Question Poll - is tadej pocagar using a hidden motor?

[Ilmaestro99]

Wanted to see what everyone thinks

 

[Samu Cuenca]

He used them to win the 2021 Lombardia and 2023 Amstel. They were called Fausto Masnada and Leo van Vliet respectively.

 

[Netserk]

Wanted to see what everyone thinks

GOAT thread!

 

[topcat]

Wanted to see what everyone thinks

Finally. I have been thinking about posting this thread/poll for a while but feared I might be labelled a party pooper and endure endless goat bashing.
Thank you Dr. Ilmaestro
From the poll, it appears Red Rick is the GOAT of Pog fans.

 

[E_F_]

I don't know what I think! How can I answer, if I don't know what I think!?

 

[Red Rick]

Had to vote for the least serious answer

 

[topcat]

I don't know where the battery is, but someday we'll find it: the rainbow connection, the lovers, the dreamers and me.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Only missing the "No idea, but he's definitely doing something that Masnada is not" option.

 

[noob]

I'm missing one option that says "I'm not ruling it out". But I do love that there is such a poll!

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I'm missing one option that says "I'm not ruling it out". But I do love that there is such a poll!

There's also no option saying he's using a visible motor.

 

[YellowSocks]

I like this poll!
I generally consider myself a reasonable person, so my answer cost me A LOT.
I don't have any certainties, but I do have doubts that survive the "super responder generational talent on a high end doping program" story.
I hope a hubbub coming from cycling fans might force the UCI to be more convincing on this matter, so let my vote be my small contribution to the hubbub.
When I’m proved wrong, which I hope, I’ll make amends diving into the wonderful world of Pogi’s PRR thread.
In the meantime, I’ll open a bottle of wine to try and forget I am now one of those dumb conspiracy theorists…

 

[Casual cyclist]

I like this poll!
I generally consider myself a reasonable person, so my answer cost me A LOT.
I don't have any certainties, but I do have doubts that survive the "super responder generational talent on a high end doping program" story.
I hope a hubbub coming from cycling fans might force the UCI to be more convincing on this matter, so let my vote be my small contribution to the hubbub.
When I’m proved wrong, which I hope, I’ll make amends diving into the wonderful world of Pogi’s PRR thread.
In the meantime, I’ll open a bottle of wine to try and forget I am now one of those dumb conspiracy theorists…

You should have no fear of being dumb. That descriptor is much more fitting those simpletons who readily consume and propagate primitive ideological clichés designed by the progress averse system specifically for throttling their intelligence development.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If Pogacar (or any other top cyclist) used a motor it would be the end of cycling to me. I really hope it's not the case but I'm not sure OFC (so it's more like a wishful vote).

 

[cnort]

If Pogacar (or any other top cyclist) used a motor it would be the end of cycling to me.

For me too.

With good old fashioned pharmacological doping, the rider can claim contamination, test error, etc. If they are well lawyered up, the UCI-employed ambulance chasers stand little chance and the rider may get away with little more than some time away from competition, a la Froome. Seems the peloton will welcome them back and the fans care little. I think a motor-doping case would be harder to gloss over. I'm not sure there is a burden on the UCI to show a motor was used, only that it was present. It would be hard to argue the rider acted alone. It would surely look very bad for the frame supplier.

The notion of a large conspiracy to hide the use of motor-doping seems implausible. It requires too many people to stay quiet, many of whom are not paid enough to keep schtum. So while it is an attractive explanation for Pogacar's ability to sustain incredible performances for weeks at a time, repeatedly in a season, I still think it is less likely than the 'excellent responder to pharmacological doping' explanation [although that is also a stretch].

We need a comprehensive undercover thermal camera job done, a bit like in the Giro many years back, to rule in or out whether it is happening.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Of course he isn't using a motor. Genetics and a great doping program to be honest. Being a genetic freak is also being a very good responder to PEDs. But I want to say one thing, the gap between dopers and WADA is getting bigger than ever. Those days of catching riders on CERA (2008) are gone, in that time WADA was really closing the gap in order to catch more and more riders. Right now, they simply don't care or are just naive.

 

[Red Rick]

For me too.

With good old fashioned pharmacological doping, the rider can claim contamination, test error, etc. If they are well lawyered up, the UCI-employed ambulance chasers stand little chance and the rider may get away with little more than some time away from competition, a la Froome. Seems the peloton will welcome them back and the fans care little. I think a motor-doping case would be harder to gloss over. I'm not sure there is a burden on the UCI to show a motor was used, only that it was present. It would be hard to argue the rider acted alone. It would surely look very bad for the frame supplier.

The notion of a large conspiracy to hide the use of motor-doping seems implausible. It requires too many people to stay quiet, many of whom are not paid enough to keep schtum. So while it is an attractive explanation for Pogacar's ability to sustain incredible performances for weeks at a time, repeatedly in a season, I still think it is less likely than the 'excellent responder to pharmacological doping' explanation [although that is also a stretch].

We need a comprehensive undercover thermal camera job done, a bit like in the Giro many years back, to rule in or out whether it is happening.

Everyone who is in cycling is heavily incentivized not to destroy it completely, which is what motors coming out would do.

 

[Casual cyclist]

Everyone who is in cycling is heavily incentivized not to destroy it completely, which is what motors coming out would do.

That's the key word combination. For cycling as a an enterprise to be "destroyed" in the eyes of the masses, they (motors) would have to be "officially" exposed, complete with the standard TV song and dance. With the current monopoly everywhere that's simply not going to happen. And it getting destroyed for some sceptics here and there who have just had enough already is clearly irrelevant.

 

[cnort]

For cycling as a an enterprise to be "destroyed" in the eyes of the masses, they (motors) would have to be "officially" exposed, complete with the standard TV song and dance.

If only a few are currently using motors, surely it will become increasingly mainstream. Like the good old intelligence test that is the dope control, someone somewhere will eventually be complacent and get caught. Either a loose tongue, disgruntled cast-off, poorly treated mechanic will eventually open the can of worms, just as it has done for old school doping.

The only difference I see is that it is not a public health or drug trafficking issue, so the police may have no interest in it - and they have instigated the biggest busts in the last 27 years. As has been discussed, there are apparently no rigorous investigative reporters interested in cycling anymore, but it would only take one. You never know...

 

[zlev11]

armstrong might be the last motorless tour de france winner

 

[Casual cyclist]

armstrong might be the last motorless tour de france winner

Rather, the Hunchback of Texas was almost certainly the most motorized winner, at least before Pogoclown's entry. You could check my last years' posts just about that. In particular, recall his miraculous transformation from a punchy Phil Gil type of one day racer who would roll back from any serious mountain and absolute c**p time trialist to a mountain goat and Indurain scale time trialist who would -- defying all aerodynamics -- sit like a sail on his TT bike in this trademark "hunching" position (recall Pogo the coalminer in this regard) while walking all over the natural TT prodigy and a flexible "flat back" rider in general Ullrich.