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Power Data Estimates for the climbing stages

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SirLes said:
Thanks Alex.
One question. How much difference does drafting make? When I see old footage of the tour the main riders seem to spend a lot more time on the front.
Obviously less when climbing than on flat terrain. I am quoting solo ride times, no drafting.

You can expect a 20-30% reduction in drag when drafting closely. In terms of climbing power (using same 8% gradient assumptions I listed earlier), that equates to a 1.8% - 2.6% reduction in power to sustain same climbing speed.

Obviously without knowing how much drafting is involved in every race scenario over the years, this is part of the overall variability we can't really measure.
 
Sep 8, 2009
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
there is no overdoing it. i would put my hands on fire for what i said
check fignon's book and what he says about 1993 tour and the storming speeds. by the way, pla d'adet was after 7 hours!! and around 5 cols.

while mig,hampsten,millar and co were sprinting up the la bonette, fignon, one hour back, admired the view one more time and retired from cycling.
i don't believe hampsten same like i don't believe lemond. the difference is that i believe lemond never did blood medicines.


yesterday was very short but extremely,extremely fast. for example the big guns group already climbed val louron at almost 6 w/kg. portillon i know that it was fast. and the first hour at 50 kmph.
 
Alex Simmons/RST said:
Table of TDF winner's bike weight:
http://felixwong.com/2010/11/tour-de-france-bicycles-historical-bike-weights/

Today's winner's bikes are on average 3kg lighter than that used in that earlier era. Not sure about the rest of the kit (shoes, clothes, bidons etc) but hard to believe it would be heavier now (although compulsory helmets now).

If I use a 3kg difference in equipment weight, then the power difference for those speeds narrows a little more to 5.5% (give or take).

Don't know about everyone else, but 5% more power compared with 30-40 years ago when choosing from a better and larger talent pool who have much greater support and resources at their disposal, with much better training regimes, targeted plans, power meters, superior diet/nutrition and so on isn't out of the realms of plausible.

Doesn't rule out doping either.
Thank you Alex, very good series of posts.

Biggest problem with many in the clinic is not that they think people are doping but what they put forward as evidence to back their claims and that doping is the only possible reason for any sort of improvement/decline.

I don't think 30/40 years ago, teams really had riders to set pace on the final climbs the way it happens now, usually by the time they got to the final climb, it was usually just the heads of state.
 
Aug 12, 2012
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Despite de short stage of yerterday, Pla d Adet record remains on 90 s.. when now it supossed to improve that becouse a lot of factors that previous post mentions

Today is a good test, for those people that said that Froome on Ax 3 Domaines last year, 3th best time was amazing.. they didnt mind if that time is the first mountain stage, the day chosen for the strongest to clear up things, so for those people today dont mind if is a stage at the end of the tour...

Anyway, is a very short stage today...just 145 kms, and some teams as AG2r or FdJ ar going to fight seriously for the podium...so, should be expected a good and for today

Wind is slighty tailwind in hautacam, we could say is not a factor, or a factor that help... in Tourmalet will be headwind.
 
Jul 29, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
Biggest problem with many in the clinic is not that they think people are doping but what they put forward as evidence to back their claims and that doping is the only possible reason for any sort of improvement/decline.
This.

10 char
 
Aug 12, 2012
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Less than 37 in Hautacam is difficult to justify, even in a short stage, even nowadays with all the advances, even with tailwind, even if from the base of the climb a team works strong and one strong leader perform alone the last kms...even with all of that would be difficult,...

I can believe Cobo or Fran Schleck 37.30, 37:58, but not the rest of the top 50, and of course not the times of Riis, Leblanc, 34, 35 min...

http://www.climbing-records.com/

Even 36:20 from Lance on the rain, with people without team a lot of kms...a solo effort...that is not the same that if Jeanesson put a hard step for 5 kms till 4 kms to the finish.

.
 
Taxus4a said:
Despite de short stage of yerterday, Pla d Adet record remains on 90 s.. when now it supossed to improve that becouse a lot of factors that previous post mentions

Today is a good test, for those people that said that Froome on Ax 3 Domaines last year, 3th best time was amazing.. they didnt mind if that time is the first mountain stage, the day chosen for the strongest to clear up things, so for those people today dont mind if is a stage at the end of the tour...

Anyway, is a very short stage today...just 145 kms, and some teams as AG2r or FdJ ar going to fight seriously for the podium...so, should be expected a good and for today

Wind is slighty tailwind in hautacam, we could say is not a factor, or a factor that help... in Tourmalet will be headwind.
And the only times faster than Froome was the day after a rest day and without Pailhères before...
 
Aug 12, 2012
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Netserk said:
And the only times faster than Froome was the day after a rest day and without Pailhères before...
People talk about similar time with Ulle, Lance, zubeldia, etc, in the EPO time...but that day was at the end of a very hard Tour, with extreme hot...you cant compare that,
there is not a lot of times climbing to Ax 3 domaines,and of course, even with doping , for Laiseka is difficult to get the time of the best riders now.

if Froome would have down a minute the best time ever, you can say that is somtheing wrong there, but it not the case, you compare year by year and it is normal. if Purito didnt crash two days before he would have been with him.. the same if quintana woudnt attack in Pailheres.
 
Taxus4a said:
People talk about similar time with Ulle, Lance, zubeldia, etc, in the EPO time...but that day was at the end of a very hard Tour, with extreme hot...you cant compare that,
there is not a lot of times climbing to Ax 3 domaines,and of course, even with doping , for Laiseka is difficult to get the time of the best riders now.

if Froome would have down a minute the best time ever, you can say that is somtheing wrong there, but it not the case, you compare year by year and it is normal. if Purito didnt crash two days before he would have been with him.. the same if quintana woudnt attack in Pailheres.
It was the first stage after the first rest day, not the end of the Tour. Last year they had 7 stages in their legs and Pailhères just before, unlike 2001 with a much easier run-in. Stop being disingenuous.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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pmcg76 said:
Biggest problem with many in the clinic is not that they think people are doping but what they put forward as evidence to back their claims and that doping is the only possible reason for any sort of improvement/decline.
SirLes said:
Seems more likely than pineapple juice and pillows, or post-stage warm downs.

Here's Horner dropping everyone except Nibali. Sorry no you're right, it's light bikes, better roads and power meters that explain why he's able to do that.

Or something. :rolleyes:
 
May 27, 2012
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Dear Wiggo said:
Seems more likely than pineapple juice and pillows, or post-stage warm downs.

Here's Horner dropping everyone except Nibali. Sorry no you're right, it's light bikes, better roads and power meters that explain why he's able to do that.

Or something. :rolleyes:
See, now we're on common ground.
 
Aug 12, 2012
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Bumeington said:
Nibali ~ 6.2 W/kg
Peraud ~ 5.8 (full draft) - 6 (no draft) W/kg
Wich time?

He has been almost three minutes worse than Riis but I coudnt take correctly time at the start...and Riis is already long time ago...

Of course it could be clean, difficult to justify less than 37, possible, but start the disscusion, but more than that time is not a disscusion although is a 10 kms solo effort...
I think Cobo and Schleck as first clean riders, and Nibali I think that have made lees than that, so it is maybe the better clean time in Hautacam...so it is a strong performance, difficult to bet from Contador or Froome, but it is a possible performance, of course...it is worse time than Lance with rain, so...
 
Aug 16, 2011
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Race Radio said:
Nibali's time up Hautacam was 37:20 is 26th fastest. 2:42 slower then record of 34:38 by Bjarne Riis in 1996.
WOO! More proof of Nibali's cleanliness! The clean champion of the people has arrived! :p
 
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