Power Data Estimates for the climbing stages

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Winterfold

Winterfold

Jul 30, 2009
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Thanks halamala for the stats and interview quotes.

In other threads people are still sticking to their beliefs that riders many minutes down who cannot put out Wiggin's power will somehow beat him. Through the mysterious powers of panache I guess.

I guess he will know his power output exactly for the climb as he will have it on his SRM readout and be riding strictly to his limits.
 
L

Le breton

Nov 10, 2009
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acoggan Quote:Originally Posted by Le breton

So we only have one study on 27 subjects to support the claim that there are large variations in response to altitude.

No, there are dozens

Fair enough, however you only gave us ONE study really relevant to the question at hand.
 
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slcbiker

May 12, 2009
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Not exactly a 1 to 1 comparison, as they are generally talking about much higher altitudes, but it is pretty well accepted in the high altitude mountaineering world that certain folks do much better at altitudes above 5000m. I'd suspect there are at least a few studies on this to be found, though I don't feel like trawling thru Pubmed. Try research by Dr. Thomas Hornbein, who in addition to doing alot of high-altitude physiology research, also was one of the first Americans to summit Everest.
 
L

Le breton

Nov 10, 2009
1,599
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slcbiker said:
Not exactly a 1 to 1 comparison, as they are generally talking about much higher altitudes, but it is pretty well accepted in the high altitude mountaineering world that certain folks do much better at altitudes above 5000m. I'd suspect there are at least a few studies on this to be found, though I don't feel like trawling thru Pubmed. Try research by Dr. Thomas Hornbein, who in addition to doing alot of high-altitude physiology research, also was one of the first Americans to summit Everest.
Click to expand...

From what you wrote that Hornbein guy does not look like a very promising lead. Andy is a better lead I am sure but unfortunately he does not want to reveal his sources.
Thanks anyway.
 
kielbasa

kielbasa

Sep 13, 2010
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Sophistic said:
although the title of thread is ....on climbing stages, Chris Froomes srm file from the TT: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/sw/Z3JDD63H2UVGP77YSXNITPULAE
406 Watts(5.6w/kg). Now thats not a high number for a 2nd place finish, guy seems to have great aerodynamics and the strong head wind helped him (against the lighter competition) obviously as well.
Click to expand...

Wow, that's a low HR for a young guy (148 ave, 169 max). Huge stroke volume?
 
H

halamala

Jun 25, 2009
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Last 5 Km: Wiggins climbed 6.3 W/kg

Vuelta a Espana 2011, Stage 14, Final climb Lagos de Somiedo [last 5.0 Km]

Bradley Wiggins

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 473 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 5.0 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 928 = 24 min 22 sec = 15:28
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 72 kg [TeamSky.com]
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 9.4 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 19.3 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 80.0 kg

Power : 459.7 Watt
Power / kg : 6.3 Watt / kg

Source: [ http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm ]



Vuelta a Espana 2011, Stage 14, Final climb Lagos de Somiedo

Distance : last 5.0 Km , Grade 9.46 % , Elevation 473 m

Cobo 15:08 , 19.82 Kph , VAM 1875 m/h , 6,37 W/kg
Poels 15:23 , 19.50 Kph , VAM 1845 m/h , 6.26 W/kg
Wiggins, Froome, Mollema, Menchov 15:28 , 19.39 Kph , VAM 1835 m/h , 6.23 W/kg
----------
Taaramae 15:54 , 18.87 Kph , VAM 1785 m/h , 6.06 W/kg
----------
Nibali, Rodriguez 16:49 , 17.84 Kph , VAM 1688 m/h , 5.73 W/kg

Note: Dr. Michele Ferrari's formula.
 
goggalor

goggalor

Oct 16, 2009
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Oh dear. When Wiggins said he was riding like Indurain he wasn't kidding.

But all those power outputs are very high. Especially Taaramae's, who was in the break all day. Then again, he has been "resting" the last few days. Cobo's is just ridiculous, and it's crazy that Poels could jump away when Indur--I mean Wiggins was doing 6.3 W/kg. Also Nibali and Rodriguez definitely "cracked" a little yesterday, as they were behind a guy like Monfort at the finish. 5.7 W/kg is a lot to put out when bonking.

Maybe the effort being so short is inflating the numbers?
 
goggalor

goggalor

Oct 16, 2009
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Oh dear. When Wiggins said he was riding like Indurain he wasn't kidding.

But all those power outputs are very high. Especially Taaramae's, who was in the break all day. Then again, he has been "resting" the last few days. Cobo's is just ridiculous, and it's crazy that Poels could jump away when Indur--I mean Wiggins was doing 6.3 W/kg. Also Nibali and Rodriguez definitely "cracked" a little yesterday, as they were behind a guy like Monfort at the finish. 5.7 W/kg is a lot to put out when bonking.

Maybe the effort being so short is inflating the numbers? Contador climbed for about 20 minutes (?) at almost 6.8 W/kg on Verbier, while Armstrong did approximately 6.2-6.3 W/kg. Wiggins was 29 seconds ahead of Armstrong, so it's certainly nothing new for Wiggins to put out numbers well above what is considered dirty on longer climbs.
 
Escarabajo

Escarabajo

Apr 16, 2009
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halamala said:
Vuelta a Espana 2011, Stage 14, Final climb Lagos de Somiedo [last 5.0 Km]

Bradley Wiggins

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 473 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 5.0 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 928 = 24 min 22 sec = 15:28
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 72 kg [TeamSky.com]
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 9.4 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 19.3 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 80.0 kg

Power : 459.7 Watt
Power / kg : 6.3 Watt / kg

Source: [ http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm ]



Vuelta a Espana 2011, Stage 14, Final climb Lagos de Somiedo

Distance : last 5.0 Km , Grade 9.46 % , Elevation 473 m

Cobo 15:08 , 19.82 Kph , VAM 1875 m/h , 6,37 W/kg
Poels 15:23 , 19.50 Kph , VAM 1845 m/h , 6.26 W/kg
Wiggins, Froome, Mollema, Menchov 15:28 , 19.39 Kph , VAM 1835 m/h , 6.23 W/kg
----------
Taaramae 15:54 , 18.87 Kph , VAM 1785 m/h , 6.06 W/kg
----------
Nibali, Rodriguez 16:49 , 17.84 Kph , VAM 1688 m/h , 5.73 W/kg

Note: Dr. Michele Ferrari's formula.
Click to expand...
halamala,

Froome, in the Angliru please. Thanks.
 
H

halamala

Jun 25, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
All the 12 km. Not a portion, otherwise it would be hard to make any conclusions.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Ok. You have to wait about 60 minutes (I'm ready at 7.30pm GMT+0).
 
H

halamala

Jun 25, 2009
190
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Re-calculation - I had wrong elevation (I apologize)

Vuelta a Espana 2011, Stage 14, Final climb Lagos de Somiedo [last 5.0 Km]

Bradley Wiggins

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 440 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 5.0 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 928 = 24 min 22 sec = 15:28
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 72 kg [TeamSky.com]
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 8.8 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 19.3 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 80.0 kg

Power : 431.8 Watt
Power / kg : 5.9 Watt / kg

Source: [ http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm ]

Vuelta a Espana 2011, Stage 14, Final climb Lagos de Somiedo

Distance : last 5.0 Km , Grade 8.80 % , Elevation 440 m

Cobo 15:08 , 19.82 Kph , VAM 1744 m/h , 6,06 W/kg
Poels 15:23 , 19.50 Kph , VAM 1716 m/h , 5,95 W/kg
Wiggins, Froome, Mollema, Menchov 15:28 , 19.39 Kph , VAM 1707 m/h , 5,93 W/kg
----------
Taaramae 15:54 , 18.87 Kph , VAM 1660 m/h , 5,77 W/kg
----------
Nibali, Rodriguez 16:49 , 17.84 Kph , VAM 1570 m/h , 5.45 W/kg

Note: Dr. Michele Ferrari's formula.

halamala said:
Vuelta a Espana 2011, Stage 14, Final climb Lagos de Somiedo [last 5.0 Km]

Bradley Wiggins

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 473 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 5.0 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 928 = 24 min 22 sec = 15:28
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 72 kg [TeamSky.com]
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 9.4 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 19.3 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 80.0 kg

Power : 459.7 Watt
Power / kg : 6.3 Watt / kg

Source: [ http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm ]



Vuelta a Espana 2011, Stage 14, Final climb Lagos de Somiedo

Distance : last 5.0 Km , Grade 9.46 % , Elevation 473 m

Cobo 15:08 , 19.82 Kph , VAM 1875 m/h , 6,37 W/kg
Poels 15:23 , 19.50 Kph , VAM 1845 m/h , 6.26 W/kg
Wiggins, Froome, Mollema, Menchov 15:28 , 19.39 Kph , VAM 1835 m/h , 6.23 W/kg
----------
Taaramae 15:54 , 18.87 Kph , VAM 1785 m/h , 6.06 W/kg
----------
Nibali, Rodriguez 16:49 , 17.84 Kph , VAM 1688 m/h , 5.73 W/kg

Note: Dr. Michele Ferrari's formula.
Click to expand...
 
H

halamala

Jun 25, 2009
190
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Vuelta a Espana 2011, Stage 15, Final climb Angliru [from '6 Km banner' to 'mountain points banner' = Distance 5.5 Km]

Juan Jose Cobo 23:01
Wout Poels 23:49 [estimation]
Denis Menchov 23:49 [estimation]
Chris Froome 23:49 [estimation]
Bradley Wiggins 24:22 [estimation]

2000 Roberto Heras 21:58 [record time]
2002 Roberto Heras 22:29
2008 Alberto Contador 23:09

Cobo (2011) 8 seconds faster than Contador (2008)

More later...
 
Zoncolan

Zoncolan

Apr 1, 2009
1,488
0
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halamala said:
Re-calculation - I had wrong elevation (I apologize)

Vuelta a Espana 2011, Stage 14, Final climb Lagos de Somiedo [last 5.0 Km]

Bradley Wiggins

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 440 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 5.0 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 928 = 24 min 22 sec = 15:28
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 72 kg [TeamSky.com]
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 8.8 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 19.3 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 80.0 kg

Power : 431.8 Watt
Power / kg : 5.9 Watt / kg

Source: [ http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm ]

Vuelta a Espana 2011, Stage 14, Final climb Lagos de Somiedo

Distance : last 5.0 Km , Grade 8.80 % , Elevation 440 m

Cobo 15:08 , 19.82 Kph , VAM 1744 m/h , 6,06 W/kg
Poels 15:23 , 19.50 Kph , VAM 1716 m/h , 5,95 W/kg
Wiggins, Froome, Mollema, Menchov 15:28 , 19.39 Kph , VAM 1707 m/h , 5,93 W/kg
----------
Taaramae 15:54 , 18.87 Kph , VAM 1660 m/h , 5,77 W/kg
----------
Nibali, Rodriguez 16:49 , 17.84 Kph , VAM 1570 m/h , 5.45 W/kg

Note: Dr. Michele Ferrari's formula.
Click to expand...

That seems more believable.
 
H

halamala

Jun 25, 2009
190
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Froome climbed 5.9-6.0 W/kg

Escarabajo said:
All the 12 km. Not a portion, otherwise it would be hard to make any conclusions.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Vuelta a Espana 2011, Stage 15, Final climb, Angliru

From 12.0 Km remaining to mountain points banner 0.5 Km remaining = Distance 11.5 Km

Chris Froome

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 1194 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 11.5 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 2401 = 40 min 01 sec = 40:01
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 72 kg [TeamSky.com]
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 10.3 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 17.2 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 80.0 kg

Power : 436.2 Watt
Power / kg : 6.0 Watt / kg

From 12.0 Km remaining to the finish line = Distance 12.0 Km [last 500 m is descent]

Chris Froome

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 1194 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 12.0 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 2450 = 40 min 50 sec = 40:50
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 72 kg [TeamSky.com]
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 9.9 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 17.6 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 80.0 kg

Power : 430.7 Watt
Power / kg : 5.9 Watt / kg

Source: [ http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm ]
 
Winterfold

Winterfold

Jul 30, 2009
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I just can't buy Cobo being faster than Contador - especially when that 2008 time by Contador looked like one his bike strapped to Saturn V efforts
 
G

gilbertador

May 19, 2011
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Zoncolan said:
Cobo's numbers anyone? Must be at 6.2 or so, if Froome was at 6?:confused:
Click to expand...

Yeah something similar, maybe 6.3 - 6.4 ish, Cobos style of pedalling is amazing he was so clean on that tiny gear and i think that made big gains which is in his favour, theres no way in hell he should beat Contador though, just seems so wrong, id bet an awful lot on cobo being dirty
 
Rechtschreibfehler

Rechtschreibfehler

Mar 19, 2009
3,232
3,185
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Winterfold said:
I just can't buy Cobo being faster than Contador - especially when that 2008 time by Contador looked like one his bike strapped to Saturn V efforts
Click to expand...

The 2008 stage was about 60k longer and hat 2 Cat 1 climbes more in it.
I didn't check it, but I belive that the route of the 2008 wasn't as ridiculously easy as this one was untill now.

Im not arguing Cobo's clean (that would be very very very surprising considering who he's riding for), but I believe his time being fast than Contadors can be explained without doping considerations.
 
Polish

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
3,853
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Does a rider generate less power spinning a lower gear versus mashing a higher gear assuming both speeds are the same?

Or is the power the same regardless of gearing?
 
H

halamala

Jun 25, 2009
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Cobo climbed 6.1-6.2 W/kg

Zoncolan said:
Cobo's numbers anyone? Must be at 6.2 or so, if Froome was at 6?:confused:
Click to expand...
Vuelta a Espana 2011, Stage 15, Final climb, Angliru

From 12.0 Km remaining to mountain points banner 0.5 Km remaining = Distance 11.5 Km

Juan Jose Cobo

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 1194 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 11.5 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 2353 = 39 min 13 sec = 39:13
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 69 kg
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 10.3 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 17.5 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 77.0 kg

Power : 430.6 Watt
Power / kg : 6.2 Watt / kg

From 12.0 Km remaining to the finish line = Distance 12.0 Km [last 500 m is descent]

Juan Jose Cobo

Elevation / Höhenmeter [m] : 1194 m
Distance / Streckenlänge [Km] : 12.0 Km
Time in seconds / Fahrzeit in Sekunden [sec] : 2402 = 40 min 02 sec = 40:02
Weight rider / Gewicht Fahrer [kg] : 69 kg
Weight bicycle, clothes etc. / Gewicht Fahrrad [kg] : 8 kg

Grade / mittlere Seigung : 9.9 %
Average speed / mittlere Geschwindigkeit : 17.9 Km/h
Total weight / Gesamtgewicht : 77.0 kg

Power : 425.1 Watt
Power / kg : 6.1 Watt / kg

Source: [ http://www.rst.mp-all.de/bergauf.htm ]
 
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