Pogacar vs Contador, who has the best career now?

[scribers]

Change the title to, 'Who in the peloton has currently a better career than Contador?'

You could make a sincere argument for MvP too within that context. Perhaps more so that 2. Pog and 3. Vingo

 

[scribers]

Peloton was slower during Contador era, so breakaways were more successful. Postal revolutionized the concept of making the race too hard to get away, and Sky perfected it on a daily basis to the point of boredom. Plugge is glad Pog rides a complete calendar, because his teams lean heavily on taking the team tactic of watts burned across 3 weeks. It makes rested and altitude trained Vingo look very good.

 

[spicelab]

Did Contador ever win the Saitama Criterium though?

 

[AmRacer]

You could make a sincere argument for MvP too within that context. Perhaps more so that 2. Pog and 3. Vingo

Chris Vroome?

 

[scribers]

Chris Vroome?

Damn! Excellent point. I've forgotten he is still racing lol

 

[Red Rick]

As much as this debate is pointless, it gets even worse if we're gonna rate performance instead of achievements.

 

[Netserk]

Nah, I think it's good to debate whether or not Indurain is the best rider of all time.

 

[scribers]

Lemond should have taken one or two out of him under different circumstances.

 

[Nick2413]

Should debates like this factor in the fact that it’s harder to be dominant now than in the past, even 10-15 years ago?

 

[Cookster15]

Nah, I think it's good to debate whether or not Indurain is the best rider of all time.

Not sure about best rider but Indurain was the best time trialist of all time until 18 July 2023 😉

 

[Froome]

Peloton was slower during Contador era, so breakaways were more successful. Postal revolutionized the concept of making the race too hard to get away, and Sky perfected it on a daily basis to the point of boredom. Plugge is glad Pog rides a complete calendar, because his teams lean heavily on taking the team tactic of watts burned across 3 weeks. It makes rested and altitude trained Vingo look very good.

The myth that pogacar races too much and too many times hard is still alive. That's not true.

He just raced 54 days in 2022.
He just raced 24 days before the tour 2022.
Strade bianche and tour flandres were the only one day races that he raced hard.


He just raced 50 days in 2023.
He just raced 22 days before the tour 2022, and again, the only races that he raced hard was just 2 or 3 one day races. Vuelta andalucia, jaen paraiso interior, milan san remo, or fleche wallone are races that a rider doesn't tired out so much, the opposite of races like tour flandres.

If we look closely to his schedule, he did vuelta andalucia, then he raced just 2 weeks later on paris nice, then he just raced 1 week later on a one day race (milan san remo), one week later saxo classic, one week and half later tour flandres and 2 weeks later the amstel gold race.

He don't overrace like many people say, and he doesn't make it to the Tour tired.
Actually, he rests a lot between the races that he does, but you want to keep finding excuses for the fact that he lost the Tour again.

 

[scribers]

There’s a difference racing a calendar at high levels, and train riding for July specifically. Pogi does the former. Vingo does the later

 

[Elos Anjos]

The myth that pogacar races too much and too many times hard is still alive. That's not true.

He just raced 54 days in 2022.
He just raced 24 days before the tour 2022.
Strade bianche and tour flandres were the only one day races that he raced hard.


He just raced 50 days in 2023.
He just raced 22 days before the tour 2022, and again, the only races that he raced hard was just 2 or 3 one day races. Vuelta andalucia, jaen paraiso interior, milan san remo, or fleche wallone are races that a rider doesn't tired out so much, the opposite of races like tour flandres.

If we look closely to his schedule, he did vuelta andalucia, then he raced just 2 weeks later on paris nice, then he just raced 1 week later on a one day race (milan san remo), one week later saxo classic, one week and half later tour flandres and 2 weeks later the amstel gold race.

He don't overrace like many people say, and he doesn't make it to the Tour tired.
Actually, he rests a lot between the races that he does, but you want to keep finding excuses for the fact that he lost the Tour again.

There’s a difference racing a calendar at high levels, and train riding for July specifically. Pogi does the former. Vingo does the later

The plain (and embarrassing) difference between stating facts and interpreting them is here for display.

 

[Bolder]

Altho to be far he would have raced hard in LBL had he not crashed, and then done a prep race like Suisse, in 2023. So figure 7 more race days. Ardennes week is pretty hard and some riders make it a main focus.

How many race days did Vingegaard have in 2023 before the Tour?

I don't think it's an excuse for not winning so much as I'm not sure he shouldn't try something different and see if it makes a difference vs Vingegaard.

 

[Cookster15]

The myth that pogacar races too much and too many times hard is still alive. That's not true.

He just raced 54 days in 2022.
He just raced 24 days before the tour 2022.
Strade bianche and tour flandres were the only one day races that he raced hard.


He just raced 50 days in 2023.
He just raced 22 days before the tour 2022, and again, the only races that he raced hard was just 2 or 3 one day races. Vuelta andalucia, jaen paraiso interior, milan san remo, or fleche wallone are races that a rider doesn't tired out so much, the opposite of races like tour flandres.

If we look closely to his schedule, he did vuelta andalucia, then he raced just 2 weeks later on paris nice, then he just raced 1 week later on a one day race (milan san remo), one week later saxo classic, one week and half later tour flandres and 2 weeks later the amstel gold race.

He don't overrace like many people say, and he doesn't make it to the Tour tired.
Actually, he rests a lot between the races that he does, but you want to keep finding excuses for the fact that he lost the Tour again.

Yes but he had a crash and broken wrist which interrupted his prep. The rush to get back in form by July may have drained him, then a lack of base condition due to that interruption led to his collapse on stage 17 after he had buried himself to stay in contention the day before in that TT.

 

[Froome]

Yes but he had a crash and broken wrist which interrupted his prep. The rush to get back in form by July may have drained him, then a lack of base condition due to that interruption led to his collapse on stage 17 after he had buried himself to stay in contention the day before in that TT.

The crash and a broken wrist can be a fair argument.
The argument that he in 2022 and 2023 raced too much and a lot before the tour, i don't think is fair.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

The crash and a broken wrist can be a fair argument.
The argument that he in 2022 and 2023 raced too much and a lot before the tour, i don't think is fair.

Pogacar had less race days before le tour than Vingeggard in both 2022 and 2023

 

[Elos Anjos]

Pogacar having less race days than Vingo tells nothing about how both approach races, as goals in themselves or as building races towards a super-peak in the Tour. This is the most reasonable explanation for Vingo being dropped by Pogacar in Paris-Nice.

 

[Unchained]

As much as this debate is pointless, it gets even worse if we're gonna rate performance instead of achievements.

I saw some pictures once of Alberto having a Ferrari.. So unless we know what kind of car Pogacar drives there really is no way to know who has a better career. That should be obvious..

 

[Red Rick]

I saw some pictures once of Alberto having a Ferrari.. So unless we know what kind of car Pogacar drives there really is no way to know who has a better career. That should be obvious..

Contador's beard >>> Pogs babyface.

 

[topcat]

I think we can save ourselves a few unnecessary threads. Who’s better: Contador or them?
It’s never them.

 

[Unchained]

Contador's beard >>> Pogs babyface.

I have always considered Contador out of the saddle some version of a wiggle worm rodeo cowboy that looks like the bike is trying to buck him off.. I like Pog because he gets in the drops bends his elbows and makes at least an effort to be aero . Not sure how much I have revealed about what a superficial fan boy I am but I just never like the way Alberto looks on a bike.. Plus I am still mad that Contador didn't say to team leadership " if Lance wants it more, I will back off and support him and oh yeah he's American so he deserved to win" if he would have said that I would love the guy.. Pog too young to have the chance but he would have supported Merca.

 

[perico]

Contador will always be referred to as The Great One by me, and for God sakes, I’m an Enric Mas fan so it’s pretty obvious where my loyalties will always lie.

Nationality aside, I do think in style that Pogacar is the natural heir to Bertie in the way he rides. He has conquered different objectives but his acceleration on the climbs and his out of the saddle style is very similar.

I consider Contador a 9 time GT winner, so right now, it’s Contador, but I think Teddy will likely surpass him by the time he finishes his career… but only if he wins another TDF or branches out and wins a couple of Giros or Vueltas. If Pogacar retires with just 2 TDF victories, then no, he won’t pass Bertie unless he suddenly turns into Sean Kelly or Wout Van Aert and wins multiple Paris Roubaixs or all 5 monuments.

 

[bNator]

The crash and a broken wrist can be a fair argument.
The argument that he in 2022 and 2023 raced too much and a lot before the tour, i don't think is fair.

But you claimed that argument was made to make excuses for Pog. If one wants to make an excuse for Pog they don’t need to get into counting days - there’s much better material for that. So maybe claiming he races too many days too hard was not an excuse but an observation. Whether it’s fair or not - look at what he’s won before his injury. Just a couple of efforts? He demolished Vinge in Paris Nice, won bunch of classics and a monument. Was that smart from TDF perspective? We can’t say - but it does point to the fact he goes all-in a lot…

 

[Froome]

But you claimed that argument was made to make excuses for Pog. If one wants to make an excuse for Pog they don’t need to get into counting days - there’s much better material for that. So maybe claiming he races too many days too hard was not an excuse but an observation. Whether it’s fair or not - look at what he’s won before his injury. Just a couple of efforts? He demolished Vinge in Paris Nice, won bunch of classics and a monument. Was that smart from TDF perspective? We can’t say - but it does point to the fact he goes all-in a lot…

Yeah, but vingegaard got personal problems before paris nice, he didn't made a good preparation. Do you see? The "excuses" can work for everybody.