knows what happens in the future, it's just some assumption. OTOH him covering so far only 1/3 of his winning path seems an underestimation.

 

[BigCoward]

I think it's a realistic assumption that Pogacar is more or less in the middle of his career (achievement-wise). This would mean he will pass all guys except Merckx. Obvoiusly one never know what happens in the future, it's just some assumption.

I just dont know what he will do with his career.
What will he target?