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Power Data Estimates for the climbing stages

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Le breton

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Krzysztof_O said:
It can be seen that VO2max decrease is never bigger than air pressure decrease (for your info: air pressure at 1000 m is about 900 hPa (10% decrease vs sea level), at 3000 m about 700 hPa (30% decrease), at 5500 m about 500 hPa (50% decrease). It's basically proportional for lowest dots - almost linear dependency between air pressure and VO2max meaning that oxygen amount being the bottleneck in human engine.

BTW: Holly, molly! Who had a 15% VO2max decrease at circa 5200 m ASL? Superman Lopez, Superman from Krypton or some extremaly unfit fatty?
Click to expand...
Clearly, among the 146 data points in this meta analysis, many are non sensical. Maybe the author could have spent some time weeding out the worse results.
 
Krzysztof_O

Krzysztof_O

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Le breton said:
Clearly, among the 146 data points in this meta analysis, many are non sensical. Maybe the author could have spent some time weeding out the worse results.
Click to expand...

I suppose a hypothetical person who has such a small VO2max decrease has a super-high blood cells content (a high mountain resident) and on top of that poor physical fitness (isn't able to utilize high oxygen amount circulating in his blood at a lower elevation).
 
Mayomaniac

Mayomaniac

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Krzysztof_O said:
It can be seen that VO2max decrease is never bigger than air pressure decrease (for your info: air pressure at 1000 m is about 900 hPa (10% decrease vs sea level), at 3000 m about 700 hPa (30% decrease), at 5500 m about 500 hPa (50% decrease). It's basically proportional for lowest dots - almost linear dependency between air pressure and VO2max meaning that oxygen amount being the bottleneck in human engine.

BTW: Holly, molly! Who had a 15% VO2max decrease at circa 5200 m ASL? Superman Lopez, Superman from Krypton or some extremaly unfit fatty?
Click to expand...
Oscar Soliz or some other crazy Bolivian cyclist. ;)
 
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Shakes

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Interesting article on Pogacar.


What is funny is that this is far beyond what was deemed possible just a few years ago. Anything above 6.5, I believe, was deemed impossible. Now you are just called greatest cyclist ever and admired, instead of question marks. Geraint is ridiculed for not attacking him for instance... Odd times.
 
Froome

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Shakes said:
Interesting article on Pogacar.


What is funny is that this is far beyond what was deemed possible just a few years ago. Anything above 6.5, I believe, was deemed impossible. Now you are just called greatest cyclist ever and admired, instead of question marks. Geraint is ridiculed for not attacking him for instance... Odd times.
Click to expand...
The article is incorrect since they are using Arensman data to make predictions, but the problem is the strava of Arensman was incorrec because he had problems with the weight. He had more 4/5 kg than his normal weight.
 
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Peyroteo94

Peyroteo94

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Shakes said:
Interesting article on Pogacar.


What is funny is that this is far beyond what was deemed possible just a few years ago. Anything above 6.5, I believe, was deemed impossible. Now you are just called greatest cyclist ever and admired, instead of question marks. Geraint is ridiculed for not attacking him for instance... Odd times.
Click to expand...
He probably did something close to 6.2 w/kg on Grappa. Arensman said he gained weight during the Giro, almost 5 kg heavier. I'm not saying Pogi is not doping, of course he is but 6.5 w/kg is an all time performance, being in the same league as Riis in Hautacum.
 
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Shakes

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Shakes said:
Interesting article on Pogacar.


What is funny is that this is far beyond what was deemed possible just a few years ago. Anything above 6.5, I believe, was deemed impossible. Now you are just called greatest cyclist ever and admired, instead of question marks. Geraint is ridiculed for not attacking him for instance... Odd times.
Click to expand...
lanternerouge.com

Greatest Climbing Performances Of All-Time on Plateau de Beille | Tour de France 2024 Stage 15 - Lanterne Rouge

Tadej Pogačar and Jonas Vingegaard both did the best and second-best climbing performance of all time on the Plateau de Beille climb, making this the greatest climbing stage of all time.
lanternerouge.com lanternerouge.com

Pogačar did 6.98 ᵉW/Kg for 39:50 min, which is by far the greatest climbing performance ever, taking into account conditions and the stage difficulty. Sea normalised power for this historic effort is 7.27 ᵉW/Kg. Pogačar’s adjusted altitude score was 696, which means this performance was equivalent to pushing 6.96 ᵉW/Kg for 60 minutes at sea level. Jonas Vingegaard, despite losing 68 seconds did the second-greatest climbing performance of all time. The Dane did 6.85 ᵉW/Kg for 40:58 min. His altitude score was the second highest in history with 685. Until today, Marco Pantani’s Alpe d’Huez in 1997 was the best in history. Remco Evenepoel lost 2:51 min on a climb to Pogačar, but his performance still was the 23rd best of all-time as he pushed 6.53 ᵉW/Kg for 42:41, which for sea level normalised is 6.81 ᵉW/Kg. Evenepoel’s performance still is the third best in the 21st century. Pogačar’s Stage 14 effort on Pla d’Adet is the fourth best.

---

Again, just a few years ago many people in the know stated this would be impossible (excess of 6.5wkg) Now it's just admired? I am confused. It also was not done on an easy stage but after huge energy expenditure.
 
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danielovichdk2

danielovichdk2

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No journalists working on anything doping related ? At least in Denmark the journalists are a breed of fans with a consistent view around that sport has changed.

We might not know the name of the fuel the riders drive on but there is absolutely no intelligence in stating they beat records by doped to gills riders such as Pantani, Ulrich and Lance.

I urge everyone to reach out to their respective sports journalists and ask them to dig deeper.
 
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meat puppet

meat puppet

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Yeah, Tucker used to post good stuff during the tours. As did veloclinic.

Many things can of course be explained away for the general public, but ultimately the oxygen cost implied by the performances cannot. Ok, one can muddy the waters a bit by making assumptions about rider efficiency and also fractional utilisation during say 40min effort, but the ballpark yielded will tell the story anyway.
 
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Simurgh

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Shakes said:
lanternerouge.com

Greatest Climbing Performances Of All-Time on Plateau de Beille | Tour de France 2024 Stage 15 - Lanterne Rouge

Tadej Pogačar and Jonas Vingegaard both did the best and second-best climbing performance of all time on the Plateau de Beille climb, making this the greatest climbing stage of all time.
lanternerouge.com lanternerouge.com

Pogačar did 6.98 ᵉW/Kg for 39:50 min, which is by far the greatest climbing performance ever, taking into account conditions and the stage difficulty. Sea normalised power for this historic effort is 7.27 ᵉW/Kg. Pogačar’s adjusted altitude score was 696, which means this performance was equivalent to pushing 6.96 ᵉW/Kg for 60 minutes at sea level. Jonas Vingegaard, despite losing 68 seconds did the second-greatest climbing performance of all time. The Dane did 6.85 ᵉW/Kg for 40:58 min. His altitude score was the second highest in history with 685. Until today, Marco Pantani’s Alpe d’Huez in 1997 was the best in history. Remco Evenepoel lost 2:51 min on a climb to Pogačar, but his performance still was the 23rd best of all-time as he pushed 6.53 ᵉW/Kg for 42:41, which for sea level normalised is 6.81 ᵉW/Kg. Evenepoel’s performance still is the third best in the 21st century. Pogačar’s Stage 14 effort on Pla d’Adet is the fourth best.

---

Again, just a few years ago many people in the know stated this would be impossible (excess of 6.5wkg) Now it's just admired? I am confused. It also was not done on an easy stage but after huge energy expenditure.
Click to expand...
www.dr.dk

Vingegaard placerer sin og Pogacars præstation blandt de bedste nogensinde

Jonas Vingegaard og hans faste slovenske konkurrent leverede tider på søndagens afgørende stigning, der slog rekorder.
www.dr.dk www.dr.dk

Vingo to Danish media about yesterday: "The other guys on the team have said, that people have estimated how many W/Kg we (himself and Pog) have pushed, and [the estimates]- to put it bluntly - is very accurate".
 
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Valv.Piti

Valv.Piti

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