Poll: Ullrich vs Schleck

[sublimit]

I think TSF is saying that JB did not have Contador best interest at heart re race results when he was racing with Astana.

This is it, TSF is right.

 

[WillemS]

Zoetemelk (6).

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I'm baffled that people are writing Schleck off at 26 and saying he'll never win a TdF. Armstrong and Indurain were both younger when they won their first, not to mention Sastre, Evans and Pantani, and that's just recent winners.

Assuming Contador wins his case, I can't think of anybody else other than him who's more likely to win a Tour in the future.

Not writing him off completely, but he has never been second in a time trial heavy GT. Barely put time into Evans in a mountainous edition of the TDF.

He's a decent time trialist, to be sure, but I expect him to lose about 5 minutes to Evans next year. If not 6. That's A LOT to make up for.

Of course, with Bruyneel you never know.

 

[Shardi]

Ullrich. I doubt A.Schleck will feature on the podium unless tdf goes back to one ITT again.

 

[Anonymous]

So it's OK to cheat as long as you don't have to

You could say that it will be to the Schlecks advantage to work under Bruyneel. It would also be fair to say that Contador didnt have any advantages from working under Bruyneel, in fact, you could possibly say that he was disadvantaged by it.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Mentioning Ullrich with that Schleck fraud in the same sentence is actually one big insult.

 

[airstream]

Generally in 2009 and on the TdF in particular Bruyneel was interested in success of Astana team. Yes, he syphatized with Armstrong more for obvious reason. But it's wrong to say "despite". I think, if Bruyneel really wanted Contador not to win le Tour, he wouldn't win.

 

[Echoes]

How can Ullpoor still be remembered?

He puertoed. So even my granny is a bigger champion. Andy is yet to have evidence against him.

Bavarian is funny. An insult unless he does it himself, I figure.

 

[apmfbs]

I don´t know if Andy will ovecome Jan´s podiums, but at least Jan used to try his best in the tour and Andy seems as if he doesn´t care.

Ullrich was a champion, although he trained little

 

[c&cfan]

How can Ullpoor still be remembered?

He puertoed. So even my granny is a bigger champion. Andy is yet to have evidence against him.

Bavarian is funny. An insult unless he does it himself, I figure.

besides his father, his brother, the "everyone knows but no one will talk" since amateurs, his "place" as wannabe armstrong 2.0, and so on... the usual.

 

[Carols]

Ulle is a legend with a TdF and Vuelta win besides his 'eternal seconds'. Andy is a mentally weak loser who will never have the class of Ulle!!
IMHO of course

 

[Christian]

You could say that it will be to the Schlecks advantage to work under Bruyneel. It would also be fair to say that Contador didnt have any advantages from working under Bruyneel, in fact, you could possibly say that he was disadvantaged by it.

Either he didn't "cheat" (which would contradict common knowledge that everyone under the Hog cheats) or he had a pretty good advantage I would say.

besides his father, his brother, the "everyone knows but no one will talk" since amateurs, his "place" as wannabe armstrong 2.0, and so on... the usual.

I'll give you the brother but the father is just an old guy chauffeuring people around and the rest is kind of completely made up

 

[pedaling squares]

The problem with these polls is that they are little more than popularity contests. Ullrich came across as a flawed gentlemen, Schleck comes across as an arrogant brat. Contador gets pulled in because, hey what's a Scheck thread without Contador? And most of the posts in this thread reek of bias.

Schleck is a fraud.
Ok, but what about Ulle's issues with fair play?

Schleck is connected to Bruyneel so his results won't count.
Bruyneel of course being the only DS with questionable ethics. Telekom / T-Mobile / Astana (2010) / Saxo Bank - Sungard being above all that nonsense.

Alberto won despite Bruyneel being his DS, so his results count.
Ok, I'd better watch the '07 tour and the '08 Giro again. I must have missed some obvious mismanagement.

Who will end up with more 2nd place finishes? I say Ullrich. Schleck will end up 2nd in 2012 again and will then switch to the Giro to try for a 1st place before his confidence completely erodes.

 

[Morbius]

From next month, Schleck's number of second place finishes drops to 3

 

[greenedge]

Rather than who will get the most seconds, how about a straight who will win the most Tour de France's.

I agree with TSF.

 

[LaFlorecita]

From next month, Schleck's number of second place finishes drops to 3

He already has three.

 

[luckyboy]

The only Tour Andy will ever win is retroactively. Hopefully that doesn't happen though.

Schleck is a fraud.
Ok, but what about Ulle's issues with fair play?

"hell, kevin was telling me that after 2000 Ullrich never raced over 42%" (not wishing to drag this into clinic territory here)

Alberto won despite Bruyneel being his DS, so his results count.
Ok, I'd better watch the '07 tour and the '08 Giro again. I must have missed some obvious mismanagement.

He won in 2009 with his team pretty much against him.

 

[pedaling squares]

Yeah, I get both points luckyboy. Hard to go into detail in this part of the forum, but the events in Spain occurred long after 2000. Jan played the same game that we think Schleck plays. And while Contador was subjected to some brutal treatment from LA and JB in 2009, we can't suggest that he hasn't been given the same preparation as any other rider who rode on Bruyneel teams. Besides, note that I specified 2007 and 2008 GT's.

 

[Matthijs]

please drop the clinic issues guys.

Let's not forget andy has also a 2nd in the Giro, he was a talented 2nd place rider right from the start
I think he won't be 2nd next year. But who knows, maybe he wins Fleche or the WC next year like evans and becomes a real winner after all (gilbert cant have this form for ever, there comes a point he crashes or his body is overloaded if he wants 3 or 2 very long formpeaks every year)
If the 2013 tour is so ITT heavy again, he should do the giro. in fact maybe he should do the giro this year. But if he does the giro, he will forget his tt-bike. I guess he needs the tour to motivates for this.

But of course, Ullrich is the legend, the eternal and only real contender who gave LA nightmares

 

[ferryman]

Doesn't matter.

Ullrich is a legend, Schleck will never come close. No matter how much he wins.

Keep it real please. Ullrich is indeed a legend and he killed me as I supported him in all those 2nd's to LA But why dis Schleck other than to get on the anti-Andy bandwagon that is this forum. Schleck IS a rider and other than Contador is the most talented GC rider in this generation. The fact that he is as thick as two planks when it comes to tactics does not merit the hate on this forum.

 

[jordan5000]

2013 will be the 100th edition of the tour, so I imagine they'll place lots of big mountains in there to celebrate the anniversary and if they do I think Andy can win.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

2013 will be the 100th edition of the tour, so I imagine they'll place lots of big mountains in there to celebrate the anniversary and if they do I think Andy can win.

meh. I wouldn't be surprised if they bocthed that up also.
I'd expect another 100km of tting.

 

[gregrowlerson]

meh. I wouldn't be surprised if they bocthed that up also.
I'd expect another 100km of tting.

They will celebrate it with numerous 'Pau' type mountain stages, and the biggie...

The penultimate stage will finish on the torturous hors category Arcallis

 

[boardhanger]

Ullrich is a TDF Champion.

 

[Fatclimber]

Impossible to drop the clinic issues pertaining to this particular topic:

Ulrich, currently under investigation, maybe he loses all his seconds and the win.

Schleck, may have already won one, eliminating one of his seconds due to alberto's current investigation.

The results of the current Armstrong investigation could drop off 4 of ulrich's seconds and change them to wins.

Maybe a better poll would be how many second places Andy and Jan will have in six months. Interesting.